I am all for antler restrictions but I don't like the 13 inch rule. Its not always easy to tell especially for the kids. Missouri has a rule that is 4 points on one side. I like it a lot more because that is easier to tell and you can know 100% he is legal over I think he is. What is yalls opinion?

Agree 100%, although neither is a perfect system. In a perfect system everyone would just shoot older bucks and let the young ones walk, but that is just not feasible. 4 points on one side is quick and easy to judge in the field, and should accomplish the same thing that the 13" rule does.

I don't like it. I agree its too hard for kids or first time hunters.

I think AR's have done the job that they were intended for, to increase the number of mature bucks. I believe the regs should be modified to allow one buck of any size and one spike. Personally, I won't shoot any buck that isn't fully mature and well outside the current 13" minimum. JMO.

Restrictions based on points don't protect the smaller, basket-racked bucks that should be at the top of the "don't shoot" list.

True but I have multiple deer right now that are mature but have a screwed up antler on one side that makes him shy of 13 inches

Check with your local game warden. Our's does his best to follow the spirit of why AR's were created and allows some "fudging" on older bucks.

THIS!!!

So now you want to allow "hunters" to pretty much wipe out the progress that has been made by the modification you want? Even IF you only shot mature deer history says that most hunters will shoot the first legal buck or doe that walks out so with your modification within a couple of years the deer herd would be right back to where it was when ARs were first rolled out.

I know the hunting has improved a lot since ARs were introduced where I hunt. That location it protects the 1.5 year old bucks and most of the 2.5 year old bucks giving many more 3 and older bucks since only a few smart ones got to reach anywhere near maturity before ARs went into effect.

It is far from a perfect system but so many hunters have trouble aging deer that an age restriction would not work. I would not be opposed to a youth hunter the rule not applying to for one buck a year or at least on youth weekends.

I like them where we hunt. I have yet to see a mature deer on our place that was not outside of the ears. Sure not everyone shoots a buck every year but we have plenty of does for meat or a spike for that matter. It keeps the ground shrinkage shooters from shooting any buck like happened before the ARs. We don't pay over $1,700 and have plenty of turkey and pigs to go around.

I have hunted ranches where you don't have or want ARs but they are big places and you do need to take out a narrow rack every now and then. I just don't see those on our place luckily otherwise I would want a plan to remove them.

As far as first time hunters, I hunted a long time before I shot a mature buck. I shot does and pigs in the meantime but I like to hunt. Only exception I would see would possibly be kids but they aren't the ones paying so you can't screw the guys that are and shoot young bucks. Got to learn patience is the way I see it. We don't have a lot of mature deer though so the young ones need a chance to grow up.

That is not necessarily true. Or at least where I'm at. Your saying they would shoot the first deer they see but where I am at every 8 point I have seen has been at least 12 1/2 inches. So it wouldn't change drastically.

I'm not saying the AR's should be permanently suspended. They were put into effect once and they could bring them back at any time, depending upon deer numbers in any given area.

This. I have had to pass on several mature bucks that had obviously poor antlers that would be a good cull buck and could not shoot them due to AR. But AR restrictions do protect the smaller bucks that a lot of hunters would otherwise shoot. We have several new to fairly new hunters on our lease, and several have already shot 8 point bucks that are close to AR. Many hunters that I know would shoot the smaller bucks if it weren't for the AR rule. So yes, it does help in growing more mature bucks. Is the system perfect, no. But it is a good system to go by.

I used to get upset about shooters shooting small bucks before the AR rule. If all they saw was a small buck, they would shoot it. This was after we all agreed to a "management program" on our lease. It still bugs me a little that hunters shoot small bucks instead of a doe for meat, but who am I to say what they can or can not shoot. I stopped getting upset years ago after this. If the buck is legal and they want to shoot it, go for it. The small bucks are not for me, but they are meat for the hunter and an exciting kill for the newer hunters, and maybe the younger hunters.

Weird genetics on my place in Northern Parker County. A lot of narrow high racks. I watched a big mature 8 point for a couple of years that was high and very narrow. I don't think he would have been 12" at best. Body size he was signifigantly bigger than the other bucks on the place. He must have been a tough guy because the others bucks ran from him.

The last time I saw him was on camera, it appeared that his back leg was broken. It was swollen and angulated down near the first joint.

This is the whole problem. And while they're loading it they'll be moaning that they just don't have any big ones in that area, or it's the biggest one they saw (on opening morning).

I had a guy look at a mature deer in my truck one day and say 'Man, we don't have any like that.' I went over to his truck, and he had a nice 3.5 yr old 9pt with a 17" spread, probably 115" deer. Quite legal in any regard, but that same deer two years later might have been better than the one I shot.

Hunted a low fence lease in the hill country for 20 years. We fed year round. We were limited to what the property owner would let us do, pretty much blind counts and whatever our tags would allow. We spent ten years being picky about what bucks we shot and fill our 5 tags each with does for several years in a row. For about the last year we were on it and the next two or 3 years after we left they shot a deer or so a year in the 140's, completely unheard of as long as the 90 year old owner had been around the place (since birth). When we left the lease the doe harvest fell to almost zero and they shot several bucks a year. Now its been a year or so and there are no more pictures of mature deer and no more mature deer getting shot.