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Two stage trigger - Pro's and Con's
#6522868
11/02/16 04:19 AM
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Texas Dan
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I own my first rifle with a two stage trigger.
So what are the pro's and con's with the two stage trigger design, and why did someone come up with the design in the first place?
"Some people will never like you because your spirit irritates their demons."
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Re: Two stage trigger - Pro's and Con's
[Re: Texas Dan]
#6522882
11/02/16 05:19 AM
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postoak
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What are you calling a two stage trigger?
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Re: Two stage trigger - Pro's and Con's
[Re: Texas Dan]
#6522912
11/02/16 09:38 AM
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charlesb
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Two-stage triggers are most common on military rifles, but they are starting to become popular on sporting arms, too.
A two-stage trigger is generally regarded as being safer and offering more control, particularly if the trigger pull is light. You can get your finger positioned on the trigger with a greatly reduced chance of an accidental or unintended discharge.
The new triggers with a central blade that blocks the sear or firing pin are two-stage in nature. These allow a trigger that is really light to still be safe to use, even in the field. Savage pioneered on these with the "Accu-trigger", which brought us good trigger pulls again after years of crappy triggers manufactured to satisfy product liability issues.
When the Accu-trigger was being developed, Savage engineers demonstrated the safety inherent in the design by cocking a Savage rifle and then dropping it for fifteen feet or so - without the firing pin going forward upon the rifle's impact. If you push the Accu-trigger without first depressing the blade, then the gun is de-cocked instead of firing. It will only fire if the blade - and then the trigger in turn is pulled.
Military two-stage triggers do not have the blade, but still offer increased safety and trigger control. The first, take-up bit of the trigger pull is very light, followed by a second, somewhat stiffer pull that fires the weapon.
Howa/Weatherby offers a new trigger that is two-stage. I have not tried one yet. Reports on it though are very encouraging.
Many shooters prefer a single-stage trigger, but they are not as safe when wearing gloves, or when your fingers are cold as so often is the case during a hunt.
I seem to get by just fine with either type, but there are shooters who claim that they cannot shoot accurately with anything but a single-stage trigger. I have never heard a logical explanation as to why this might be so, it generally boils down to personal preference.
My best group ever was shot with a two-stage trigger, the second-best with a single stage trigger. The only significant difference that I see between the two is the safety issue, where the two-stage design is the clear winner.
Last edited by charlesb; 11/02/16 09:33 PM.
Kind regards, charlesb
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Re: Two stage trigger - Pro's and Con's
[Re: Texas Dan]
#6522925
11/02/16 10:26 AM
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Creedmoor
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Three of my AR-15s have the Rock River NM 2-stage triggers and I am extremely pleased. Wouldn't go back to a single stage at all.
I haven't changed any of the triggers on the bolt guns, but they're coming soon.
. There's a fine line between BRAVE ... and STUPID.
The two most important days in your life are the day you are born and the day you find out why.
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Re: Two stage trigger - Pro's and Con's
[Re: Texas Dan]
#6522931
11/02/16 10:41 AM
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Texas Dan
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Thanks for the replies.
I must admit that I found the two-stage trigger on my new Weatherby somewhat awkward at first, as it's positioned somewhat ahead of what you expect with a single stage trigger. It's after you pull through the initial stage, which is very light, that it feels the same as a single stage trigger. I suspect that is clearly by design. The fact that is safer by creating a gun that is far less likely to fire when dropped makes complete sense. And with the initial stage being so light (just 8 oz. on my Weatherby), it doesn't seem to make it feel any different that a single stage trigger when breaking the firing pin release of the second stage.
Again, thanks for the replies.
"Some people will never like you because your spirit irritates their demons."
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Re: Two stage trigger - Pro's and Con's
[Re: Texas Dan]
#6523044
11/02/16 12:36 PM
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jeffbird
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Good post Charles. I prefer the two stage trigger on my Accuracy International.
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Re: Two stage trigger - Pro's and Con's
[Re: Texas Dan]
#6523057
11/02/16 12:44 PM
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TexasVine
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Great explination Charles.
TexasVine
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Re: Two stage trigger - Pro's and Con's
[Re: jeffbird]
#6523130
11/02/16 01:14 PM
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Joined: Aug 2006
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colt45-90
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Good post Charles. I prefer the two stage trigger on my Accuracy International. its possible to take the blade out of the accu trigger and it works fine, some don't care for the blade
hold on Newt, we got a runaway
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Re: Two stage trigger - Pro's and Con's
[Re: TexasVine]
#6523161
11/02/16 01:29 PM
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Texas Dan
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Great explination Charles. Yes!
"Some people will never like you because your spirit irritates their demons."
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Re: Two stage trigger - Pro's and Con's
[Re: Texas Dan]
#6523170
11/02/16 01:36 PM
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Texas Dan
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I could see where those are only familiar with traditional, single stage triggers, including myself, may totally overlook the two stage trigger as being a design flaw. I mean, how many shooters expect the trigger on a high-powered rifle to move so freely at first with no impact on the release.
Again, thanks Charles for taking the time to share such a detailed explanation.
"Some people will never like you because your spirit irritates their demons."
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Re: Two stage trigger - Pro's and Con's
[Re: Texas Dan]
#6523187
11/02/16 01:43 PM
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68A
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While it may be from lack of extensive experience, I prefer my Jewell and CMC. Not a fan of the accutrigger.
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Re: Two stage trigger - Pro's and Con's
[Re: Texas Dan]
#6523193
11/02/16 01:48 PM
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HWY_MAN
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I have one rifle with a 2 stage and it's the Steyr Pro Hunter SBS 243, it took a little getting used to.
Yes! A Weatherby does kill them deader.
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Re: Two stage trigger - Pro's and Con's
[Re: colt45-90]
#6523194
11/02/16 01:48 PM
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booradley
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Good post Charles. I prefer the two stage trigger on my Accuracy International. its possible to take the blade out of the accu trigger and it works fine, some don't care for the blade It's purely personal, I don't like the blade. I don't think single stage is better than two stage or vice versa, again I feel it's nothing but personal preference. The two stage trigger on my Vanguards feels more like a single stage trigger than the two stage triggers on the milsurps I grew up shooting(1903 and Lee Enfield). If I have a choice my preference is 1) Single Set 2) Single Stage 3) Two Stage I'm happy with the two stage triggers on my Vanguards though. And yes, that was an excellent post Charles.
Don’t roll those bloodshot eyes at me.
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Re: Two stage trigger - Pro's and Con's
[Re: Texas Dan]
#6523203
11/02/16 01:51 PM
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postoak
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Yeah, I know what a two stage trigger is but I wanted Dan to describe what he had. I thought maybe he was talking about a double set trigger, which is much rarer.
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Re: Two stage trigger - Pro's and Con's
[Re: Texas Dan]
#6523214
11/02/16 01:56 PM
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DStroud
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Charles explained it well I believe and I would only add that I am now about 2/3 switched to 2 Stage triggers in all my rifles. With me it started with using AR's with good 2 Stage triggers then I had one in a Ruger VT 6.5 liked it and started using them in all my bolt guns. I have used 3 brands of nice after market 2 Stage triggers all with solid results and I do have to vintage military rifles that utilize 2 Stage and they are decent and I can shoot them well. I find for me they allow more control of my shot with light trigger pulls as they allow me to pull to that point that I know any more pressure will release the shot. Now the draw back I have encountered as well as some buddies is switching from rifles with 2 Stage back to single Stage invariably you will have shots get away from you as you take up slack that is not there. Any rifle I want to shoot fast repeated shots like in 3 gun I stay with single Stage or at least a very short first Stage
Last edited by DStroud; 11/02/16 01:57 PM.
"Anyone taking up handloading necessarily plays with unknown factors and takes chances. But so does anyone who drives a car,goes to a cocktail party,eats in a restaurant,or gets married."
Jack O'Connor 1963
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Re: Two stage trigger - Pro's and Con's
[Re: Texas Dan]
#6523340
11/02/16 02:46 PM
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Sirrah243
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I have a RR LAR15 with a 2 stage trigger. Pro, Its smooth, crisp and light a pleasure to shoot. Cons, my other ARs are single stage.
�A hunt based only on the trophies taken falls far short of what the ultimate goal should be.� -Fred Bear
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Re: Two stage trigger - Pro's and Con's
[Re: Texas Dan]
#6523355
11/02/16 02:54 PM
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Texas Dan
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Someone correct me if I'm wrong, but based on Charle's earlier comments, the two stage design was created purely for safety reasons, and should have little or no effect on the shooter's use of the second or "break" action that releases the firing pin. In other words, once you pull through the initial stage (which is very light) and feel the much stronger resistance of the second stage, it's becomes just like pulling a single stage trigger.
Still, some might claim the ease in which the trigger is pulled through the initial stage helps the shooter in making a more soft and accurate squeeze through the second stage.
"Some people will never like you because your spirit irritates their demons."
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Re: Two stage trigger - Pro's and Con's
[Re: Texas Dan]
#6523407
11/02/16 03:32 PM
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jeffbird
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In my rifle, it does improve accuracy. The trigger pull weight is three pounds. The first stage takes up about 1.5# of the pull weight and the second stage is about 1.5#. So, it really works like pulling on a 1.5# single stage trigger.
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Re: Two stage trigger - Pro's and Con's
[Re: jeffbird]
#6523497
11/02/16 04:35 PM
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Texas Dan
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In my rifle, it does improve accuracy. The trigger pull weight is three pounds. The first stage takes up about 1.5# of the pull weight and the second stage is about 1.5#. So, it really works like pulling on a 1.5# single stage trigger. That doesn't seem right. If the pull weight is the same for both stages, how can you differentiate between the two? I suspect the second stage is 3 pounds as you stated.
"Some people will never like you because your spirit irritates their demons."
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Re: Two stage trigger - Pro's and Con's
[Re: Texas Dan]
#6523513
11/02/16 04:41 PM
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jeffbird
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In my rifle, it does improve accuracy. The trigger pull weight is three pounds. The first stage takes up about 1.5# of the pull weight and the second stage is about 1.5#. So, it really works like pulling on a 1.5# single stage trigger. That doesn't seem right. If the pull weight is the same for both stages, how can you differentiate between the two? I suspect the second stage is 3 pounds as you stated. The first stage has long travel and then stops. The second stage works just like a single stage trigger. Change the numbers if it helps. It could just as easily be 0.5# on the first stage, and 10# on the second stage, there is a stop when it reaches the second stage, and then it feels like shooting a single stage trigger.
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Re: Two stage trigger - Pro's and Con's
[Re: Texas Dan]
#6523517
11/02/16 04:43 PM
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booradley
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I think jeffbird is correct in his assumption.
Don’t roll those bloodshot eyes at me.
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Re: Two stage trigger - Pro's and Con's
[Re: jeffbird]
#6523550
11/02/16 04:59 PM
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Texas Dan
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In my rifle, it does improve accuracy. The trigger pull weight is three pounds. The first stage takes up about 1.5# of the pull weight and the second stage is about 1.5#. So, it really works like pulling on a 1.5# single stage trigger. That doesn't seem right. If the pull weight is the same for both stages, how can you differentiate between the two? I suspect the second stage is 3 pounds as you stated. The first stage has long travel and then stops. The second stage works just like a single stage trigger. Change the numbers if it helps. It could just as easily be 0.5# on the first stage, and 10# on the second stage, there is a stop when it reaches the second stage, and then it feels like shooting a single stage trigger. If the trigger stops at the end of the first stage, isn't that because it requires more than the 1.5 pounds you described earlier? In order to create the break needed to release the spring and firing pin in the second stage, it requires 3 pounds of pull. Perhaps we're saying the same thing but describing it differently.
"Some people will never like you because your spirit irritates their demons."
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Re: Two stage trigger - Pro's and Con's
[Re: Texas Dan]
#6523568
11/02/16 05:06 PM
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jeffbird
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Yes, it takes 3# total for the trigger to release. The first stage is taking up pull weight as it moves. When it hits the stop at the end of the first stage, an additional 1.5#, or 2 or 10# of additional force is required. Guess it is hard to explain without trying it. It is a mil spec rifle and trigger as Charles described above.
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Re: Two stage trigger - Pro's and Con's
[Re: Texas Dan]
#6523914
11/02/16 08:09 PM
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LandPirate
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I prefer single stage triggers. No take up, no creep, no travel. Just a given amount of pressure, a clean break and bang.
Mike Buda, Tx Hunt near Freer
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Re: Two stage trigger - Pro's and Con's
[Re: Texas Dan]
#6524199
11/02/16 10:53 PM
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kmon11
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To my thinking for describing a 2 stage trigger the first stage is a pre load on the trigger pull, in Jeffbirds example through the first stage you are loading the trigger finger with 1.5lbs then when the end of the first stage is reached you feel the added resistance of 1.5lbs of additional resistance but that acts much like a 1.5lb single stage trigger at through the release of the second stage.
lf the saying "Liar, Liar your pants on fire" were true Mainstream news might be fun to watch
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