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PSA. Careful shooting stray exotics...
#6530856
11/07/16 05:40 PM
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Joined: Jul 2013
Posts: 7,179
therancher
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The "white deer" thread brought up an important subject all hunters need to be aware of.
It is common assumption that unmarked exotics are fair game to kill without restriction in Texas. That isn't true at all if you are talking about animals under the federally administrated CITES program.
For example, if one of my CITES regulated animals got out last spring through a water gap onto my neighbors ranch and he or one of his leasers killed it they would be liable for a felony if they didn't first obtain a CITES permit.
Since there are many areas in Texas that had water gaps wash out this year it would be prudent for hunters to know a tad more than "it's a white exotic" before pulling the trigger on an animal.
Elds deer, Arabian oryx, barashinga, red lechwe, are just some exotics that covered under the program. Most taxidermists and processors will know and ask for the permit if you bring one in. And by then it's wayyyy too late.
Just an FYI.
Crotchety old bastidge
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Re: PSA. Careful shooting stray exotics...
[Re: therancher]
#6530895
11/07/16 05:53 PM
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Joined: Aug 2012
Posts: 15,564
TexFlip
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I've had this conversation before and people are stuborn. Most I've talked to are in the "I'm not a biologist so if there's an exotic on my place, shame on it" mindset. I tell them their mindset will change when they're slapped with a fine for shooting a CITES animal.
Just to make sure that it is done thoroughly, I go both ways.
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Re: PSA. Careful shooting stray exotics...
[Re: TexFlip]
#6530949
11/07/16 06:13 PM
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Joined: Jul 2013
Posts: 7,179
therancher
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I've had this conversation before and people are stuborn. Most I've talked to are in the "I'm not a biologist so if there's an exotic on my place, shame on it" mindset. I tell them their mindset will change when they're slapped with a fine for shooting a CITES animal. And they can combine several violations to bring the total to a pretty high #. http://www.gc.noaa.gov/documents/gces/6-ESA/esa_1208.pdf
Crotchety old bastidge
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Re: PSA. Careful shooting stray exotics...
[Re: TexFlip]
#6531069
11/07/16 07:27 PM
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Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 21,617
pegasaurus
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I've had this conversation before and people are stuborn. Most I've talked to are in the "I'm not a biologist so if there's an exotic on my place, shame on it" mindset. I tell them their mindset will change when they're slapped with a fine for shooting a CITES animal. How do you know? What is the difference in an exotic that escaped a high fence and one that has been living "wild". The TPWD documents don't seem to differentiate. They only say that as long as the landowner where the animal is present gives permission then it is legal. What am I missing??
Funny thing about getting older: Your eyesight starts getting weaker but your ability to see through people's BS gets much better.
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Re: PSA. Careful shooting stray exotics...
[Re: pegasaurus]
#6531145
11/07/16 08:06 PM
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Joined: Aug 2012
Posts: 15,564
TexFlip
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I've had this conversation before and people are stuborn. Most I've talked to are in the "I'm not a biologist so if there's an exotic on my place, shame on it" mindset. I tell them their mindset will change when they're slapped with a fine for shooting a CITES animal. How do you know? What is the difference in an exotic that escaped a high fence and one that has been living "wild". The TPWD documents don't seem to differentiate. They only say that as long as the landowner where the animal is present gives permission then it is legal. What am I missing?? We aren't talking about ownership or permission. We're talking about shooting a federally protected animal.
Just to make sure that it is done thoroughly, I go both ways.
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Re: PSA. Careful shooting stray exotics...
[Re: therancher]
#6531175
11/07/16 08:14 PM
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Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 5,225
Rustler
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Point is, if you don't know what you're shooting at, don't shoot it.
I don't know if marking requirements applies to CITES also, but killing exotics that are properly identified by the owner aint no cake walk either.
Ag code Title 6 Sub title B Chapter 142
Sec. 142.0021 OWNERSHIP OF EXOTIC WILDLIFE AND FOWL. A person may claim to be the owner of exotic livestock or exotic fowl under this chapter only if the animal is tagged, branded, banded, or marked in another conspicuous manner that can be read or identified from a long distance and that identifies the animal as being the property of the claimant.
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Re: PSA. Careful shooting stray exotics...
[Re: TexFlip]
#6531223
11/07/16 08:36 PM
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Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 21,617
pegasaurus
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Point is, if you don't know what you're shooting at, don't shoot it.
I don't know if marking requirements applies to CITES also, but killing exotics that are properly identified by the owner aint no cake walk either.
Ag code Title 6 Sub title B Chapter 142
Sec. 142.0021 OWNERSHIP OF EXOTIC WILDLIFE AND FOWL. A person may claim to be the owner of exotic livestock or exotic fowl under this chapter only if the animal is tagged, branded, banded, or marked in another conspicuous manner that can be read or identified from a long distance and that identifies the animal as being the property of the claimant.
I've had this conversation before and people are stuborn. Most I've talked to are in the "I'm not a biologist so if there's an exotic on my place, shame on it" mindset. I tell them their mindset will change when they're slapped with a fine for shooting a CITES animal. How do you know? What is the difference in an exotic that escaped a high fence and one that has been living "wild". The TPWD documents don't seem to differentiate. They only say that as long as the landowner where the animal is present gives permission then it is legal. What am I missing?? We aren't talking about ownership or permission. We're talking about shooting a federally protected animal. That only applies to some reptiles, fish and amphibians. There are some state regulated, fur bearing, animals but those are only regulated if you are wanting to sell/transfer the hide. Ie CITES
Funny thing about getting older: Your eyesight starts getting weaker but your ability to see through people's BS gets much better.
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Re: PSA. Careful shooting stray exotics...
[Re: stxranchman]
#6531275
11/07/16 08:59 PM
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Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 21,617
pegasaurus
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That is a different scenario. Those are breeders selling the hunts of endangered species. Texas law allows non-indigenous species to be taken at landowners discretion. At least from what I can find in TPWD sites.
Funny thing about getting older: Your eyesight starts getting weaker but your ability to see through people's BS gets much better.
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Re: PSA. Careful shooting stray exotics...
[Re: pegasaurus]
#6531371
11/07/16 09:42 PM
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Joined: Aug 2010
Posts: 60,296
stxranchman
Obie Juan Kenobi
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Obie Juan Kenobi
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That is a different scenario. Those are breeders selling the hunts of endangered species. Texas law allows non-indigenous species to be taken at landowners discretion. At least from what I can find in TPWD sites. If the species is endangered it don't matter where that species lives, it is still endangered no matter what the scenario is. Test the law if you are so inclined to prove your point.
Are idiots multiplying faster than normal people?
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Re: PSA. Careful shooting stray exotics...
[Re: therancher]
#6531378
11/07/16 09:46 PM
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Joined: Aug 2012
Posts: 15,564
TexFlip
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Ignorance of the law is not a defense that will hold water in court.
Just to make sure that it is done thoroughly, I go both ways.
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Re: PSA. Careful shooting stray exotics...
[Re: stxranchman]
#6531395
11/07/16 09:59 PM
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Joined: Mar 2009
Posts: 4,422
jeffbird
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That is a different scenario. Those are breeders selling the hunts of endangered species. Texas law allows non-indigenous species to be taken at landowners discretion. At least from what I can find in TPWD sites. If the species is endangered it don't matter where that species lives, it is still endangered no matter what the scenario is. Test the law if you are so inclined to prove your point. Federal law pre-empts state law under the Supremacy Clause of the Constitution of the United States. State law may not prohibit an act, but it still can be illegal under federal law.
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Re: PSA. Careful shooting stray exotics...
[Re: therancher]
#6531497
11/07/16 10:44 PM
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Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 2,057
ChrisB
Veteran Tracker
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The "white deer" thread brought up an important subject all hunters need to be aware of.
It is common assumption that unmarked exotics are fair game to kill without restriction in Texas. That isn't true at all if you are talking about animals under the federally administrated CITES program.
For example, if one of my CITES regulated animals got out last spring through a water gap onto my neighbors ranch and he or one of his leasers killed it they would be liable for a felony if they didn't first obtain a CITES permit.
Since there are many areas in Texas that had water gaps wash out this year it would be prudent for hunters to know a tad more than "it's a white exotic" before pulling the trigger on an animal.
Elds deer, Arabian oryx, barashinga, red lechwe, are just some exotics that covered under the program. Most taxidermists and processors will know and ask for the permit if you bring one in. And by then it's wayyyy too late.
Just an FYI. Why don't you name all species and post some pictures of each if you wish to educate us?
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Re: PSA. Careful shooting stray exotics...
[Re: therancher]
#6531608
11/07/16 11:35 PM
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Joined: Aug 2008
Posts: 14,949
don k
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I am kind of Las Vegas. What happens here stays here.
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Re: PSA. Careful shooting stray exotics...
[Re: ChrisB]
#6531690
11/08/16 12:19 AM
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Joined: Jan 2013
Posts: 1,833
sparrish8
Pro Tracker
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The "white deer" thread brought up an important subject all hunters need to be aware of.
It is common assumption that unmarked exotics are fair game to kill without restriction in Texas. That isn't true at all if you are talking about animals under the federally administrated CITES program.
For example, if one of my CITES regulated animals got out last spring through a water gap onto my neighbors ranch and he or one of his leasers killed it they would be liable for a felony if they didn't first obtain a CITES permit.
Since there are many areas in Texas that had water gaps wash out this year it would be prudent for hunters to know a tad more than "it's a white exotic" before pulling the trigger on an animal.
Elds deer, Arabian oryx, barashinga, red lechwe, are just some exotics that covered under the program. Most taxidermists and processors will know and ask for the permit if you bring one in. And by then it's wayyyy too late.
Just an FYI. Why don't you name all species and post some pictures of each if you wish to educate us? He did on the original post
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Re: PSA. Careful shooting stray exotics...
[Re: therancher]
#6531770
11/08/16 01:00 AM
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Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 22
hkmp5s
Light Foot
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Light Foot
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 22 |
Anyone know of a comprehensive list of animals that are protected?
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Re: PSA. Careful shooting stray exotics...
[Re: hkmp5s]
#6531786
11/08/16 01:05 AM
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Joined: May 2010
Posts: 4,073
RedSnake
Extreme Tracker
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Anyone know of a comprehensive list of animals that are protected?
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Re: PSA. Careful shooting stray exotics...
[Re: therancher]
#6531792
11/08/16 01:08 AM
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Joined: Dec 2012
Posts: 11,902
Simple Searcher
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There are protected animals that require a CITES tag, and then there are flat illegal to hunt anytime animals, EG dangerous game
"Man is still a hunter, still a simple searcher after meat..." Robert C. Ruark
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Re: PSA. Careful shooting stray exotics...
[Re: therancher]
#6531896
11/08/16 02:02 AM
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Joined: Aug 2009
Posts: 4,591
decook
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I looked it up. Good luck going through it. Wouldn't surprise me a bit if a whitetail deer and feral hog show up on this list. North America CITES
Press for an AMERICAN.
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Re: PSA. Careful shooting stray exotics...
[Re: pegasaurus]
#6532160
11/08/16 05:09 AM
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Joined: Jul 2013
Posts: 7,179
therancher
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That is a different scenario. Those are breeders selling the hunts of endangered species. Texas law allows non-indigenous species to be taken at landowners discretion. At least from what I can find in TPWD sites. Those three species got de-listed thanks to a joint effort from EWA and SCI. But yes, for a couple of years "friends of animals" got those three listed under cites. And pegasaurus you are wrong. But I won't waste time arguing with you. For those wanting a comprehensive list, I don't have a condensed version. I think for hunters sake it would be good to look at game species only, but if that list exists I haven't seen it.
Crotchety old bastidge
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Re: PSA. Careful shooting stray exotics...
[Re: therancher]
#6532183
11/08/16 06:05 AM
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Joined: Dec 2010
Posts: 1,666
John Humbert
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Actually, I think Dama, Scimitar, and Addax were ALWAYS on the CITIES list - it was just that they were granted an exemption for many years. The FOA folks got the exemption repealed for a couple of years - but now the exemption is back in place.
Funny though - when the drought was on and there were deals, four of us went on a Scimitar hunt. Three of us took oryx, but I don't remember getting any paperwork for them - and the taxidermists that did them never asked.
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Re: PSA. Careful shooting stray exotics...
[Re: therancher]
#6532285
11/08/16 12:44 PM
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Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 21,617
pegasaurus
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That is a different scenario. Those are breeders selling the hunts of endangered species. Texas law allows non-indigenous species to be taken at landowners discretion. At least from what I can find in TPWD sites. Those three species got de-listed thanks to a joint effort from EWA and SCI. But yes, for a couple of years "friends of animals" got those three listed under cites. And pegasaurus you are wrong. But I won't waste time arguing with you. For those wanting a comprehensive list, I don't have a condensed version. I think for hunters sake it would be good to look at game species only, but if that list exists I haven't seen it. What am I wrong about? The TPWD Outdoor Annual states that about non indigenous species as well as other publications on their site. I am not trying to argue, I am trying to understand and learn. So, if you are so knowledgeable then please share and educate me. I am not talkIng about what Pappy or Uncle Elmer might have told you at deer camp but documentation or publication that can be read and understood.
Funny thing about getting older: Your eyesight starts getting weaker but your ability to see through people's BS gets much better.
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Re: PSA. Careful shooting stray exotics...
[Re: pegasaurus]
#6532318
11/08/16 01:05 PM
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Joined: Aug 2012
Posts: 15,564
TexFlip
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What am I wrong about? The TPWD Outdoor Annual states that about non indigenous species as well as other publications on their site. I am not trying to argue, I am trying to understand and learn. So, if you are so knowledgeable then please share and educate me. I am not talkIng about what Pappy or Uncle Elmer might have told you at deer camp but documentation or publication that can be read and understood.
Just to make sure that it is done thoroughly, I go both ways.
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Re: PSA. Careful shooting stray exotics...
[Re: John Humbert]
#6532359
11/08/16 01:28 PM
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Joined: Jul 2013
Posts: 7,179
therancher
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Actually, I think Dama, Scimitar, and Addax were ALWAYS on the CITIES list - it was just that they were granted an exemption for many years. The FOA folks got the exemption repealed for a couple of years - but now the exemption is back in place.
Funny though - when the drought was on and there were deals, four of us went on a Scimitar hunt. Three of us took oryx, but I don't remember getting any paperwork for them - and the taxidermists that did them never asked. You can get away with robbing a bank as well. Doesn't make it legal or without risk. But, since I haven't gotten cites permits for my animals since I am still building my herds, I'm not sure if there is a tag that goes with the animal, or if it is just a permit that the lamdowner has to have on site granting him/her permission to kill. Brings up a good question I'll research it.
Last edited by therancher; 11/08/16 01:34 PM.
Crotchety old bastidge
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Re: PSA. Careful shooting stray exotics...
[Re: therancher]
#6532392
11/08/16 01:46 PM
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Joined: Jul 2013
Posts: 7,179
therancher
OP
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In order to kill one of my Arabians I have to prove that I need to replace a bull for genetic diversity or prove that I need to prove I have a certain number of animals and then I can only kill a certain %.
I can live sell any and all of them.
I don't believe they can cross state lines legally either dead or alive.
Crotchety old bastidge
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