What if its an October pup and not hunting the first season?

I respect most of all the previous post, I am old school, never used electronics (different hunting conditions that Texas) every dog (pup) is different as breeds are. I had a setter that did not mature until he was a long 2yr old, turned out to be the best I had ever owned and the best locals had ever seen, his pup were totally opposite, they would point & back at 6 months naturally. remember this, on here we are hearing the best results, anyone venture to guess how many dog, pups are ruined by cc or improper methods. I once worked with cutting horse's, another trainer that was working, when he didn't know what to do when any particular horse made a mistake he would beat hell out of and abuse, I couldn't say anything because he was the owners son n law, I end up quitting.

The beauty of GPS trackers is there is no need to be hacking the dog to hunt close. Also the beauty of wild birds training dogs there's no reason to open your mouth / correct the dog.

This means very little e collar is used first year

You answered your own question, all pups are different.

Colt, I will guarantee you with utmost confidence, that more dogs have been abused and ruined by the e-collar than the CC. I use both, but I think I understand when, where, and how to use both. For me, it is all about timing and maturity and competence of the pup.

Yet, some argued.

Turn the rope loose!!!! let him drag it.

Bill, Chet,
It appears that all of us have been around this game a long time. The greatest times of my life, outside of the births of my kids and my granddaughter, have been in the field chasing birddogs. We all know that all pups are different and require different methods of training at different times. That is what makes this sport so rewarding in that you have conquered whatever it takes to make a birddog more perfect than his natural genetics will allow him. I am going to get deep right here....but a pup will tell you when it is time to break him. Only you will know this by his change in behavior in the field. When you can tell that the pup is hunting for a purpose instead of running to hear the wind blow in his ears, you know it is time. When they start bumping birds, chasing, flash pointing, going with you and handling a little bit, looking for dead birds at shot, they are really screaming out "break me!, break me! I am ready!" I know all of us have different ways of handling and training, and they all work. At the end of the day, if we all get a really fine dog that will completely finish, I don't guess it really matters how we got there. It's all good! We will all continue to use the methods that we are comfortable with. Like I have mentioned before, I try to get and keep my dogs to a field trial standard because that is the bar I have set for myself even though I have not trialed in years. So far it is working, I am happy, and we are having great success together, me and the dogs.

Chet,
I sold a derby male setter to a guy one time before season, telling him that the dog was not broke at all. Well, about the end of December, he calls me and tells me that he wants his money back. When I asked why, he told me that this was the sorriest dog he had ever had because he ran up 18 coveys of birds that weekend. When I asked him how many his grown dogs pointed, he told me either 2 or 3. Man, a smile came on my face like never before. I gave him his money back graciously and hunted the dog another 12 seasons. I had him holding his birds well before the end of that particular season. Ol' Doc probably had a couple of thousand quail and pheasants killed in front of him. But it just shows you that a good pup will practically beg you to break them. Patience and lots of birds are the key. Plus, you have to recognize what you are looking at.