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#6496243 - 10/15/16 08:45 AM Young dogs- shooting wild birds
pharmvet Offline
Pro Tracker

Registered: 11/10/07
Posts: 1094
Loc: North East Tx
Ok, seems like the vast majority of what I read and am told is that wild birds are the best thing for young dogs/ pups. I hear it over and over that wild birds will teach the dog. Seems that it's ok for young dogs to flush, and chase wild birds. So here is my question:

When your young dog gets into wild birds, will you shoot birds that he bumps, flushes, tries yo pounce on? Or do you wait until he makes a solid point and let's you walk in to flush the bird before you shoot one?


Edited by pharmvet (10/15/16 09:01 AM)

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#6496250 - 10/15/16 08:51 AM Re: Young dogs- shooting wild birds [Re: pharmvet]
Catch Dog Offline
Tracker

Registered: 08/11/14
Posts: 574
Loc: Texas
That's a good question that I would like to know the answer to also.

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#6496267 - 10/15/16 09:04 AM Re: Young dogs- shooting wild birds [Re: pharmvet]
Barny Topwater Offline
red bone Bob

Registered: 11/22/09
Posts: 2442
Loc: New Braunfels TX USA
No expert here but you shouldn't shoot bumped birds. The trainer I used told me not to shoot at all last year, it was my mutts first year hunting. I was to make him hold. Let Bill O get on here, his opinions are worth way more than mine
_________________________
.45 ACP It's just silly to shoot twice

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#6496307 - 10/15/16 09:39 AM Re: Young dogs- shooting wild birds [Re: pharmvet]
NorthTXbirdhunter Offline
Tracker

Registered: 03/17/11
Posts: 804
Loc: Rowlett, Texas
When young dogs are in the field, you quit hunting and continue training. Let a 25' heavy check cord be your friend. Let the pup drag it around,but be where you can get the dog stopped around other pointed dogs. Seize the opportunity to work your pup when you see birds on the roads of your lease. Be in control! Control the entire situation. The pup must be pointing or honoring or maintained by the CC before you or anyone else shoots. Remember, you have to take control of the whole scenario you encounter with all the dogs you have down at the time AND THE OTHER HUNTERS with you. Let everyone know what you need to accomplish with each scenario. If you see your pup intentionally bust a covey, you must catch the pup and take it back and set him up sternly at the place he should have pointed them. No shooting until everything is done right. Once your pup's light has seemed to come on, you can proceed to the e-collar and begin using the tone or nick feature turned down real low. You must create the perfect scenario i.e. point, hold, honor, stopped, flush, before any shooting takes place. The shot is the reward for all bird dogs and they only get rewarded for doing everything right. Only shoot correctly pointed birds.

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#6496378 - 10/15/16 10:31 AM Re: Young dogs- shooting wild birds [Re: Barny Topwater]
bill oxner Offline
THF Celebrity

Registered: 11/03/09
Posts: 32639
Loc: Richmond
Originally Posted By: Barny Topwater
No expert here but you shouldn't shoot bumped birds. The trainer I used told me not to shoot at all last year, it was my mutts first year hunting. I was to make him hold. Let Bill O get on here, his opinions are worth way more than mine


I'm no expert either but I simply don't shoot unpointed birds. I'm not there for dead birds. The e-collar is my CC. Haven't used a CC in the field in years.
_________________________
Quail hunting is like walking into, and out of a beautiful painting all day long. Gene Hill




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#6496381 - 10/15/16 10:34 AM Re: Young dogs- shooting wild birds [Re: pharmvet]
68rustbucket Offline
Tracker

Registered: 10/21/08
Posts: 579
Loc: San Marcos, TX
Good advice North, but not all dogs react the same to "sternly" replacing. I did that with my Britt when I was training with pen raised birds and launchers. I was letting her chase for quite a while. The first time I whoaed her after a launch, and reset the dog to the original spot, a light came on but the wrong one. I released her and moved toward the next launcher set. She proceeded to BLINK the next 2 launcher setups. I then picked her up and went home. Took her to Ronnie Smith and had him restart the trains process to fix the issue I created. I guess the point is you have to be careful about corrections.

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#6496388 - 10/15/16 10:40 AM Re: Young dogs- shooting wild birds [Re: pharmvet]
bill oxner Offline
THF Celebrity

Registered: 11/03/09
Posts: 32639
Loc: Richmond
I don't leave unbroken pups down for long periods of time. I like to collar condition them before I take them on a real hunt.
_________________________
Quail hunting is like walking into, and out of a beautiful painting all day long. Gene Hill




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#6496400 - 10/15/16 10:55 AM Re: Young dogs- shooting wild birds [Re: 68rustbucket]
NorthTXbirdhunter Offline
Tracker

Registered: 03/17/11
Posts: 804
Loc: Rowlett, Texas
68,
When I say "sternly", all I am doing is catching the pup, picking him up, planting him in the spot, whoaing him, and requiring him to hold and pay attention to the front. Style him up and make him focus. Not Roughing him up other than maybe a slight ear pull. I am not a heavy handed trainer, but I do require the pup to focus on the task at hand. Taking a dog off his feet gets their attention. Don't prolong the correction scene. 30 seconds and be done with it. Go to the next scenario. The worst trainer is a mad trainer. You can't get mad. Expect the worst and create a win with every situation.


Edited by NorthTXbirdhunter (10/15/16 11:55 AM)

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#6496402 - 10/15/16 10:57 AM Re: Young dogs- shooting wild birds [Re: bill oxner]
1okiebirdhunter Offline
Woodsman

Registered: 08/31/08
Posts: 118
My young dogs are whoa broke, holding point and collar conditioned before we hunt. By the why I

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#6496405 - 10/15/16 10:59 AM Re: Young dogs- shooting wild birds [Re: 1okiebirdhunter]
1okiebirdhunter Offline
Woodsman

Registered: 08/31/08
Posts: 118
I use a lot of pen raised birds. Sorry about the post hit wrong button.

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#6496407 - 10/15/16 11:02 AM Re: Young dogs- shooting wild birds [Re: pharmvet]
bill oxner Offline
THF Celebrity

Registered: 11/03/09
Posts: 32639
Loc: Richmond
Switching them to wild birds from pen raised can be timely for some pups. Others switch right over on the first covey.
_________________________
Quail hunting is like walking into, and out of a beautiful painting all day long. Gene Hill




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#6496425 - 10/15/16 11:18 AM Re: Young dogs- shooting wild birds [Re: pharmvet]
pharmvet Offline
Pro Tracker

Registered: 11/10/07
Posts: 1094
Loc: North East Tx
The first bird dog I ever had I got as a puppy. I was about 20 years old and we still had just a few wild birds here at home. I worked with her LOTS, and she was extremely well socialized and handled very well. She was the only dog I had. She had a great nose and extreme prey drive. The first weekend I took her out west she became a hunting dog. I could make her hunt dead and she retrieved everything I shot. All of this came natural to her.
However.........she would hold solid for as long as it took, but once I got about 6 ft from her, she would flush the birds. I accepted this as normal because she was really the first dog I hunted behind. I killed lots of birds over her and she will forever be remembered fondly.



Last year, I got a finished dog and a 6 month old pup. The pup just started naturally backing and eventually pointing on his own. BOTH of these dogs will hold solid and let me walk past them to flush the birds..BOY O BOY WHAT A DIFFERENCE. I get lots more time and don't have to rush the shot, easier to kill multiples as well. Buddy (last years pup) is now 15 mo old and I can't wait to hunt him this year.

Now, regarding the 2 six month old pups I have- I want to make sure they are solid on point and will let me walk in and flush the birds. I don't want to wind up with another dog that jumps in when I get close.


Edited by pharmvet (10/15/16 11:38 AM)

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#6496431 - 10/15/16 11:24 AM Re: Young dogs- shooting wild birds [Re: pharmvet]
blanked Offline
Pro Tracker

Registered: 06/03/07
Posts: 1302
Loc: magnolia tx
IMO. If you get a point at all shoot the bird. This teaches pup 2 things. Together you and him are a team and this is what your after. Also hunt pup alone. Don't want him following older dogs. He needs to learn on his own how to hunt. Don't bring your buddies either. Don't risk them shooting birds that are too close to pup. Hopefully you don't want a close working pointer where you feel the need to hack the dog to keep him close. That's what tracking collars are for.

After a solid first season getting pup to bring out his natural desire to hunt and point birds then the formal training starts


Edited by blanked (10/15/16 11:26 AM)

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#6496455 - 10/15/16 11:51 AM Re: Young dogs- shooting wild birds [Re: pharmvet]
NorthTXbirdhunter Offline
Tracker

Registered: 03/17/11
Posts: 804
Loc: Rowlett, Texas
Originally Posted By: pharmvet
The first bird dog I ever had I got as a puppy. I was about 20 years old and we still had just a few wild birds here at home. I worked with her LOTS, and she was extremely well socialized and handled very well. She was the only dog I had. She had a great nose and extreme prey drive. The first weekend I took her out west she became a hunting dog. I could make her hunt dead and she retrieved everything I shot. All of this came natural to her.
However.........she would hold solid for as long as it took, but once I got about 6 ft from her, she would flush the birds. I accepted this as normal because she was really the first dog I hunted behind. I killed lots of birds over her and she will forever be remembered fondly.



Last year, I got a finished dog and a 6 month old pup. The pup just started naturally backing and eventually pointing on his own. BOTH of these dogs will hold solid and let me walk past them to flush the birds..BOY O BOY WHAT A DIFFERENCE. I get lots more time and don't have to rush the shot, easier to kill multiples as well. Buddy (last years pup) is now 15 mo old and I can't wait to hunt him this year.

Now, regarding the 2 six month old pups I have- I want to make sure they are solid on point and will let me walk in and flush the birds. I don't want to wind up with another dog that jumps in when I get close.



Pharmvet,

When a dog breaks point when you get that close as you described with that dog from yesteryear, change your approach to the flush. Never come into the flush from behind the dog. Swing wider and approach the dog from the front. Breaking point is a no-no even from that distance. If the dog is in the scent-cone and can see you too, there is better chance they will hold. By coming from behind, the dog is thinking you are inviting him to break when you walk past. Be quiet around your dogs on point. The less noise, the better. When you approach from the front, you will see pup get up on his tiptoes and focus because he sees you to. If he still breaks, don't shoot. Catch the dog and re-plant him. He has to learn that only you can flush the birds.

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#6496457 - 10/15/16 11:54 AM Re: Young dogs- shooting wild birds [Re: pharmvet]
NorthTXbirdhunter Offline
Tracker

Registered: 03/17/11
Posts: 804
Loc: Rowlett, Texas
Originally Posted By: pharmvet
The first bird dog I ever had I got as a puppy. I was about 20 years old and we still had just a few wild birds here at home. I worked with her LOTS, and she was extremely well socialized and handled very well. She was the only dog I had. She had a great nose and extreme prey drive. The first weekend I took her out west she became a hunting dog. I could make her hunt dead and she retrieved everything I shot. All of this came natural to her.
However.........she would hold solid for as long as it took, but once I got about 6 ft from her, she would flush the birds. I accepted this as normal because she was really the first dog I hunted behind. I killed lots of birds over her and she will forever be remembered fondly.



Last year, I got a finished dog and a 6 month old pup. The pup just started naturally backing and eventually pointing on his own. BOTH of these dogs will hold solid and let me walk past them to flush the birds..BOY O BOY WHAT A DIFFERENCE. I get lots more time and don't have to rush the shot, easier to kill multiples as well. Buddy (last years pup) is now 15 mo old and I can't wait to hunt him this year.

Now, regarding the 2 six month old pups I have- I want to make sure they are solid on point and will let me walk in and flush the birds. I don't want to wind up with another dog that jumps in when I get close.



Pharmvet,

When a dog breaks point when you get that close as you described with that dog from yesteryear, change your approach to the flush. Never come into the flush from behind the dog. Swing wider and approach the dog from the front. Breaking point is a no-no even from that distance. If the dog is in the scent-cone and can see you too, there is better chance they will hold. By coming from behind, the dog is thinking you are inviting him to break when you walk past. Be quiet around your dogs on point. The less noise, the better. When you approach from the front, you will see pup get up on his tiptoes and focus because he sees you to. If he still breaks, don't shoot. Catch the dog and re-plant him. He has to learn that only you can flush the birds.

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