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Minimum Shooting Skill? #6506145 10/22/16 03:29 AM
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jeffbird Offline OP
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The recurring threads about longer range shooting made me wonder, what is the minimum acceptable standard for shooting skill with a rifle the every deer hunter should be expected to meet?


Re: Minimum Shooting Skill? [Re: jeffbird] #6506152 10/22/16 03:37 AM
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If you can hit a paper plate 5 times in a row at 100 yards you're ready to deer hunt.

Re: Minimum Shooting Skill? [Re: scalebuster] #6506161 10/22/16 03:44 AM
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Originally Posted By: scalebuster
If you can hit a paper plate 5 times in a row at 100 yards you're ready to deer hunt.


He's talking about the little dessert paper plates....

Re: Minimum Shooting Skill? [Re: jeffbird] #6506165 10/22/16 03:48 AM
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I think a hundred yards is a good place to start, but practice at longer distances will help. The main thing imo is to have the ethical discipline, not to over extend your comfort zone on a live animal.


Re: Minimum Shooting Skill? [Re: jeffbird] #6506200 10/22/16 05:15 AM
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I think you should be able to consistently shoot 2 moa at 100 yards with any modern firearm. Just the beginning jump off point, IMHO.


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Re: Minimum Shooting Skill? [Re: Deerhunter61] #6506289 10/22/16 12:49 PM
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Originally Posted By: Deerhunter61
Originally Posted By: scalebuster
If you can hit a paper plate 5 times in a row at 100 yards you're ready to deer hunt.


He's talking about the little dessert paper plates....

X2


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Re: Minimum Shooting Skill? [Re: scalebuster] #6506303 10/22/16 01:12 PM
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Originally Posted By: scalebuster
If you can hit a paper plate 5 times in a row at 100 yards you're ready to deer hunt.


This, but one of those little 4" plates



Re: Minimum Shooting Skill? [Re: jeffbird] #6506310 10/22/16 01:21 PM
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Be able to hit what you shoot at.

Re: Minimum Shooting Skill? [Re: LandPirate] #6506312 10/22/16 01:22 PM
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Originally Posted By: LandPirate
I think you should be able to consistently shoot 2 moa at 100 yards with any modern firearm. Just the beginning jump off point, IMHO.


I'd go with that. Snuff Can MOA.

Re: Minimum Shooting Skill? [Re: jeffbird] #6506313 10/22/16 01:22 PM
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Originally Posted By: jeffbird
The recurring threads about longer range shooting made me wonder, what is the minimum acceptable standard for shooting skill with a rifle the every deer hunter should be expected to meet?



Seriously?

Any range that the rifle and shooter are capable of making a clean kill. It ain't rocket science. Either you can make the shot or you can't. Any doubt is reason to let the animal walk. There is no "standard". Every individual has to make these decisions for themselves.


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Re: Minimum Shooting Skill? [Re: jeffbird] #6506318 10/22/16 01:29 PM
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With today's rifles and ammo 2 MOA at 100 is not unreasonable, meaning can the gear do it with the shooter solid and comfortable. 1 MOA and less is possible in any mass produced rifles, now days.


Once the equipment consistency is established, then the shooter needs to practice getting the same consistency, on a target twice the size of what the rifle can shoot, from field positions.

Whole new set of skills and techniques once prone or the bench is taken away. That's what we work on more, on day two.

And I'm meaning at 100 yards, walk before you run. If you want to be able to hit vitals at 200, 300 or farther, establish if your equipment can do it, then you have to find out of you can do it, from the positions you'll be shooting from.


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Re: Minimum Shooting Skill? [Re: jeffbird] #6506324 10/22/16 01:37 PM
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one of the guys on our lese is bring a hunter (female) that's going to shoot today for the first time & probably the only time, I am totally p$$$$$, nothing I can do about it.


hold on Newt, we got a runaway
Re: Minimum Shooting Skill? [Re: jeffbird] #6506352 10/22/16 02:04 PM
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Mines first time to shoot a rifle she didn't even get to practice... went over everything while sitting in the blind... 125yrds one and done



Last edited by Navasot; 10/22/16 02:06 PM.
Re: Minimum Shooting Skill? [Re: jeffbird] #6506378 10/22/16 02:25 PM
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.....AND IMHO, After you get through playing on the bags, then go shoot offhand - standing, sitting, crouching, leaning against a tree or throwing a back pack over a log and see if you can still do as good! yingyang

Of course if the only thing you're ever gonna do is sit in a blind then maybe the bag is OK! peep


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Re: Minimum Shooting Skill? [Re: jeffbird] #6506380 10/22/16 02:25 PM
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Think of this, some women can shoot better than men. Don't put them down until you see what they can do. There are a lot of women hunters out there.

Re: Minimum Shooting Skill? [Re: Dalee7892] #6506388 10/22/16 02:31 PM
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Originally Posted By: Dalee7892
Think of this, some women can shoot better than men. Don't put them down until you see what they can do. There are a lot of women hunters out there.


up


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Re: Minimum Shooting Skill? [Re: Dalee7892] #6506397 10/22/16 02:37 PM
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Originally Posted By: Dalee7892
Think of this, some women can shoot better than men. Don't put them down until you see what they can do. There are a lot of women hunters out there.


YEP. Like this young lady ......... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lOVetAeBlrw


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Re: Minimum Shooting Skill? [Re: jeffbird] #6506423 10/22/16 03:03 PM
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I have spent a lot of range time preparing my guns and myself to become a proficient shooter. Its important to understand where that bullet is going for ethical hunting standards and safety. A person with minimal understanding and knowledge of ballistics and what a high powered rifle can do who is walking around a deer lease or WMA might not understand that the bullet can and will travel over fence lines and there are people and objects around.

So yes a person should have some experience and should have some minimal skills like hitting a 6 inch target at 100 yards every time.


GO TRUMP!
Re: Minimum Shooting Skill? [Re: jeffbird] #6506475 10/22/16 03:44 PM
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I think range time is important, but if you really want to get real world experience pick up a .22LR and get out in the field plinking at whatever. Busting turtle heads on a stock tank is great practice. Squirrel hunting, rabbits, cow chips, tweety birds, whatever.
You'll hone your shooting skills and have fun at the same time.


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Re: Minimum Shooting Skill? [Re: Creedmoor] #6506485 10/22/16 03:53 PM
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Originally Posted By: Creedmoor

Seriously?

Any range that the rifle and shooter are capable of making a clean kill. It ain't rocket science. Either you can make the shot or you can't. Any doubt is reason to let the animal walk. There is no "standard". Every individual has to make these decisions for themselves.


Yes, seriously.

Agree 101% with "capable of making a clean kill."

The question is what is the level of proficiency will make that happen with a high degree of reliability?

Pictures here regularly show targets with ok groups, but which are 6" off the bullseye at 100 yards under range conditions.

Go to a public range and watch people use sandbags or worse a Lead Sled concentrate like they are going to shoot a gnat. Yet, they end up with a target at 100 yards resembling a shotgun pattern.

Personally, I expect those I help to be able to hit a 4" circle at 100 yards off of a 2"x4" clamped between benches to simulate a deer blind, and at 200 yards use a 6" target.

The dessert plate post above actually seems like a reasonable expectation, if the person can hit it reliably.

One thing I see over and over at the range this time of the year, many are way overgunned and way underpracticed.



Re: Minimum Shooting Skill? [Re: Navasot] #6506490 10/22/16 04:00 PM
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Originally Posted By: Navasot
Mines first time to shoot a rifle she didn't even get to practice... went over everything while sitting in the blind... 125yrds one and done




And isn't she left handed and shot it right handed roflmao

Smoked it cheers


Re: Minimum Shooting Skill? [Re: jeffbird] #6506492 10/22/16 04:01 PM
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Right handed and shot left handed lol

Re: Minimum Shooting Skill? [Re: jeffbird] #6506505 10/22/16 04:14 PM
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Originally Posted By: jeffbird
Originally Posted By: Creedmoor

Seriously?

Any range that the rifle and shooter are capable of making a clean kill. It ain't rocket science. Either you can make the shot or you can't. Any doubt is reason to let the animal walk. There is no "standard". Every individual has to make these decisions for themselves.


Yes, seriously.

Agree 101% with "capable of making a clean kill."

The question is what is the level of proficiency will make that happen with a high degree of reliability?

Pictures here regularly show targets with ok groups, but which are 6" off the bullseye at 100 yards under range conditions.

Go to a public range and watch people use sandbags or worse a Lead Sled concentrate like they are going to shoot a gnat. Yet, they end up with a target at 100 yards resembling a shotgun pattern.

Personally, I expect those I help to be able to hit a 4" circle at 100 yards off of a 2"x4" clamped between benches to simulate a deer blind, and at 200 yards use a 6" target.

The dessert plate post above actually seems like a reasonable expectation, if the person can hit it reliably.

One thing I see over and over at the range this time of the year, many are way overgunned and way underpracticed.




But we're saying the same thing. There's no "standard". I see people at our club shoot itty bitty groups all the time, but that doesn't mean their talents are field worthy. Accurate field shooting has no connection with shooting from a concrete bench in the shade off of a lead sled. So how are you going to set a "standard"?

Honestly (or seriously, lol) each hunter knows in their minds and hearts whether they can reliably take a shooting opportunity when it presents itself. It then comes down to their integrity and sense of sportsmanship.

We're on the same page but are presenting it in a different manner I think. wink up


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Re: Minimum Shooting Skill? [Re: Creedmoor] #6506537 10/22/16 04:41 PM
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Originally Posted By: Creedmoor

... each hunter knows in their minds and hearts whether they can reliably take a shooting opportunity when it presents itself. ....


Yes we are, except for that one point. From watching results on the range and discussion here, lots of people, perhaps a majority of deer hunters, that think they are ready and proficient, when they are way off base.

The goal of this thread, hopefully, is generate some discussion and more objective metrics for people to consider.

There are several in this forum that can very reliably make hits out to 300 or 400 yards, or more, under field conditions using the dessert paper plate standard above (really starting to like that).

Conversely, there are many hunters who cannot make reliably make that shot away from a bench even at 100 yards.

Some cannot do it even with a bench from watching the range results.

How many have actually shot a target out of a deer blind to see how it differs from using a sand bag on a bench?

Re: Minimum Shooting Skill? [Re: jeffbird] #6506558 10/22/16 05:10 PM
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Yes, I see this every day here. Our club has 50, 100, 200, 300, & 500 ranges available. Every year in early Fall there are a bunch of guys that "zero" (term used loosely) their rifles on the 50 yard range. I have asked several of them why they don't use the 100 at least and not the 200. Their reply is .... "Here in Tennessee it's rare to have a shot over 50 yards". And for the most part they're correct. But that leaves them poorly prepared for a shot across a hay field at 175 yards on the buck of their lifetime. And what are they going to do? They're going to launch a bullet recklessly across the field with their best guess.

A thread was started about why the desire to feel like we want to take an animal at extreme ranges. I feel like every hunter should know the limit of their talents and the capability of their firearm. I prefer to shoot an animal at 50 yards if at all possible. But that doesn't mean I'm not going to get proficient at much longer ranges.

I don't have an answer as to a "standard". And I don't think you can advise a standard for everyone. Each game animal and geography varies. My only suggestion is what I said above........Take the shots you know you can make (proven by proper preparation) and let the rest go.


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