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 .308 bullet's
#6506283
10/22/16 12:40 PM
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Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 11,657
colt45-90
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Texas colt45
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Texas colt45
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shooting a 18" barrel w/1-10 twist, 168gr bullets, not getting the group I would like, would a lighter bullet work better, have tried 3 different powders.
hold on Newt, we got a runaway
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Re: .308 bullet's
[Re: colt45-90]
#6506311
10/22/16 01:21 PM
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Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 41,164
J.G.
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You've tried three powders, but how manyn powder charges have you tried?
It's rare to see a 1:10 twist .308 not shoot a 168 gr.
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Re: .308 bullet's
[Re: colt45-90]
#6506314
10/22/16 01:23 PM
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Joined: Jun 2015
Posts: 11,534
rickym
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Whish 168gr bullet? Smk? You may need a different length bullet to get it stabilized out of the short barrel
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Re: .308 bullet's
[Re: colt45-90]
#6506316
10/22/16 01:24 PM
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Joined: Sep 2016
Posts: 1,088
Creedmoor
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What powders and what charges? That barrel should be fine with a 168 grain bullet.
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There's a fine line between BRAVE ... and STUPID.
The two most important days in your life are the day you are born and the day you find out why.
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Re: .308 bullet's
[Re: rickym]
#6506329
10/22/16 01:40 PM
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Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 41,164
J.G.
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Whish 168gr bullet? Smk? You may need a different length bullet to get it stabilized out of the short barrel Barrel length does not dictate stability. Twist rate, does.
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Re: .308 bullet's
[Re: colt45-90]
#6506335
10/22/16 01:52 PM
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Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 11,657
colt45-90
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Texas colt45
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Texas colt45
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hold on Newt, we got a runaway
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Re: .308 bullet's
[Re: colt45-90]
#6506341
10/22/16 01:57 PM
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Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 41,164
J.G.
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Not gonna answer the questions we asked? 
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Re: .308 bullet's
[Re: J.G.]
#6506437
10/22/16 03:12 PM
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Joined: Sep 2016
Posts: 1,088
Creedmoor
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Not gonna answer the questions we asked? Or at least tell us what you did to correct the issue. We are all willing to absorb information. 
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There's a fine line between BRAVE ... and STUPID.
The two most important days in your life are the day you are born and the day you find out why.
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Re: .308 bullet's
[Re: J.G.]
#6506440
10/22/16 03:14 PM
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Joined: Nov 2014
Posts: 772
TexasUplander
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Whish 168gr bullet? Smk? You may need a different length bullet to get it stabilized out of the short barrel Barrel length does not dictate stability. Twist rate, does. .......and velocity
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Re: .308 bullet's
[Re: TexasUplander]
#6506456
10/22/16 03:26 PM
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Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 41,164
J.G.
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Re: .308 bullet's
[Re: TexasUplander]
#6506464
10/22/16 03:36 PM
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Joined: Sep 2016
Posts: 1,088
Creedmoor
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Whish 168gr bullet? Smk? You may need a different length bullet to get it stabilized out of the short barrel Barrel length does not dictate stability. Twist rate, does. .......and velocity 
.
There's a fine line between BRAVE ... and STUPID.
The two most important days in your life are the day you are born and the day you find out why.
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Re: .308 bullet's
[Re: Creedmoor]
#6506481
10/22/16 03:47 PM
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Joined: Sep 2011
Posts: 1,053
bo3
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Whish 168gr bullet? Smk? You may need a different length bullet to get it stabilized out of the short barrel Barrel length does not dictate stability. Twist rate, does. .......and velocity They stabilize by running faster twist. 1 in 10 will stabilize a 208 amax at 308 velocity. Slow it down to subsonic and you will need a 1 in 8 or 7 to stabilize it. Its a combination of velocity nnd twist to stabilize a bullet.
Last edited by bo323; 10/22/16 03:48 PM.
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Re: .308 bullet's
[Re: colt45-90]
#6506559
10/22/16 05:10 PM
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Joined: Mar 2009
Posts: 4,423
jeffbird
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shooting a 18" barrel w/1-10 twist, 168gr bullets, not getting the group I would like, would a lighter bullet work better, have tried 3 different powders. Please provide details about the rifle, scope, and what ammo combos you have tried, and the results for each. Twist rate is not the issue, and that is a certainty.
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Re: .308 bullet's
[Re: bo3]
#6506694
10/22/16 07:50 PM
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Joined: Nov 2014
Posts: 772
TexasUplander
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[quote=rickym]Whish 168gr bullet? Smk? You may need a different length bullet to get it stabilized out of the short barrel Barrel length does not dictate stability. Twist rate, does. .......and velocity They stabilize by running faster twist. 1 in 10 will stabilize a 208 amax at 308 velocity. Slow it down to subsonic and you will need a 1 in 8 or 7 to stabilize it. Its a combination of velocity nnd twist to stabilize a bullet. [/quote] Bingo
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Re: .308 bullet's
[Re: J.G.]
#6506711
10/22/16 08:05 PM
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Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 11,657
colt45-90
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Texas colt45
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Texas colt45
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Whish 168gr bullet? Smk? You may need a different length bullet to get it stabilized out of the short barrel Barrel length does not dictate stability. Twist rate, does. been to the ranch, will check notes ect.
hold on Newt, we got a runaway
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Re: .308 bullet's
[Re: bo3]
#6506720
10/22/16 08:17 PM
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Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 41,164
J.G.
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[quote=rickym]Whish 168gr bullet? Smk? You may need a different length bullet to get it stabilized out of the short barrel Barrel length does not dictate stability. Twist rate, does. .......and velocity They stabilize by running faster twist. 1 in 10 will stabilize a 208 amax at 308 velocity. Slow it down to subsonic and you will need a 1 in 8 or 7 to stabilize it. Its a combination of velocity nnd twist to stabilize a bullet.[/quote] No argument from me in that scenario. But it's not always just that simple. My 7-08 can run 154 gr bullets supersonic, and it can run 150's sub sonic, and shoot very accurately with both. Length of bearing surface comes into play here. But we're off topic. A 1:10 .308 and 168 gr, and 175-178 gr bullets were made for each other. 1:11" twists have also done a fine job of stabilizing them and shooting them consistently.
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Re: .308 bullet's
[Re: colt45-90]
#6506745
10/22/16 08:40 PM
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Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 11,657
colt45-90
OP
Texas colt45
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Texas colt45
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nosler bt 168gr
varget 43.2, 43.4, 43.7
bl-c2 45.0, 45.3, 45.7
the bl-c was a tad bit better, I know I can increase load, ran out of he nosler 168's
hold on Newt, we got a runaway
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Re: .308 bullet's
[Re: colt45-90]
#6506794
10/22/16 09:30 PM
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Joined: Mar 2009
Posts: 4,423
jeffbird
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Set seating depth to 0.010" off of the lands for a starting point. To do that, load a round long without powder or primer. Hold the bullet over a kitchen match so it is covered in soot or cover it with a Sharpie marker. Load it and keep shortening the COAL until the bolt will close. Then, check for where the lands make marks on the bullet. Move it back until there are no more marks and then set it back 0.010".
Did you see any signs of pressure with the highest load of Varget? What was the velocity?
NBT and either or both of those powders should work fine.
Check runout.
Use 0.002" - 0.003" neck tension, but no more.
Using fire formed brass set the shoulder back 0.0015" - 0.002" max. Many folks overdo resizing which causes accuracy to degrade and ignition issues.
How does the rifle shoot with factory match ammo like Black Hills or Federal?
Make the rings, bases, and action screws are tight.
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Re: .308 bullet's
[Re: colt45-90]
#6506809
10/22/16 09:38 PM
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Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 41,164
J.G.
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nosler bt 168gr
varget 43.2, 43.4, 43.7
bl-c2 45.0, 45.3, 45.7
the bl-c was a tad bit better, I know I can increase load, ran out of he nosler 168's Low end load for the 168's and H-Varget. Begin at 44.5 gr and ease up to 46.0 gr and see what you see.
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Re: .308 bullet's
[Re: colt45-90]
#6506841
10/22/16 10:06 PM
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Joined: Mar 2009
Posts: 4,423
jeffbird
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FJG,
Really depends on the chamber, bullet, and lot of powder. Hodgdon powders can vary lot to lot. But agree he should move up to near max and he likely has room left, which is why I asked about pressure signs and velocity.
I am loading some 150 Partitions right now with 44.7 gr of Varget, which is well below the Nosler book max, but near actual max for the bullet in a Montana Rifle Company with 1:10" 24".
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Re: .308 bullet's
[Re: jeffbird]
#6506898
10/22/16 10:52 PM
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Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 11,657
colt45-90
OP
Texas colt45
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OP
Texas colt45
Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 11,657 |
Set seating depth to 0.010" off of the lands for a starting point. To do that, load a round long without powder or primer. Hold the bullet over a kitchen match so it is covered in soot or cover it with a Sharpie marker. Load it and keep shortening the COAL until the bolt will close. Then, check for where the lands make marks on the bullet. Move it back until there are no more marks and then set it back 0.010".
Did you see any signs of pressure with the highest load of Varget? What was the velocity?
NBT and either or both of those powders should work fine.
Check runout.
Use 0.002" - 0.003" neck tension, but no more.
Using fire formed brass set the shoulder back 0.0015" - 0.002" max. Many folks overdo resizing which causes accuracy to degrade and ignition issues.
How does the rifle shoot with factory match ammo like Black Hills or Federal?
Make the rings, bases, and action screws are tight.
always all the above, NOT going to buy shelf ammo
hold on Newt, we got a runaway
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Re: .308 bullet's
[Re: J.G.]
#6506899
10/22/16 10:53 PM
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Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 11,657
colt45-90
OP
Texas colt45
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OP
Texas colt45
Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 11,657 |
nosler bt 168gr
varget 43.2, 43.4, 43.7
bl-c2 45.0, 45.3, 45.7
the bl-c was a tad bit better, I know I can increase load, ran out of he nosler 168's Low end load for the 168's and H-Varget. Begin at 44.5 gr and ease up to 46.0 gr and see what you see. Jason, thanks, will do that as soon as the bullets get here, graff's & precision were out, midway on the way
hold on Newt, we got a runaway
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Re: .308 bullet's
[Re: jeffbird]
#6506909
10/22/16 11:05 PM
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Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 41,164
J.G.
THF Celebrity
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Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 41,164 |
FJG,
Really depends on the chamber, bullet, and lot of powder. Hodgdon powders can vary lot to lot. But agree he should move up to near max and he likely has room left, which is why I asked about pressure signs and velocity.
I am loading some 150 Partitions right now with 44.7 gr of Varget, which is well below the Nosler book max, but near actual max for the bullet in a Montana Rifle Company with 1:10" 24".
I know what you mean. I've also seen many published sources say a max charge is X, and thousands of .308's, 6.5 Creedmoors, .260 Rem, 7mm-08, ect shoot well above those numbers. The .308 may be THE cartridge that has the most data in the world. And so many of us just know that it runs a 168 gr between 45.0 and 46.0 of Varget, and a 175-178 gr between 44.0 and 45.0 of Varget. I'm never going to tell anyone to start there. Start below, and work towards it, when you see pressure signs STOP! I've pulled more than one bullet and poured the powder back into the canister in my days. 
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Re: .308 bullet's
[Re: colt45-90]
#6506928
10/22/16 11:25 PM
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Joined: Mar 2009
Posts: 4,423
jeffbird
Extreme Tracker
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Set seating depth to 0.010" off of the lands for a starting point. To do that, load a round long without powder or primer. Hold the bullet over a kitchen match so it is covered in soot or cover it with a Sharpie marker. Load it and keep shortening the COAL until the bolt will close. Then, check for where the lands make marks on the bullet. Move it back until there are no more marks and then set it back 0.010".
Did you see any signs of pressure with the highest load of Varget? What was the velocity?
NBT and either or both of those powders should work fine.
Check runout.
Use 0.002" - 0.003" neck tension, but no more.
Using fire formed brass set the shoulder back 0.0015" - 0.002" max. Many folks overdo resizing which causes accuracy to degrade and ignition issues.
How does the rifle shoot with factory match ammo like Black Hills or Federal?
Make the rings, bases, and action screws are tight.
always all the above, NOT going to buy shelf ammo Like the way you think you think. Good luck!
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Re: .308 bullet's
[Re: jeffbird]
#6507260
10/23/16 12:14 PM
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Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 11,657
colt45-90
OP
Texas colt45
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OP
Texas colt45
Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 11,657 |
Set seating depth to 0.010" off of the lands for a starting point. To do that, load a round long without powder or primer. Hold the bullet over a kitchen match so it is covered in soot or cover it with a Sharpie marker. Load it and keep shortening the COAL until the bolt will close. Then, check for where the lands make marks on the bullet. Move it back until there are no more marks and then set it back 0.010".
Did you see any signs of pressure with the highest load of Varget? What was the velocity?
NBT and either or both of those powders should work fine.
Check runout.
Use 0.002" - 0.003" neck tension, but no more.
Using fire formed brass set the shoulder back 0.0015" - 0.002" max. Many folks overdo resizing which causes accuracy to degrade and ignition issues.
How does the rifle shoot with factory match ammo like Black Hills or Federal?
Make the rings, bases, and action screws are tight.
always all the above, NOT going to buy shelf ammo Like the way you think you think. Good luck! I have box's and box's of shelf ammo that have bought to shoot different rifles, that are taking up space.
hold on Newt, we got a runaway
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