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#6525443 - 11/03/16 11:00 AM Scope comparison complaint
603Country Offline
Extreme Tracker

Registered: 07/03/12
Posts: 4878
Loc: Central Texas
I was looking at the NF versus PST comparison post. It seems that the Vortex PST, in the space of two years, has gone in discussions here from "ya gotta have one" to "not worth much". Well, I bought one a couple of years ago, and I'm real happy with it, even in low light. But...can I get a better scope? Sure I can. And could I spend $4k on a scope? Sure I can, but I won't. Newcomers to the forum, from what gets said here, may well think that lower priced scopes are garbage, particularly if they don't have turrets on them. Maybe I'm saying this because I'm just a hunter and not a long range shooter. And I suppose that if I was a long range guy, I'd be drooling over whatever is the latest and greatest.

You should see the old Bushnell I took off my late father's old Ruger 77. It's 3-9, if you are strong enough to turn the ring by hand, otherwise it's a fixed 5. Just a plain old crosshair. And he killed truckloads of deer with it.

And now that I've had my chance to grump, what scope would I buy, if I decided to buy another? Well...

Power range - 4-16 probably, though the 5-25's do interest me.
Turrets or not - probably yes
Zero stop - definitely
Tube diameter - either 1" or 30mm would do.
Weight - light. No boat anchor
FFP or SFP - probably FFP, but more thinking needed
Illumination - probably, but better than the PST I have.

So now I'm into the big bucks, even though I grumped about it. Oh, well...thanks for listening.

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#6525478 - 11/03/16 11:14 AM Re: Scope comparison complaint [Re: 603Country]
FiremanJG Offline
THF Celebrity

Registered: 12/16/08
Posts: 17893
Loc: Wolfe City, TX
I won't disparage anyone that uses a PST. I've had so many guys bring them to my class, I can't remember the number. If memory serves, none gave us any trouble. And if a guy finds one that fits in his budget, go for it.

Personally, the reason I went away from them was due to a couple of problems mine gave me. And those problems have been corrected by Burris, as well as NF SHV.

Literally ten minutes ago a good friend came out with a PST to check zero before he goes hunting. The ammo is now second loaded brass, fit to his rifle. Cold bore shot landed .5 Mil right. I had him dial it left .5 and I reset the turret to zero. I told him the CBS is the hunting shot, let's let the rifle get back down to the temp it was when you showed up. We gave it 15 minutes, and fired one more shot. Perfect zero! So the scope did do exactly what we told it to. I reminded him to keep a close eye on the turrets since they're so easy to turn. He knows that, because he flubbed a shot last year on a mule deer, because his windage turret had inadvertently been dialed 1.0 Mil right while he was walking with it slung, prior to the shot.

Are they still good scopes? Sure.

Are there better options than a PST? That varies individual to individual.
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#6525508 - 11/03/16 11:24 AM Re: Scope comparison complaint [Re: 603Country]
603Country Offline
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Registered: 07/03/12
Posts: 4878
Loc: Central Texas
Hmmm, that reminds me. If anyone has a 6-24 Vortex Viper PST FFP that's lightly used and has been replaced by something fancier, I might have interest if it's priced attractively (attractive to me, not you).

One thing about the Vortex Viper 4-16 PST FFP that I have is that the POI never varies. I snug the Tikka into the bags and blast away and the bullet strike is exactly where it's supposed to be. Every time, for several years. Adjust the turret to put the bullet an inch higher, and that's where the bullet goes. That impresses me.

As for the turrets turning when they shouldn't, my scope has never had that problem. I check it because of comments some of ya'll have made, but have never found it to be off. Ya got me worried though, so I'll keep checking.


Edited by 603Country (11/03/16 11:29 AM)

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#6525544 - 11/03/16 11:37 AM Re: Scope comparison complaint [Re: 603Country]
FiremanJG Offline
THF Celebrity

Registered: 12/16/08
Posts: 17893
Loc: Wolfe City, TX
Please do, I'd hatr for you to miss an animal at the fault of the scope.

Of course the ease of the turrets will vary scope to scope, yours might have more resistance than several I have had my hands on.

East shot my long range match with a PST. On one particular stage he zeroed the stage, I was even spotting. After he was done, he looked at the windage knob, sire enough it had moved. He corrected it, and the next stage he hardly had a miss.
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#6525563 - 11/03/16 11:47 AM Re: Scope comparison complaint [Re: 603Country]
cxjcherokec Offline
Veteran Tracker

Registered: 09/22/09
Posts: 2346
Loc: Azle, TX
Same reason I've swapped props on my boat 4xs. The factory prop did OK, was neither fast nor good shallow water holeshot. Prop 2, gained 4 MPhil and bumped the RPM to 6000, pissed port holeshot. Prop 3, gained no speed, monstrous holeshot but bogged motor down. Prop 4, same as prop 3 with less cup, gained 2.5mph over stock, killer holsehot. Kicker is prop 1 is $350, prop 2 $650 (awesome prop, didn't fit my needs), prop 3 $800 (balanced and lab finish, still didn't fit my needs), prop 4 is prop 3 with custom work @ $190. Moral is prop 1 works for 90% of the owners but not me. So those owners praise the prop, take 2 of those owners and put them on my boat. Now in comparison they think prop #1 is not so great BUT only in comparison. One guy says thats worth $990, other ghys says not to me, sure is nice but thats too much money. The PST is still a good scope but now there are other options available at a higher price that do it all better(and have been all along, just like the props). There are more users here now that have had a PST and gotten to use a NF, S&B, TT, high end vortex etc. They see the value, buy the scopes and give opinions accordingly.

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#6525579 - 11/03/16 11:56 AM Re: Scope comparison complaint [Re: 603Country]
Gone to Texas Offline
Veteran Tracker

Registered: 07/05/13
Posts: 2361
Loc: Hurst
I agree with you 603. I have a Vortex Viper PST FFP both in 4-16 and 6-24. I love them! They work great for hunting and shooting.

I looked through Fireman's SWFA SS HD 5-20 as his rifle class and man, that HD looks amazing! It is dangerous looking through a scope with HD glass because I guarantee you will want one after looking. I just can't justify spending the money for a different scope when the Vortex accomplishes 100% of my shooting needs.

Has anyone tried the Athlon Argos? It's a FFP scope with tactical turrets, multiple reticles, and in MIL/MIL or MOA/MOA.

Amazon has them right now for around $370.
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#6525588 - 11/03/16 12:00 PM Re: Scope comparison complaint [Re: 603Country]
dogdown23 Offline
Tracker

Registered: 02/15/14
Posts: 885
Loc: TX
I have a PST 4x16ffp on my 30-06. Excellent scope for the money. Never had an issue. Great illumination. When I had it mounted on my 223 shooting 6"-10" steel was never a problem out to 600yards, always did what was asked of it. Ive killed many varmints at night with it. Is there better glass out there? Of course. I just bought a Steiner military M5xi for my varmint rig. Way better scope, much much better glass but also a much higher price tag. Got it off the Hide slightly used at a really good price. Theres absolutely nothing wrong with a PST and well worth the money if u shop around. They can be had for 600-700 in excellent condition.
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#6526755 - 11/04/16 08:49 AM Re: Scope comparison complaint [Re: 603Country]
jeepercreeper Online   content
Extreme Tracker

Registered: 11/07/10
Posts: 3646
Loc: DFW
You also need to consider that new offerings in the same price range have come out in the past few years. Nightforce and Burris have already been mentioned. THere are also lower end optics that are improving and getting attention.

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#6526797 - 11/04/16 09:22 AM Re: Scope comparison complaint [Re: FiremanJG]
jeffbird Offline


Registered: 03/09/09
Posts: 1725
Originally Posted By: FiremanJG
...I reminded him to keep a close eye on the turrets since they're so easy to turn.


A strip of Gorilla tape or similar is quick and cheap insurance and easy enough to pull off if an adjustment is needed.

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#6526857 - 11/04/16 09:51 AM Re: Scope comparison complaint [Re: 603Country]
booradley Offline
Pro Tracker

Registered: 01/20/11
Posts: 1692
Loc: Justin, TX
I don't buy Vortex scopes because I don't see as well through their glass as I do some other brands. I have a friend on this forum that sees better through Vortex than most other brands. The only caveat for me being I do see very well through the Razor line.
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#6527029 - 11/04/16 11:29 AM Re: Scope comparison complaint [Re: 603Country]
603Country Offline
Extreme Tracker

Registered: 07/03/12
Posts: 4878
Loc: Central Texas
Like I've said, I'm good with Vortex glass. That said, I sure have seen the diff between good glass and bad glass. Many years ago I was pig hunting around Bandera and was sharing a big blind with a buddy. Didn't see a pig till it got dark, then I could hear them but not see them. I was straining to see a pig through the Tasco 6-24 I had on my fat-barreled 220 Swift, and could see nothing. The buddy handed me his rifle with a Zeiss scope. Holy Cow...pigs everywhere.

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#6529692 - 11/06/16 07:21 PM Re: Scope comparison complaint [Re: 603Country]
scottfromdallas Offline
Bird Dog

Registered: 06/23/15
Posts: 357
Loc: TX
I've never paid over $600 for a scope. I don't like paying more for a scope than the rifle it sits on. I've heard so many conflicting reports on Vortex. Seems like people love them or hate them. I have a 2 Zeiss Conquests and the rest of my optics are Leupold. Weavers & SWFA SS.
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#6529700 - 11/06/16 07:25 PM Re: Scope comparison complaint [Re: 603Country]
603Country Offline
Extreme Tracker

Registered: 07/03/12
Posts: 4878
Loc: Central Texas
Well, sometimes an upgrade is needed. I had mid grade scopes and then got some Leica binocs. Then I could see stuff in dim light that the scope wouldn't let me see. So I upgraded scopes. I think it might not always be good to buy the high dollar binocs. :-)

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#6529855 - 11/06/16 08:33 PM Re: Scope comparison complaint [Re: scottfromdallas]
FiremanJG Offline
THF Celebrity

Registered: 12/16/08
Posts: 17893
Loc: Wolfe City, TX
Originally Posted By: scottfromdallas
I've never paid over $600 for a scope. I don't like paying more for a scope than the rifle it sits on.


I'm an advocate of doing that very thing.
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#6529895 - 11/06/16 08:53 PM Re: Scope comparison complaint [Re: 603Country]
DStroud Offline
Pro Tracker

Registered: 11/02/11
Posts: 1160
Loc: Waco
I have a couple that the scope cost more and I could and would be happy to use a accurate precise shooting 400 dollar rifle with a 3000.00 scope on it


Edited by DStroud (11/06/16 08:54 PM)

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