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#6552331 - 11/20/16 09:44 PM Need advice on young pointer that is not pointing
pharmvet Online   content
Pro Tracker

Registered: 11/10/07
Posts: 1094
Loc: North East Tx

NorthTXbirdhunter


"I sold a derby male setter to a guy one time before season, telling him that the dog was not broke at all. Well, about the end of December, he calls me and tells me that he wants his money back. When I asked why, he told me that this was the sorriest dog he had ever had because he ran up 18 coveys of birds that weekend. When I asked him how many his grown dogs pointed, he told me either 2 or 3. Man, a smile came on my face like never before. I gave him his money back graciously and hunted the dog another 12 seasons. I had him holding his birds well before the end of that particular season. Ol' Doc probably had a couple of thousand quail and pheasants killed in front of him. But it just shows you that a good pup will practically beg you to break them. Patience and lots of birds are the key. Plus, you have to recognize what you are looking at."


Ok, I think I've got one of these. She has tons of prey drive and is "great" at finding dead birds. She even brings most of them to me. However.........she is not pointing!😁 found and ran through SEVERAL coveys today.
I'm concerned. She is 7-8 months old. I would love to know what you did with the pup you mentioned above. My other pup that is not related but same age is pointing already.
Anyone else have a pointer that was slow to point but ended up making a good dog?

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#6552346 - 11/20/16 10:02 PM Re: Need advice on young pointer that is not pointing [Re: pharmvet]
cattle69 Offline
Pro Tracker

Registered: 02/15/06
Posts: 1515
Loc: san angelo
Keep her going and it will finally click. Some just take longer than others, the fact she is finding the birds is most important. The more she runs through the quicker she will finally learn she can't catch them.
_________________________

President and cofounder of magical pellet club.

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#6552386 - 11/20/16 10:59 PM Re: Need advice on young pointer that is not pointing [Re: pharmvet]
Mundo Offline
Woodsman

Registered: 02/03/15
Posts: 117
You don't really have a problem; you just have a young inexperienced dog. Keep her on wild birds. Let her run through them--never shoot--don't scold her. This is normal. Pups don't progress at the same rate so I wouldn't assume there is a problem with this pup because your other pup learned faster--it happens.
If you have access to pigeons and a launcher put her on them, launch them as soon as she gets scent -- before she points. Pointing is instinctive behavior. You can hasten a dogs pointing by frustrating them with pigeons flushed when they get scent and try to get close. When a dog learns they can't catch flush birds they will slow down, stalk and point. She will get there, but it may take most of the season on wild birds. Let her have fun, let her chase don't shoot or she will get the idea that she can flush coveys for you to kill. Don't whoa her on birds--just use that command to stop her in the field but not to stop her on birds. When she does stand for birds don't say anything--young dogs on point will often take your voice as a release and move--you don't want that.
She will come around--the more birds she sees the sooner it will be. Also, dogs that point planted birds will often bust wild birds for awhile --- wild birds are less predictable and won't let the dog get close like they can with planted birds.


Edited by Mundo (11/20/16 11:01 PM)

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#6552388 - 11/20/16 11:00 PM Re: Need advice on young pointer that is not pointing [Re: pharmvet]
MS1454 Online   content
Veteran Tracker

Registered: 01/27/08
Posts: 2703
Loc: Houston/Sealy
7 to 8 months and not pointing is no reason to be concerned.
_________________________
Originally Posted By: Fooshman
I'll take a Black Female every time.


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#6552534 - 11/21/16 07:21 AM Re: Need advice on young pointer that is not pointing [Re: pharmvet]
bill oxner Online   content
THF Celebrity

Registered: 11/03/09
Posts: 32651
Loc: Richmond
I've had a couple that were slow to come around and went on to be great bird dogs. You might bring her in on a pointing dog with a CC. I've picked them up and carried them into the scent cone.
_________________________
Quail hunting is like walking into, and out of a beautiful painting all day long. Gene Hill




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#6552730 - 11/21/16 09:44 AM Re: Need advice on young pointer that is not pointing [Re: pharmvet]
MS1454 Online   content
Veteran Tracker

Registered: 01/27/08
Posts: 2703
Loc: Houston/Sealy
^^^^^ What Mundo said
_________________________
Originally Posted By: Fooshman
I'll take a Black Female every time.


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#6552763 - 11/21/16 10:07 AM Re: Need advice on young pointer that is not pointing [Re: pharmvet]
68rustbucket Offline
Tracker

Registered: 10/21/08
Posts: 579
Loc: San Marcos, TX
I had the same issue this weekend. I only got 1 point, where a large group of blues had been earlier. We had bumped the covey with truck. Pup was also easily distracted. Put her on ground, was distracted by older dog whining in box on truck.

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#6552992 - 11/21/16 12:36 PM Re: Need advice on young pointer that is not pointing [Re: pharmvet]
bill oxner Online   content
THF Celebrity

Registered: 11/03/09
Posts: 32651
Loc: Richmond
Does the pup point pen raised birds?
_________________________
Quail hunting is like walking into, and out of a beautiful painting all day long. Gene Hill




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#6553004 - 11/21/16 12:41 PM Re: Need advice on young pointer that is not pointing [Re: pharmvet]
68rustbucket Offline
Tracker

Registered: 10/21/08
Posts: 579
Loc: San Marcos, TX
according to trainer that had her for 3 months, yes. she did give one heck of a chase on birds that had been run through. I'll be contacting the trainer today.


Edited by 68rustbucket (11/21/16 12:56 PM)

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#6553193 - 11/21/16 02:58 PM Re: Need advice on young pointer that is not pointing [Re: pharmvet]
NorthTXbirdhunter Offline
Tracker

Registered: 03/17/11
Posts: 804
Loc: Rowlett, Texas
Pharmvet,
Patience, Patience, Patience. First of all, you are going to have to do some yard work with her. Has she been whoa trained yet or even a little bit? There are several ways to do this....i.e. pinch-collar and tugging at her from a center stake or walking here at heal, tugging and stopping on the command of whoa. I use the buddy-stick which is a pvc pipe with hook on it attached to her collar. Whoa her, lay the stick around in front of her, lay the pipe on the ground. Let her associate this whoa intimidation with the pipe, instead of you. Do this process for about a week. Secondly, if you have any pigeons or birds, go plant them in the field. Put the checkcord on her and lead her into the wind towards the bird. When you can tell she strikes, a light tug and Hup, stop her. Go into long flushing attempts and make her continue holding. If she breaks, start the process over. Pick her up off of her feet and softly plant her back from where she broke from. Make her hold the bird at point for a few minutes. Flush the bird and let her chase dragging the rope. Catch her and do it again and again and again. Like I have said on here before, and contrary to popular belief, let her drag the rope in the field until she tells you to take it off of her...when she starts handling and holding point until flush. Use a stiffer, hard-core braided rope to let her pull. But like others have said, 7-8 months old is nothing to worry about. Be thankful that she is finding birds. Create your own scenarios. Hunt her by herself for a while. Be in control. She will figure it out with all the birds we have. But if you can catch her as soon after a bad bust as you can, pick her up off of her feet, and plant her back where she should have pointed and make her hold until you release her, she will finally get the hang. You are going to have to bond with her and get her attention. Pups are a work in progress and repetition of the right way is mandatory. But you can not expect total perfection out of a 8 month old pup. Let her have some fun, mature a little more, and then you can screw down on her a little tighter. By the end of February, you are going to see a noticeable difference if you can keep her in a few birds. Look for those opportunities to work with her and only her in the field. Let it be known that the next spotted covey is hers and only hers. Just the two of you and go make it happen in a controlled scenario. No other dogs, no other guns, just the two of you.


Edited by NorthTXbirdhunter (11/21/16 04:58 PM)

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#6553520 - 11/21/16 06:26 PM Re: Need advice on young pointer that is not pointing [Re: pharmvet]
bill oxner Online   content
THF Celebrity

Registered: 11/03/09
Posts: 32651
Loc: Richmond
I don't like to mix hunting and training. The pup will come around.

Delmar Smith had a way with words. He said that you should take them off birds and break them completely before putting them back in the field. Enjoy this season and break the pup befor you hunt it next year.
_________________________
Quail hunting is like walking into, and out of a beautiful painting all day long. Gene Hill




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#6553787 - 11/21/16 09:19 PM Re: Need advice on young pointer that is not pointing [Re: bill oxner]
NorthTXbirdhunter Offline
Tracker

Registered: 03/17/11
Posts: 804
Loc: Rowlett, Texas
Originally Posted By: bill oxner
I don't like to mix hunting and training. The pup will come around.

Delmar Smith had a way with words. He said that you should take them off birds and break them completely before putting them back in the field. Enjoy this season and break the pup befor you hunt it next year.


With all the wild birds we have this year, I would never miss a chance to train in the field while you hunt. You may never get to duplicate this scenario again. Wild birds are the ultimate to train on when available. You have to decide if you are going to hunt or train. Training wins every time for me. It gives me a lot more satisfaction! Break them under real conditions.

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#6554385 - 11/22/16 10:29 AM Re: Need advice on young pointer that is not pointing [Re: pharmvet]
Wacm Offline
Bird Dog

Registered: 05/13/16
Posts: 369
Loc: Wimberley, Tx
My dog started this way. I had her solid on whoa. One thing I did wrong was I was yelling whoa when she was on birds...that made her very nervous. I noticed how she looked nervous when she got in the scent cone.

Work her in the yard and whoa her make her hold while you talk easy to her and pet her a bit. Don't let her break till you say. Get to where you can whole her softly. It turns into a good thing for her and better for hunting situations anyway. I'm amazed how good my dog hears. I like to try to hunt as quite as possible.

Once you got that put her on pigeons in an auto launcher if you can. I'd have a CC on her. Whoa her as soon as she hits the scent. If she doesn't stop send the bird. If she stops, go to quite whoa and stand on the cord and pet her a bit. Praise her. Then step out front a bit and send the bird. Praise her. Repeat
This worked for me


Edited by Wacm (11/22/16 10:31 AM)

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#6554394 - 11/22/16 10:36 AM Re: Need advice on young pointer that is not pointing [Re: pharmvet]
Wacm Offline
Bird Dog

Registered: 05/13/16
Posts: 369
Loc: Wimberley, Tx
One thing I learned this year is how important it is to be able to position your dog. We were hunting and I'd see cover I liked so we would stand there and wait for her to run through. Twice she came in on the wrong side and busted birds.
Now I quietly whoa her and call her to me and then resend her where I want her. My last hunt I was in some really broken terrain and it really paid off.

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#6554409 - 11/22/16 10:49 AM Re: Need advice on young pointer that is not pointing [Re: pharmvet]
bill oxner Online   content
THF Celebrity

Registered: 11/03/09
Posts: 32651
Loc: Richmond
I'm hands off and mute.
_________________________
Quail hunting is like walking into, and out of a beautiful painting all day long. Gene Hill




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