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#6503464 - 10/19/16 10:28 PM MPBR
postoak Online   content
Veteran Tracker

Registered: 08/19/09
Posts: 2578
Loc: The Woodlands, Tx
Does any one sight their hunting rifles in using a maximum point blank range for a 3" rise and fall from line-of-sight?

Chuck Hawk rifle trajectory table

Using this method you only have to remember the MPBR for your caliber and bullet weight and you hold dead on to that range. After that you have to remember drop figures but for most rifles game will be taken inside MPBR.

One cool thing about that table is it allows you to easily see what the flattest shooting calibers are.
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#6503613 - 10/20/16 06:59 AM Re: MPBR [Re: postoak]
stxranchman Offline
Obie Juan Kenobi

Registered: 08/04/10
Posts: 52092
We used to sight in at 25 yards when reloading for our .270 with 130 grain bullets. We were good to 300 yards with that zero and it was back in the bulleye at 240 or so yards IIRC. Put you about the same numbers as his chart for .270 130 grains. We used the same 25 yard sight in for 6mm with 105 grain bullets also. I have now gotten so used to 100 yard zero since that is all I sight in at for the .270 and do not change my shot placement till I get out to 225 yards or more. My .280 is sighted in at 200 yard zero and has a BRH scope on it and I would not change shot placement out to 275 yards with it.
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#6503654 - 10/20/16 07:35 AM Re: MPBR [Re: postoak]
Deerhunter61 Online   content
THF Trophy Hunter

Registered: 08/27/08
Posts: 5567
Loc: DFW
Interesting stuff...I hunt with my 6.5 CM and a MIL/MIL scope on it so hold is very straight forward. I will say that sighting in my rifle at almost 3"s high at 100 yds when most of my shots are around 100-150 seems unnecessary but it's still interesting.

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#6503762 - 10/20/16 08:37 AM Re: MPBR [Re: postoak]
ChadTRG42 Offline
THF Trophy Hunter

Registered: 09/16/09
Posts: 9433
Loc: Lewisville, TX
MPBR induces error into where the bullet will impact. Anytime you induce error, it reduces likely hood of making a good shot and not making a clean kill. Why would you want to induce error and not know EXACTLY where the bullet will strike?

Just yesterday a customer of mine told me a hunting trip story from a few weeks ago of a guy on their trip that thought his rifle was sighted in "good enough". They took off over 1 week from work, spent money on the hunt, spent money on elk tags, put in all the time and effort to hunt elk, only to miss 3 elk because the rifle was slightly off. Blows my mind!

I guess you have to figure out what kind of shooter you are. Are you a close enough, or are you a shooter who wants to be precise. I'm a precision shooter and I want to know exactly where the bullet will impact when I pull the trigger.
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#6503915 - 10/20/16 10:25 AM Re: MPBR [Re: ChadTRG42]
Teal28 Online   content
Veteran Tracker

Registered: 12/10/08
Posts: 3362
Loc: Hen House Tx
Originally Posted By: ChadTRG42
MPBR induces error into where the bullet will impact. Anytime you induce error, it reduces likely hood of making a good shot and not making a clean kill. Why would you want to induce error and not know EXACTLY where the bullet will strike?

Just yesterday a customer of mine told me a hunting trip story from a few weeks ago of a guy on their trip that thought his rifle was sighted in "good enough". They took off over 1 week from work, spent money on the hunt, spent money on elk tags, put in all the time and effort to hunt elk, only to miss 3 elk because the rifle was slightly off. Blows my mind!

I guess you have to figure out what kind of shooter you are. Are you a close enough, or are you a shooter who wants to be precise. I'm a precision shooter and I want to know exactly where the bullet will impact when I pull the trigger.


This seems to be the hardest thing to get some people to understand. Have had so many clients and friends Ive guided and shot with be ok with a POI on a sight in target 5" plus off from POA, and say good enough to kill a deer. SMDH.
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#6503934 - 10/20/16 10:38 AM Re: MPBR [Re: postoak]
postoak Online   content
Veteran Tracker

Registered: 08/19/09
Posts: 2578
Loc: The Woodlands, Tx
Chad, that is one way to look at it (and the way I have always looked at it) but when you are going to a new place and you have no idea if your shot will be 60 yards or 300 yards, then MPBR has some merit).

Anyway, I found the table interesting, especially for the .22 LR and .45-70.
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#6503961 - 10/20/16 10:52 AM Re: MPBR [Re: postoak]
Gone to Texas Online   content
Veteran Tracker

Registered: 07/05/13
Posts: 2362
Loc: Hurst
I tried doing this the first season I hunted. I saw a hog at 50 yards, totally over thought the shot and missed him. I don't know if I was high, low, left, or right.

Basically, when I saw the animal I completely forgot everything and lost confidence. Now, I have a FFP scope with clear yardage markings on my turn dials and I always zero at 100 yards. Last season I saw a doe at 200 yards, turned to .4 Mils which is marked by a 2, and anchored her with a neck shot.

I am not saying that sighting in at 100 yards with a FFP Mil/Mil scope is for everyone but I will for sure continue hunt this way.
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#6503967 - 10/20/16 10:55 AM Re: MPBR [Re: postoak]
ChadTRG42 Offline
THF Trophy Hunter

Registered: 09/16/09
Posts: 9433
Loc: Lewisville, TX
The issue I have with MPBR or sighting your rifle in at 1.5" high at 100 yards, is the shooter does not "know" where the bullet will impact at 300 yards. When I talk to a hunter or shooter who has their rifle sighted in with either MPBR or 1.5" high at 100, I ask them how low will they be at 300. The answer is always something like, "It should be 3" low," or "about 4" low". What happened to KNOWING where the bullet is. And most hunters who use these methods do not get the rifle sighted in correctly to begin with.

Point in case was at the Hunters Rifle Challenge match that we do. We had a simple 5 dot drill at 100 yards. 5 dots that are 1" in size, 1 round per dot, 5 rounds total. Technically, every shooter or hunter who has logged onto the internet has a sub MOA rifle, so I expect every shooter to clean this stage. 5, 1" dots at 100 yards should be a piece of cake then. Realistically, over 70% of the shooters scored less than half their hits on the stage. Several shooters who had "sighted their rifle in 1.5" high at 100 yards" were higher, or off their sight in. They would chase their bullet holes, and they didn't know where they were going to hit. They had holes high, low, and all over.

My point is this. You MUST have a solid, dead nuts zero where you KNOW where the bullet will impact. Solid, meaning a point of impact that lines up with your cross hairs. If you don't, you are inducing error and unknown POI into your shooting. This is the difference between just pulling the trigger and shooting close and precision shooting. The thing is, it takes so little effort to go from close to precision shooting!
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#6503979 - 10/20/16 11:04 AM Re: MPBR [Re: postoak]
postoak Online   content
Veteran Tracker

Registered: 08/19/09
Posts: 2578
Loc: The Woodlands, Tx
Which is exactly why I was asking about a 300 yard range near me a few weeks ago. It's fun to shoot at 100, or 200, or 300 and then see where the bullet impact at the other two yardages is.
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#6503994 - 10/20/16 11:12 AM Re: MPBR [Re: ChadTRG42]
redchevy Offline
THF Celebrity

Registered: 10/25/04
Posts: 23463
Loc: Texas
Originally Posted By: ChadTRG42
The issue I have with MPBR or sighting your rifle in at 1.5" high at 100 yards, is the shooter does not "know" where the bullet will impact at 300 yards. When I talk to a hunter or shooter who has their rifle sighted in with either MPBR or 1.5" high at 100, I ask them how low will they be at 300. The answer is always something like, "It should be 3" low," or "about 4" low". What happened to KNOWING where the bullet is. And most hunters who use these methods do not get the rifle sighted in correctly to begin with.

Point in case was at the Hunters Rifle Challenge match that we do. We had a simple 5 dot drill at 100 yards. 5 dots that are 1" in size, 1 round per dot, 5 rounds total. Technically, every shooter or hunter who has logged onto the internet has a sub MOA rifle, so I expect every shooter to clean this stage. 5, 1" dots at 100 yards should be a piece of cake then. Realistically, over 70% of the shooters scored less than half their hits on the stage. Several shooters who had "sighted their rifle in 1.5" high at 100 yards" were higher, or off their sight in. They would chase their bullet holes, and they didn't know where they were going to hit. They had holes high, low, and all over.

My point is this. You MUST have a solid, dead nuts zero where you KNOW where the bullet will impact. Solid, meaning a point of impact that lines up with your cross hairs. If you don't, you are inducing error and unknown POI into your shooting. This is the difference between just pulling the trigger and shooting close and precision shooting. The thing is, it takes so little effort to go from close to precision shooting!


I'd say a 5 dot drill has absolutely zero merit when discussing mpbr and hunting from 0-300 yards.

How on earth do you miss an elk with a gun that is "slightly" off?

Should is nothing more than word choice if sighted correctly and shot correctly it will be where its supposed to be. You say you need to know where it will be, if you zero at 100 and dial a correction for 300 yards you only know as well as you shoot same as MPBR.
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#6504062 - 10/20/16 12:16 PM Re: MPBR [Re: postoak]
BOBO the Clown Offline
decoy

Registered: 04/19/07
Posts: 41127
Loc: Metroplex
My 257 has 300 zero, CM is 100


Verify your ammo through the entire mpbr. Don't trust box specs.

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#6504088 - 10/20/16 12:36 PM Re: MPBR [Re: redchevy]
QuitShootinYoungBucks Online   content
THF Trophy Hunter

Registered: 11/01/12
Posts: 6498
Loc: Lubbock, TX
Originally Posted By: redchevy
Originally Posted By: ChadTRG42
The issue I have with MPBR or sighting your rifle in at 1.5" high at 100 yards, is the shooter does not "know" where the bullet will impact at 300 yards. When I talk to a hunter or shooter who has their rifle sighted in with either MPBR or 1.5" high at 100, I ask them how low will they be at 300. The answer is always something like, "It should be 3" low," or "about 4" low". What happened to KNOWING where the bullet is. And most hunters who use these methods do not get the rifle sighted in correctly to begin with.

Point in case was at the Hunters Rifle Challenge match that we do. We had a simple 5 dot drill at 100 yards. 5 dots that are 1" in size, 1 round per dot, 5 rounds total. Technically, every shooter or hunter who has logged onto the internet has a sub MOA rifle, so I expect every shooter to clean this stage. 5, 1" dots at 100 yards should be a piece of cake then. Realistically, over 70% of the shooters scored less than half their hits on the stage. Several shooters who had "sighted their rifle in 1.5" high at 100 yards" were higher, or off their sight in. They would chase their bullet holes, and they didn't know where they were going to hit. They had holes high, low, and all over.

My point is this. You MUST have a solid, dead nuts zero where you KNOW where the bullet will impact. Solid, meaning a point of impact that lines up with your cross hairs. If you don't, you are inducing error and unknown POI into your shooting. This is the difference between just pulling the trigger and shooting close and precision shooting. The thing is, it takes so little effort to go from close to precision shooting!


I'd say a 5 dot drill has absolutely zero merit when discussing mpbr and hunting from 0-300 yards.

How on earth do you miss an elk with a gun that is "slightly" off?

Should is nothing more than word choice if sighted correctly and shot correctly it will be where its supposed to be. You say you need to know where it will be, if you zero at 100 and dial a correction for 300 yards you only know as well as you shoot same as MPBR.


I think Chad's point was that not only should you know where it will hit, you've tested it at 300 to be sure that that is where it's hitting. If you sight in a rifle 3" high at 100, 'assuming' a chart is accurate for all rifle and load combinations is not a good plan. There are factors such as barrel length and scope height to take into account, and differences in off-hand, bench, bag, bipod, etc.

Shoot it, and know for sure.
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#6504107 - 10/20/16 12:54 PM Re: MPBR [Re: postoak]
Creedmoor Online   content
Tracker

Registered: 09/12/16
Posts: 713
Loc: Soon to be Hudson Oaks


A dope chart should be created for every rifle that is going to be used for hunting unless the shooter is willing to accept that he can't shoot past proven yardages.

We sight in on center at 200 yards. Then we back up to 100 yards and see where we are. Same thing at 50 yards and then at 300 yards. Everything is written down. If we have a 400 & 500 yard range available we also shoot them for definite POI. If these 400 & 500 ranges can't be verified, we look at a ballistics calculator and go from there. If you have data from 50, 100, & 200 yards you can dial in the longer ranges within 1"-2" with a good calculator.

The bottom line is that unless you've actually seen where the bullet is impacting you're guessing. I won't take a rifle into the field that requires a guess.

I'm with Chad on this one. I want to know where my rifle is going to shoot. Not only is it being responsible (no offense meant!) but it instills confidence for me.
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#6504125 - 10/20/16 01:08 PM Re: MPBR [Re: postoak]
redchevy Offline
THF Celebrity

Registered: 10/25/04
Posts: 23463
Loc: Texas
I guess I take shooting it at 300 to make sure that's what/all it drops etc as a given, the same load will not make the same velocity out of all guns and a lot of factory ammo doesn't live up to the numbers on the box and a lot of load data doesn't live up to the numbers on the pages.
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#6504132 - 10/20/16 01:10 PM Re: MPBR [Re: postoak]
Sirrah243 Offline
Pro Tracker

Registered: 11/05/09
Posts: 1832
Loc: Llano County TX
I've been sighting in MPBR for years and it's always worked for me except that one time I forgot to compesate and shot over a bobcat at 100 yds. Deer and Hogs, no prob.
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