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Check cord #6511727 10/26/16 01:15 AM
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pharmvet Offline OP
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I'm working with my 7 mo old pups. Taking them to hunt wild birds in 2 weeks.

Question: do you guys let young dogs drag a check cord while hunting wild birds? If so, when and how do you use the cord?

Re: Check cord [Re: pharmvet] #6511748 10/26/16 01:29 AM
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I think 7 months is a little old for a check cord and now a shock collar would be better if you chose to use one.

I did use one but the brush is too thick and gets tangled, can choke the dog, etc.

I might use one for maybe recall if I did bring one but that would be on a younger pup.

Last edited by MS1454; 10/26/16 01:31 AM.

Originally Posted By: Fooshman
I'll take a Black Female every time.

Re: Check cord [Re: pharmvet] #6511879 10/26/16 02:21 AM
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Originally Posted By: pharmvet
I'm working with my 7 mo old pups. Taking them to hunt wild birds in 2 weeks.

Question: do you guys let young dogs drag a check cord while hunting wild birds? If so, when and how do you use the cord?
Originally Posted By: pharmvet
I'm working with my 7 mo old pups. Taking them to hunt wild birds in 2 weeks.

Question: do you guys let young dogs drag a check cord while hunting wild birds? If so, when and how do you use the cord?


A 7 month old pup should still be having fun. I would not put a CC on one until after you have started some formal training. I have used one for much older than 7 months. Some of the wild and woolly pointer pups have used them well into their 2nd season. When the pup is going with you and handling pretty well to the front for a period of hunts, you can then slip it off. You will know when it is time.

Re: Check cord [Re: NorthTXbirdhunter] #6512001 10/26/16 03:35 AM
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When I did let one drag a check cord it was homemade from a lariat rope. They do not get tangled like a limp check cord.


Bobby Barnett

Re: Check cord [Re: bobcat1] #6512012 10/26/16 03:42 AM
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This, use a check cord with solid core.

Re: Check cord [Re: Chet] #6512038 10/26/16 04:14 AM
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The best one I have ever seen was a trainer that used the main drive rubber v-belt off of a combine. He even used it on his trained dogs for resistance training in a conditioning program. It was about 20 ft. long.

Re: Check cord [Re: pharmvet] #6512123 10/26/16 12:09 PM
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Definitely needs to be stiff.


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Re: Check cord [Re: pharmvet] #6512172 10/26/16 12:43 PM
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I agree that you should not let the pup drag the CC. However, I would have one handy in case I wanted to bring the pup in to back or work some known singles. I don't mind letting the backing pup getting in the scent zone. In fact, I encourage it.


Quail hunting is like walking into, and out of a beautiful painting all day long. Gene Hill


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Re: Check cord [Re: bill oxner] #6513367 10/26/16 10:00 PM
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Why should a pup not pull a check cord Bill? I have seen National Champion AA Horseback trainers use it, Hall of Fame trainers use it, and I have used it for 40 years myself. I am not sure a wild a$$ pup is going to let you catch him in the field in the middle of the excitement of pointed dogs to let you snap it on?? If for nothing else, you stomp on the rope to stop the dog for backing or to even catch the wild ones at times. I am a firm believer that you can't hunt and train pups at the same time. You have to do one or the other. Even when hunting, when young dogs are on the ground, if the older dogs are pointed, you have to decide what you want to do...hunt or train. Training takes precedence for me every time. Have you not had a marked covey, like one that you have seen cross the ranch road, that you got the pup out of the box and snapped a CC on him to go and try to work? You have to create perfect scenarios in training and the CC cord is another tool to assist. My best dog pulled one for a full season when he was younger just so I could get him stopped around the prime time situations. He is no worse for wear for it. At the end of the day, the CC is not so much for training as it is for stopping a dog. If he breaks point and flushes a covey, you stop him. Not honoring another pointed dog, you stop him. Wild and can't catch him to put him up, you stop him hard. I love the e-collar when it is time for it. There is not a better tool for us to use, but only on older pups and derbies. Pups up 7-9 months old at my house are only going to see the checkcord. Younger pups than that are going to run by themselves in the training field willy-nilly.

Re: Check cord [Re: pharmvet] #6513470 10/26/16 11:09 PM
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Hmmmm. I don't see the logic in hunting wild birds with a pointer dragging a cc around. For one cc are typically 20 feet or so. What's the point in having a pointer learn to hunt only 20 feet from you so you can stop him at any time? The whole idea of having a pointer is so they range out and cover ground so you don't have to. Also I want the birds to tell my pup when to stop and point. Not me holding him back

When I start formal training on pigeons in a controlled enviornment then I will be telling the dog when I don't want him chasing birds with a cc initially. Then I will reinforce it with the e collar training. when hunting wild birds use the e collar in place of a cc

Last edited by blanked; 10/26/16 11:18 PM.
Re: Check cord [Re: blanked] #6513504 10/26/16 11:25 PM
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NorthTex is absolutely right. One of the best pups I ever started would come within a couple of feet and then go on hunting. Put the CC on him and the next time he came by I told him "hear" and stepped on the cord, it took only a time or two for him to get with the program. I have three young pups this fall and will put them all down on marked coveys after they begin to flash point with the CC on. I can stop them and when they hold and I can shoot a bird for them I can keep them in to hunt dead. Until they flash point they will run free and find birds.

Your question about why would you want them only 20 feet from you hunting isn't correct you can let them drag a solid core CC with out them getting hung up and until you have control it's a good way to stop them etc. It's a great tool for the occasional pup that doesn't hit the ground broke. wink

Last edited by Chet; 10/26/16 11:26 PM.
Re: Check cord [Re: Chet] #6513556 10/26/16 11:49 PM
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Your question about why would you want them only 20 feet from you hunting isn't correct you can let them drag a solid core CC with out them getting hung up and until you have control it's a good way to stop them etc. It's a great tool for the occasional pup that doesn't hit the ground broke. wink [/quote]


How are you going to stop a pup by the cc when pup is out beyond the length of the cc. Pup isn't going to learn anything if you can only stop him some of the times when needed

Re: Check cord [Re: pharmvet] #6513561 10/26/16 11:52 PM
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I think a lot depends on the age of the pup. A fall pup can not do much running during the first season. A spring pup can bogy. A fall pup can be collar conditioned before its second season. I've had two. Both never needed a CC.

I prefer the spring pups. They are more fun the first season.


Quail hunting is like walking into, and out of a beautiful painting all day long. Gene Hill


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Re: Check cord [Re: blanked] #6513594 10/27/16 12:13 AM
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Originally Posted By: blanked


Your question about why would you want them only 20 feet from you hunting isn't correct you can let them drag a solid core CC with out them getting hung up and until you have control it's a good way to stop them etc. It's a great tool for the occasional pup that doesn't hit the ground broke. wink



How are you going to stop a pup by the cc when pup is out beyond the length of the cc. Pup isn't going to learn anything if you can only stop him some of the times when needed [/quote]


Not sure what you think a 6 month old pup knows but the cc is to stop him if you call him in and he doesn't come all the way, with the CC you have 30ft handle. And my pups learn to flash point from the birds. When they learn they can't catch them they will start to flash point and then I can get to the CC and stanch them up. It's worked for 50 years.

Just to make it clear the young pups run with out a CC till they flash point. They will come in for water. It's when they start to flash that I'll use the CC and if I run them with another dog I'll put the CC on to make sure they back.

Last edited by Chet; 10/27/16 12:44 AM.
Re: Check cord [Re: Chet] #6513782 10/27/16 02:16 AM
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Originally Posted By: Chet
Not sure what you think a 6 month old pup knows but the cc is to stop him if you call him in and he doesn't come all the way, with the CC you have 30ft handle. And my pups learn to flash point from the birds. When they learn they can't catch them they will start to flash point and then I can get to the CC and stanch them up. It's worked for 50 years.

Just to make it clear the young pups run with out a CC till they flash point. They will come in for water. It's when they start to flash that I'll use the CC and if I run them with another dog I'll put the CC on to make sure they back.
Exactly!!!!!!!! This is how I was taught as a 12 year old kid on. Those wild birds are the absolute best training tool we as hunters will ever get. They will teach those pups far better than we can simulate. Whoever has young dogs and a place to hunt this year may wind up with some of the best dogs of your lifetime. Good luck!


Bobby Barnett

Re: Check cord [Re: NorthTXbirdhunter] #6518138 10/30/16 01:53 PM
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Originally Posted By: NorthTXbirdhunter
Originally Posted By: pharmvet
I'm working with my 7 mo old pups. Taking them to hunt wild birds in 2 weeks.

Question: do you guys let young dogs drag a check cord while hunting wild birds? If so, when and how do you use the cord?
Originally Posted By: pharmvet
I'm working with my 7 mo old pups. Taking them to hunt wild birds in 2 weeks.

Question: do you guys let young dogs drag a check cord while hunting wild birds? If so, when and how do you use the cord?


A 7 month old pup should still be having fun. I would not put a CC on one until after you have started some formal training. I have used one for much older than 7 months. Some of the wild and woolly pointer pups have used them well into their 2nd season. When the pup is going with you and handling pretty well to the front for a period of hunts, you can then slip it off. You will know when it is time.


*1, leave the dam cc off, do some basic training, to many dogs are ruined by people that do not know how to train. like the old saying "you have to be smarter than the dog" which is doubtful in most case's


hold on Newt, we got a runaway
Re: Check cord [Re: pharmvet] #6518145 10/30/16 02:02 PM
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Seven months is on the bubble. It depends on the pup.


Quail hunting is like walking into, and out of a beautiful painting all day long. Gene Hill


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Re: Check cord [Re: colt45-90] #6518172 10/30/16 02:27 PM
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Originally Posted By: colt45
Originally Posted By: NorthTXbirdhunter
Originally Posted By: pharmvet
I'm working with my 7 mo old pups. Taking them to hunt wild birds in 2 weeks.

Question: do you guys let young dogs drag a check cord while hunting wild birds? If so, when and how do you use the cord?
Originally Posted By: pharmvet
I'm working with my 7 mo old pups. Taking them to hunt wild birds in 2 weeks.

Question: do you guys let young dogs drag a check cord while hunting wild birds? If so, when and how do you use the cord?


A 7 month old pup should still be having fun. I would not put a CC on one until after you have started some formal training. I have used one for much older than 7 months. Some of the wild and woolly pointer pups have used them well into their 2nd season. When the pup is going with you and handling pretty well to the front for a period of hunts, you can then slip it off. You will know when it is time.


*1, leave the dam cc off, do some basic training, to many dogs are ruined by people that do not know how to train. like the old saying "you have to be smarter than the dog" which is doubtful in most case's


Wow, you're talking to a lot of bird hunters who have done a lot of training. I realize you must know more than most folks on the board but maybe not all. I guess I need to get on the phone and let several (most all) the pro handlers who have been ruining dogs for years with the CC. You may want to think about the fact that there are a bunch of successful folks out there that have been using the CC as an integral part of breaking a pup for years. And maybe calm down a little before you say that folks that use it are dumber than their dogs. Thanks

Re: Check cord [Re: colt45-90] #6518185 10/30/16 02:36 PM
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Originally Posted By: colt45
Originally Posted By: NorthTXbirdhunter
Originally Posted By: pharmvet
I'm working with my 7 mo old pups. Taking them to hunt wild birds in 2 weeks.

Question: do you guys let young dogs drag a check cord while hunting wild birds? If so, when and how do you use the cord?
Originally Posted By: pharmvet
I'm working with my 7 mo old pups. Taking them to hunt wild birds in 2 weeks.

Question: do you guys let young dogs drag a check cord while hunting wild birds? If so, when and how do you use the cord?


A 7 month old pup should still be having fun. I would not put a CC on one until after you have started some formal training. I have used one for much older than 7 months. Some of the wild and woolly pointer pups have used them well into their 2nd season. When the pup is going with you and handling pretty well to the front for a period of hunts, you can then slip it off. You will know when it is time.


*1, leave the dam cc off, do some basic training, to many dogs are ruined by people that do not know how to train. like the old saying "you have to be smarter than the dog" which is doubtful in most case's



As the saying goes....let's see what you got.

Anytime you want to see my "ruined checkcorded" dogs, you let me know.

Re: Check cord [Re: NorthTXbirdhunter] #6518209 10/30/16 02:49 PM
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Originally Posted By: NorthTXbirdhunter
Originally Posted By: colt45
Originally Posted By: NorthTXbirdhunter
Originally Posted By: pharmvet
I'm working with my 7 mo old pups. Taking them to hunt wild birds in 2 weeks.

Question: do you guys let young dogs drag a check cord while hunting wild birds? If so, when and how do you use the cord?
Originally Posted By: pharmvet
I'm working with my 7 mo old pups. Taking them to hunt wild birds in 2 weeks.

Question: do you guys let young dogs drag a check cord while hunting wild birds? If so, when and how do you use the cord?


A 7 month old pup should still be having fun. I would not put a CC on one until after you have started some formal training. I have used one for much older than 7 months. Some of the wild and woolly pointer pups have used them well into their 2nd season. When the pup is going with you and handling pretty well to the front for a period of hunts, you can then slip it off. You will know when it is time.


*1, leave the dam cc off, do some basic training, to many dogs are ruined by people that do not know how to train. like the old saying "you have to be smarter than the dog" which is doubtful in most case's



As the saying goes....let's see what you got.

Anytime you want to see my "ruined checkcorded" dogs, you let me know.




roflmao

Re: Check cord [Re: pharmvet] #6518528 10/30/16 08:03 PM
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I doubt there is a trainer in business today that is using the same training methods for the last 50 years. Remote launchers, e collars, are the core of pointing dog training.

Hunting wise GPS tracking collars is the biggest advancement since the ecollar.


As I mentioned earlier. Use the cc in a controlled training enviornment then use the e collar when hunting to reinforce the cc


But 7 months old train pup to come ( by voice/ e collar ). And gun condition. Then just take him hunting and let the birds do the rest this season

Last edited by blanked; 10/30/16 08:39 PM.
Re: Check cord [Re: blanked] #6518552 10/30/16 08:24 PM
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Originally Posted By: blanked
I doubt there is a trainer in business today that is using the same training methods for the last 50 years. Remote launchers, e collars, are the core of pointing dog training.

Hunting wise GPS tracking collars is the biggest advancement since the ecollar.



I concur. They shot their dogs in the old days. One 7 month dog may be ready for collar conditioning while another may not be. I never ran my last two pointers with a CC but they were both 10 months old. They hunted with the e-collar from day one. My HTA pointer pointed over 50 coveys her first year and bumped one. She won our regional NSTRA trial at a year and a half.


Quail hunting is like walking into, and out of a beautiful painting all day long. Gene Hill


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Re: Check cord [Re: blanked] #6518604 10/30/16 09:19 PM
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Originally Posted By: blanked
I doubt there is a trainer in business today that is using the same training methods for the last 50 years. Remote launchers, e collars, are the core of pointing dog training.

Hunting wise GPS tracking collars is the biggest advancement since the ecollar.


As I mentioned earlier. Use the cc in a controlled training enviornment then use the e collar when hunting to reinforce the cc


But 7 months old train pup to come ( by voice/ e collar ). And gun condition. Then just take him hunting and let the birds do the rest this season


Agree to what you are saying for the most part. I use all of the devices you have mentioned. Where we differ is the age of the pup when applying the e-collar. I am not going to shock a dog in his first season. I am certainly not shocking a 7 month old pup. But I am not expecting a pup to be perfect at that age either. I want the pup to turn his own light on. I will help him correct his mistakes along the way. The CC is the primer to get him to this point of applying the e-collar. My pups usually don't get the e-collar until their second season.

Re: Check cord [Re: NorthTXbirdhunter] #6518609 10/30/16 09:22 PM
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Originally Posted By: NorthTXbirdhunter
Originally Posted By: blanked
I doubt there is a trainer in business today that is using the same training methods for the last 50 years. Remote launchers, e collars, are the core of pointing dog training.

Hunting wise GPS tracking collars is the biggest advancement since the ecollar.


As I mentioned earlier. Use the cc in a controlled training enviornment then use the e collar when hunting to reinforce the cc


But 7 months old train pup to come ( by voice/ e collar ). And gun condition. Then just take him hunting and let the birds do the rest this season


Agree to what you are saying for the most part. I use all of the devices you have mentioned. Where we differ is the age of the pup when applying the e-collar. I am not going to shock a dog in his first season. I am certainly not shocking a 7 month old pup. But I am not expecting a pup to be perfect at that age either. I want the pup to turn his own light on. I will help him correct his mistakes along the way. The CC is the primer to get him to this point of applying the e-collar. My pups usually don't get the e-collar until their second season.


What if its an October pup and not hunting the first season?


Quail hunting is like walking into, and out of a beautiful painting all day long. Gene Hill


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Re: Check cord [Re: pharmvet] #6518625 10/30/16 09:41 PM
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I respect most of all the previous post, I am old school, never used electronics (different hunting conditions that Texas) every dog (pup) is different as breeds are. I had a setter that did not mature until he was a long 2yr old, turned out to be the best I had ever owned and the best locals had ever seen, his pup were totally opposite, they would point & back at 6 months naturally. remember this, on here we are hearing the best results, anyone venture to guess how many dog, pups are ruined by cc or improper methods. I once worked with cutting horse's, another trainer that was working, when he didn't know what to do when any particular horse made a mistake he would beat hell out of and abuse, I couldn't say anything because he was the owners son n law, I end up quitting.


hold on Newt, we got a runaway
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