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#6491329 - 10/11/16 07:35 PM A tale of two spikes
DHS274 Offline
Woodsman

Registered: 09/29/14
Posts: 108


Two spikes, the one on the right appears to be months younger than deer on the left based on body composition, am I misreading the photos? Is it possible they are closer in age than I am thinking? Just different growth patterns for body and antlers.
I just have to wait and see how the one on the left develops. The deer on the right, fairly certain which one he is, and if I am right, that's good antler growth for his age, he has years ahead of him as long he stays on my land and does not wonder into the brown its down hunters.

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#6491830 - 10/12/16 07:18 AM Re: A tale of two spikes [Re: DHS274]
Texas Dan Offline
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Registered: 07/28/08
Posts: 11272
Just to offer as a benchmark, the photo below shows the shed of a 1-1/2 year old buck with solid genetics. The larger rack is shown only to give reference to the size of the shed.

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Dan,

Spring, Texas

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#6491836 - 10/12/16 07:30 AM Re: A tale of two spikes [Re: DHS274]
fouzman Offline
Pro Tracker

Registered: 08/09/10
Posts: 1014
Loc: Houston, TX
Same age both yearlings although one may be a month older than the other. One is short and squat, the other is tall and long. Two different body types.

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#6492010 - 10/12/16 09:05 AM Re: A tale of two spikes [Re: DHS274]
redchevy Online   content
THF Celebrity

Registered: 10/25/04
Posts: 23463
Loc: Texas
We are far from a trophy managed game ranch, but try to do what we can and we easily have more deer than we would like so we do a little bit of culling. Is it improving the genetics? Probably not but at that point they are deer we don't really want to keep so its better that they are gone and it isn't going to hurt the genetics and it provides a scratch for the itchy fingers after all we are out there to shoot something.

I'm not going to say to kill all spikes across the board, but I'm not against shooting a few either. In the past few years we have shot a couple that by body size and teeth were older than 1.5 years old. If they are noticeably inferior to the rest of their age group they get a free lesson in sausage making.
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#6492052 - 10/12/16 09:36 AM Re: A tale of two spikes [Re: Texas Dan]
BOBO the Clown Offline
decoy

Registered: 04/19/07
Posts: 41125
Loc: Metroplex
Originally Posted By: Texas Dan
Just to offer as a benchmark, the photo below shows the shed of a 1-1/2 year old buck with solid genetics. The larger rack is shown only to give reference to the size of the shed.



Neither are an indication of what a deer was as a yearling or what he will be as mature. The bigger rack could of been a spike as a yearling. If I followed your methodology I would assume the 10pt frame was a spike since he has after thought fourths, to a point he was most likely a 8 or 9 the year before.

Spike "management" only makes sense if you can fully exterminate all of them every year and you are close to CC or above.

Being that most people don't have the tag numbers to fully implement a cull strategy on younger deer, taking or not taking a spike will have no long term effects on trophy quality. Only think it will effect us bucks making it to maturity.

To the OP you like him... smoke him, literally. Can't beat smoked sausage(fresh or dried)

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#6492147 - 10/12/16 10:21 AM Re: A tale of two spikes [Re: BOBO the Clown]
Texas Dan Offline
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Registered: 07/28/08
Posts: 11272
Originally Posted By: BOBO the Clown
Neither are an indication of what a deer was as a yearling or what he will be as mature. The bigger rack could of been a spike as a yearling. If I followed your methodology I would assume the 10pt frame was a spike since he has after thought fourths, to a point he was most likely a 8 or 9 the year before.

Spike "management" only makes sense if you can fully exterminate all of them every year and you are close to CC or above.

Being that most people don't have the tag numbers to fully implement a cull strategy on younger deer, taking or not taking a spike will have no long term effects on trophy quality. Only think it will effect us bucks making it to maturity.


As noted earlier, the larger rack was shown ONLY to provide reference to the size of the shed.

The point not to be missed IMO is how the shed demonstrates clearly that differences in genetics can appear much sooner than some are willing to believe.

As for these two deer, I would take the taller spike in a heartbeat because he carries the appearance of a future "top hat" buck that might never develop a rack wide enough to satisfy the 13-inch rule, given these deer are outide a managed area in county where AR's are in place.


Edited by Texas Dan (10/12/16 10:28 AM)
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Spring, Texas

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#6492157 - 10/12/16 10:26 AM Re: A tale of two spikes [Re: DHS274]
BOBO the Clown Offline
decoy

Registered: 04/19/07
Posts: 41125
Loc: Metroplex
And that's the point... what was the shed at 2.5, 3.5, 4.5, 6.5, 7.5, 8.5?

He may of very well stayed an 8 his whole life. Infact that could be his second set of horns, he could of been a spike the year before... or a forky

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#6492161 - 10/12/16 10:30 AM Re: A tale of two spikes [Re: BOBO the Clown]
Texas Dan Offline
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Registered: 07/28/08
Posts: 11272
Originally Posted By: BOBO the Clown
And that's the point... what was the shed at 2.5, 3.5, 4.5, 6.5, 7.5, 8.5?

He may of very well stayed an 8 his whole life. Infact that could be his second set of horns, he could of been a spike the year before... or a forky


Based on the size and mass, I would safely call the shed as coming from a 1-1/2 year old deer.

Keep in mind too the size of the pedicles which grow larger as the deer ages will dictate the size of the rack at it's base. That too makes it obvious the shed came from a young buck. Should you find a 8-year-old buck with such small pedicles, he's worth the freak show for sure.
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Dan,

Spring, Texas

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#6492207 - 10/12/16 10:55 AM Re: A tale of two spikes [Re: Texas Dan]
BOBO the Clown Offline
decoy

Registered: 04/19/07
Posts: 41125
Loc: Metroplex
Originally Posted By: Texas Dan
Originally Posted By: BOBO the Clown
And that's the point... what was the shed at 2.5, 3.5, 4.5, 6.5, 7.5, 8.5?

He may of very well stayed an 8 his whole life. Infact that could be his second set of horns, he could of been a spike the year before... or a forky


Based on the size and mass, I would safely call the shed as coming from a 1-1/2 year old deer.

Keep in mind too the size of the pedicles which grow larger as the deer ages will dictate the size of the rack at it's base. That too makes it obvious the shed came from a young buck. Should you find a 8-year-old buck with such small pedicles, he's worth the freak show for sure.


So pedicle size is a better measurement of age then historically individual history or tooth wear?

Don't bet to much on it. Pedicle size varies in size in all age classes, and even amoung individual herds, as does mass and length

Again that could very well been the deers second set of antlers.

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#6492219 - 10/12/16 11:03 AM Re: A tale of two spikes [Re: DHS274]
redchevy Online   content
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Registered: 10/25/04
Posts: 23463
Loc: Texas
Started a new topic.


Edited by redchevy (10/12/16 11:10 AM)
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#6492277 - 10/12/16 11:40 AM Re: A tale of two spikes [Re: BOBO the Clown]
Texas Dan Offline
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Registered: 07/28/08
Posts: 11272
Originally Posted By: BOBO the Clown
Pedicle size varies in size in all age classes, and even amoung individual herds, as does mass and length


You're right. There are lots of photos here and around the Web of older bucks with a set of pencil horns.
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Dan,

Spring, Texas

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#6492299 - 10/12/16 11:54 AM Re: A tale of two spikes [Re: Texas Dan]
redchevy Online   content
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Registered: 10/25/04
Posts: 23463
Loc: Texas
Originally Posted By: Texas Dan
Originally Posted By: BOBO the Clown
Pedicle size varies in size in all age classes, and even amoung individual herds, as does mass and length


You're right. There are lots of photos here and around the Web of older bucks with a set of pencil horns.


This buck is 5.5 YO and had very pencil thin horns. Several 2-3 yo bucks had similar mass.
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#6492446 - 10/12/16 01:27 PM Re: A tale of two spikes [Re: redchevy]
Texas Dan Offline
THF Celebrity

Registered: 07/28/08
Posts: 11272
Originally Posted By: redchevy
Originally Posted By: Texas Dan
Originally Posted By: BOBO the Clown
Pedicle size varies in size in all age classes, and even amoung individual herds, as does mass and length


You're right. There are lots of photos here and around the Web of older bucks with a set of pencil horns.


This buck is 5.5 YO and had very pencil thin horns. Several 2-3 yo bucks had similar mass.





But ask youself, was he really in the same class as other five-year-olds for the area?

The issue IS NOT that spikes can grow up to have better racks. The issue is their ability to develop racks that equal those of their peers who carried forked horns at 1-1/2.

Not to offend, but that's a very poor looking 5-1/2 year buck relative to many others in that same age class. He may in fact be very representative of what to expect from most spikes once they reach that age.

Keep in mind too the much larger rack in the photo that shared earlier was just 3-1/2 years old.
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Dan,

Spring, Texas

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#6492462 - 10/12/16 01:37 PM Re: A tale of two spikes [Re: DHS274]
redchevy Online   content
THF Celebrity

Registered: 10/25/04
Posts: 23463
Loc: Texas
Better than some worse than most grin
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