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#6531844 - 11/07/16 07:34 PM rifles in APH/PHL areas
fishfree Online   content
Bird Dog

Registered: 10/08/11
Posts: 292
Loc: west texas
Please clear this up for me

In the Legal Game Box on the maps does the phrase "Shotguns with slugs or archery equipment may be used" imply that not only rifles can be used but now also slug guns and bows?

Under means restrictions it says
Quote:
"Except for General white tailed deer...firearms are restricted to shotguns with non-toxic shot or no larger than #4 lead"


I have always taken this to mean that ONLY shotguns (or archery) with slugs could be used on deer (no buck shot) and as far as other critters went lead shot no larger than #4 but in no way were rifles permitted since they were not specifically listed.

I am asking this because the ambiguity of the wording has been made apparent to me by an out-of-state hunter who read it that his choices were being broadened from just rifles to now include shotguns & archery for deer hunting.

But it has always been my understanding that to use a rifle on the PHL lands it had to say rifles may be used.

What say you?

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#6531873 - 11/07/16 07:47 PM Re: rifles in APH/PHL areas [Re: fishfree]
Palehorse Online   content
Extreme Tracker

Registered: 10/22/07
Posts: 4033
Loc: Surfside Beach, TX
What area are you wanting to know about?
_________________________
That which does not kill me only makes me more irritable.

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#6531930 - 11/07/16 08:16 PM Re: rifles in APH/PHL areas [Re: fishfree]
fishfree Online   content
Bird Dog

Registered: 10/08/11
Posts: 292
Loc: west texas
This is a general question any area where the Legal Game box & means & restrictions box are so worded as described above.

I believe that the

Quote:
"Except for General white tailed deer...firearms are restricted to shotguns with non-toxic shot or no larger than #4 lead"

I thought that the exception ("Except for General white tailed deer...") is that slugs are permitted for deer. But the out of stater believes the exception is the restriction to shotguns.

How do you interpret these statements?


Edited by fishfree (11/07/16 09:18 PM)

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#6532022 - 11/07/16 09:06 PM Re: rifles in APH/PHL areas [Re: fishfree]
Harrier Offline
Bird Dog

Registered: 10/31/11
Posts: 295
Loc: San Antonio
Originally Posted By: fishfree
Except for General white tailed deer...firearms are restricted to shotguns with non-toxic shot or no larger than #4 lead.
exception ("Except for General white tailed deer...") is that slugs are permitted for deer. But the out of stater believes the exception is the restriction to shotguns.

That isn't ambiguous at all. Firearms are restricted to shotguns.

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#6532034 - 11/07/16 09:16 PM Re: rifles in APH/PHL areas [Re: Harrier]
fishfree Online   content
Bird Dog

Registered: 10/08/11
Posts: 292
Loc: west texas
Originally Posted By: Harrier
Originally Posted By: fishfree
Except for General white tailed deer...firearms are restricted to shotguns with non-toxic shot or no larger than #4 lead.
exception ("Except for General white tailed deer...") is that slugs are permitted for deer. But the out of stater believes the exception is the restriction to shotguns.

That isn't ambiguous at all. Firearms are restricted to shotguns.


That is how I interpret it as well. I do think the wording should be
"ONLY Shotguns with slugs or archery equipment may be used"

"Shotguns may be used" does not seem to adequately make it clear that rifles may not be used.

I have seen some PHL maps that made no mention of means to take game which I suppose would permit hunting by rifle or any legal means.

The area in question is Twin Buttes, newly added. It was, under city control, restricted to buckshot for deer- no rifles (not even 22's) or any kind of handgun was permitted to be fired out there. When the state took it over they banned buck shot in favor of slugs and I thought the restriction to shotguns still applied.

I bring this up not to be picky about word-smithing but because the penalties for being wrong can be pretty severe these days.


Edited by fishfree (11/07/16 09:24 PM)

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#6532180 - 11/07/16 11:58 PM Re: rifles in APH/PHL areas [Re: fishfree]
Sniper John Online   happy

gumshoe

Registered: 08/31/05
Posts: 16302
Loc: North Texas
General Deer season you may only use Archery or Shotguns with slugs.
For small game your restricted to shotguns with non-toxic shot or no larger than #4 lead.
There is no rifle hunting of any kind allowed on Twin Buttes.
http://tpwd.texas.gov/huntwild/hunt/public/annual_public_hunting/resources/502.pdf

If any unit does not specifically say rifle hunting is allowed for something, then rifle hunting is not allowed.
http://tpwd.texas.gov/huntwild/hunt/public/annual_public_hunting/need-to-know/#legalGame

Twin Buttes PHL
Unit #502

LEGAL GAME Box • 2016-2017
White-tailed Deer: Bag limit - 1 buck and 1 antlerless (all seasons
combined)..
Archery Only: Oct. 1-Nov. 4
General: Nov. 5-Jan. 1. Shotguns with slugs or archery
equipment may be used.

Means Restriction: Except for General
White-tailed Deer, Exotic Mammal, and Feral
Hog hunts, firearms are restricted to shotguns
with non-toxic shot or no larger than #4 lead
shot for small game.

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#6532282 - 11/08/16 06:43 AM Re: rifles in APH/PHL areas [Re: fishfree]
upsslim Offline
Bird Dog

Registered: 10/10/13
Posts: 434
Loc: Cooper, TX
I talked to a GW about scouting an area which is bow only. I asked about carrying a .22 for snakes. I was told "no" you can not carry a .22 or any kind of rifle or pistol into the area. If you go into an area carry only what the book says.
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East Texas
Patriot Guard Rider
Flag Captain

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#6532469 - 11/08/16 08:31 AM Re: rifles in APH/PHL areas [Re: Sniper John]
fishfree Online   content
Bird Dog

Registered: 10/08/11
Posts: 292
Loc: west texas
SniperJohn,

Yes I see that it says a shotgun may be used. And in the link you provided there is a statement
Quote:
If a species or season is not listed in the Legal Game Legend, there is no hunting allowed for that species or by that particular means on the unit.
but there is no corresponding statement regarding means i.e. If a means (shotgun, slingshot etc) is not listed in the Legal Game Legend, there is no hunting allowed by that particular means on the unit. ... that is (sorta) understood by some of us. I assumed it for TB because that is the way it was before the state took over.

I think it is understood by you, by me and others that the legal game box should be read as "deer may be hunted with shotguns/slugs" or "deer may may only be hunted with ... BUT that is not what is written. And then there is the case where no means of taking game is mentioned at all. The sample Legal Game Legend in the link you provided makes no mention of any means to take game under the General Season. So how is that to be interpreted regarding shotguns/rifles?

Somewhere in the booklet there may be some default restrictions that apply but I can't find it.

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#6532484 - 11/08/16 08:39 AM Re: rifles in APH/PHL areas [Re: upsslim]
fishfree Online   content
Bird Dog

Registered: 10/08/11
Posts: 292
Loc: west texas
Originally Posted By: upsslim
I talked to a GW about scouting an area which is bow only. I asked about carrying a .22 for snakes. I was told "no" you can not carry a .22 or any kind of rifle or pistol into the area. If you go into an area carry only what the book says.


supposedly if you have an LTC you can carry a handgun for self defense according to the law- you may still have to fight a court battle even if you are in the right. State agencies, like Federal agencies sometimes 'interpret' the written law 180 degrees out of sync. For example state law says you may open carry a handgun when engaged in any outdoor activity where it would customarily be used- a lot of people may have grown up carrying a .22 pistol for snakes when bank fishing but there is no guarantee that the TPWD will see a gun as customary to fishing.

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#6532897 - 11/08/16 11:53 AM Re: rifles in APH/PHL areas [Re: fishfree]
upsslim Offline
Bird Dog

Registered: 10/10/13
Posts: 434
Loc: Cooper, TX
Originally Posted By: fishfree
Originally Posted By: upsslim
I talked to a GW about scouting an area which is bow only. I asked about carrying a .22 for snakes. I was told "no" you can not carry a .22 or any kind of rifle or pistol into the area. If you go into an area carry only what the book says.


supposedly if you have an LTC you can carry a handgun for self defense according to the law- you may still have to fight a court battle even if you are in the right. State agencies, like Federal agencies sometimes 'interpret' the written law 180 degrees out of sync. For example state law says you may open carry a handgun when engaged in any outdoor activity where it would customarily be used- a lot of people may have grown up carrying a .22 pistol for snakes when bank fishing but there is no guarantee that the TPWD will see a gun as customary to fishing.


I'd rather be safe than sorry. When you are on a WMA what the GW says is the law.
_________________________
East Texas
Patriot Guard Rider
Flag Captain

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