I would think be able to hold 2-3 MOA at 100 yds would be the minimum. If you can't hit a large great fruit at 100 you need more practice before shooting at an animal

I don't think there is a set standard. I see alot of people saying X-MOAs at 100 yds.

I think if you are going to shoot at animals at 100 yds, that it fine. But I think you need to practice at the maximum distance you are possibly going to have to shoot a target.

I understand that small MOAs at 100 yds translate to less error at a greater distance, but there is a mental aspect to shooting at something farther away than something nearby.

If you can hit a small dessert plate at varying expected target distances (for the sake of argument, in 50 yard intervals), I think that would be reasonable for a hunter to attempt a humane kill.


But, the more practice... the better.

And I would put my wife up against most of the people on the forum for pistol shooting.

Agreed. The sport is plagued with those who consider hitting a target with a single shot just to "check their zero" as all they need to prepare for the season. It's a much greater challenge to do it five or more times without ever being off target.

I might even bump that number up to 10.

Depends what your hunting, I wouldnt do a western style elk or mule deer hunt without being able to shoot 400 yds because you will get oppurtunitues at that distance 100-200 yds not so much, whitetail hunting a shoiter ahould be able to consustently shoot 200 tds accurately.

I used to see this at the public ranges. People staple up a 9" paper plate because that is the approximate size of the kill zone of deer and whatever distance they can hit is at, they consider themselves zeroed and GTG, usually 50 or 100 yards. They might be 4" high or low, left or right, but "if it is on paper, then it is venison in the freezer," one fellow told me. The problem is that if you can only group on a 9" plate under no pressure and no time constraints, in broad daylight, what is going to happen to you in the field when the adrenaline kicks in and you see that buck 20 minutes after sundown in low light?



Actually, if they are shooting a Hornady factory 150 gr SST round that they have zeroed at 50 yards, then the are about perfect for 175 yards, only about 3/4" low - which is pretty darned good. That of course assumes that they are actually zeroed and actually know the ballistics of their round.

I was continually amazed by the folks that would show up at the range the weekend before deer season and consider "being on paper" good enough to hunt deer. Some had 9" paper plates, 8.5x11" paper, or 8" shoot-n-see.



A hunter that can shoot little bitty groups at the range probably knows his gun, ammo, and ballistics and has a much better chance of getting a deer than the hunters who shoot a 7" group on a paper plate and consider themselves "ready for deer season." It is naive to believe that a person who isn't proficient at the range will become proficient in the field. That person may get lucky once in a while, but that is about it. You blast away at enough deer over the season and you will come home with one.



No, a whole lot really don't. Many of the hunters that prepare for the season or who have a life time of proper experience may know when they can and cannot take a shot, but far too many people are consumed with buck fever, running out of daylight, running out of weekend, or running out of season and who blast away with hail Mary shots. Some of these are new hunters. Some are new shooters. Some are life long hunters that get their rifles bore-sighted at the local gun store before they go hunt.

I have never figured out why it is that hunters pay so much money for gear, travel, leases, guides, etc. and then expect their shots to magically connect with their targets when they get into the field, having done very little actual prep beyond packing for the trip and buying beer.



You may be on the same page, but what is the group size?

Dang .... you spent a lot of time breaking my post into little sections.

Who said these guys were shooting 150 grain bullets? Heck, I see this with muzzleloaders, 223s, 308s, 30-06s, you name it. Bottom line is that they have ZERO idea what they are doing at ranges over 50 yards.

Who said where the people that are zeroing at 50 and who say they don't usually have a shot beyond 50 will get a shot out to 175 yards? Their logic about not having a shot over 50 yards may be quite solid for where they are hunting. If you have a 60 yard clearing that you hunt, then it is pretty silly to have a 100 yard zero.

You're just wanting an argument over hypothetical circumstances ....

Nice! Thank you...

Who knows. I practiced when I was younger, but I don't think it helped too much I was used to running the woods shooting stuff my whole life, moving from a 22 or bb gun to a rifle was little change.

My I took my wife to practice a bit, she has never lost, missed, or wounded a deer, but the last 3 she shot weren't hit where they were supposed to be....

My budy took his wife she hadn't practiced, handed her his 7mm wby and said shoot it in the center of the neck and she has collected several deer without issue.

This is the problem with too many people today. I've helped at the range the two weekends before rifle season and seen the high percentage of guys who show up and can't shoot, don't have the right caliber ammo, have mixed ammo of the right caliber like 150 grain, 165 grain '06 ammo or equipment not set up right like scopes not tight or level. It's scary to me that these folks represent the hunting community.

We have some short shots on my place because of the thick woods. If you can shoot a paint can with an open site 30/30 at 25 to 50 yards its plenty good enough.

shoot! and shoot often...Teddy Roosevelt

I once missed a deer with a shotgun at less than 10 yards. Guess I'm out forever.

But I did shoot this 5 shot group the other day with my .308 at 100 yards. That's a half inch bull on the target.

I have seen this. They have ammo to "sight in with" and ammo to "hunt with" and the sighting in ammo may be nothing like the hunting ammo. However, you don't want to waste your expensive hunting ammo on paper right? So you never shoot your hunting ammo at the range.

If someone is hunting on my ranch, I ask them to put three shots within 3" of bullseye at 100 yards. If they can do that, I will give them the green light to hunt. I prefer a tighter group, but most shots at the stands I put them in will be around 100 yards. Most of my hunting buddies can group 1", and are comfortable up to 200 yards at 2-3", which is what I'd like to see, ideally, and they know what shots they can ethically make.

Even when friends come in and say they are sighted in, and I know they are capable hunters, I still ask them to go to our range and take a couple shots at 100 yards to make sure their scopes didn't get bumped or anything in the trip over. Seen it happen before. I take my practice shots as well, every time. It is my ethical responsibility to make sure I, along with my friends & family, will be able to hit the target they are aiming at. I spend a lot of time and money on my place, and I care about the ethical shots everyone takes. I also go over gun safety with them before every hunt, and review pictures of what is on the hit list and what is not. Had one friend laugh and say something last season to the effect that I do this every hunting season and when will I stop? I told him he was free to hunt elsewhere, if he didn't want to listen to a 3 minute safety speech/reminder and take 2-3 shots at a range before each hunting season. My ranch. My rules. Later that day he actually thanked me for doing this. It was how I was raised and how I will always be.

By the way, in response to the above posts, I'v also seen a lot of hunters that use "sighting in ammo" and then "hunting ammo". I can understand using a less expensive and similar grain ammo to get on paper when 1st sighting in a new scope, but after that, you should use the same ammo to dial in as the ammo you plan to shoot in the field.

Very reasonable, George. I wish more land owners would do the same.

I like to shoot my bow before I hunt each trip to the lease as well.