Maybe.

But in this case, myself and several others have observed the SS to have better clarity than a Gen I and Gen II Razor, when shooting 1500 yards.

There are plenty of times people buy something just for the name on the side. A Yeti cooler is a good example, though there are scores of roto mold coolers available, with better features, who knows the percentage of consumers that buy the Yeti simply because Yeti has done a better job of marketing themselves.

Wow, that is a very intellectual response and well spoken. Well done Jason, Well done sir.

So there is amount of perception in scopes. You have your views. I know a lot of people think the razor is better than the ss scopes.

In terms of yeti. Why are all the comparisons against yeti. They are perceived as the best. Therefore some people buy other brands because they feel there performance is close enough without paying the full price. Certainly in all industries there will be people that buy because of brands. But on the whole most people do not buy based on brand loyalty alone. Moreover your viewing coolers as Roto mold and not. I would argue that it's one big industry and yeti redefined what the 100% is and people are still buying other products because they don't need Roto mold

I'm only asking here, but doesn't that identify FiremanJG's point?

I think it does. Like cleric said though, it is true of most any category of products. What immediately comes to mind is binoculars. Try telling someone a Tract Toric is just as good as a proven SLC HD, Meostar HD, Gold Ring HD, Conquest HD, and Vortex Razor HD, and they won't believe it. I've done side by side testing and know it is, but some people will not believe it due to brand loyalty and bias.

Back to SWFA scopes. So whats Black Friday gonna look like this year Skylar? I need a new scope, rings and based on previous years seems like I'd be stupid to not wait another month

Interesting, when I looked through them at the TTHA Extravaganza, they looked good, and if I was to compare it to something, I would say similar to Nikon Monarch 7 or perhaps the Vortex Viper HD. They are good bino, but to my eyes, I cannot honestly comment that they stack up against the Alpha's from Europe. Now that to my eyes and we maybe different.

While I'm glad you have brought that up, I'm not certain just yet. Our marketing team has laser like focus on our website at the moment and making the interface more user friendly (In stock status and other features) Although they are also working on that sale too. The details have not been shared.

Sadly I do not know what it is going to be just yet.

You were indoors though, right? I also had them in Namibia recently, where there were SLCneu, Conquest HD, and SLC wb in the house. The Toric was easily best of the bunch and everyone agreed. To each his own though.

No sir, I know John and John. I was discussing there new product with them in great detail before the show opened the doors outside. Agree that they are well made. I just cannot honestly say that they have the same or greater visual appeal that I find from Swarovski or Leica.

Sounds good. As much as I love the Toric, the finest binocular I've ever used is my 10x50SV.......stunning is the word.

If you can't shoot with an SWFA, you can't shoot with the other either. JMHO

You asked about the scopes, get nothing but good reports, and then say they're not good enough for you because their price implies a lack of performance? That's comical.

I know SWFA scopes have an excellent reputation for dead nuts reliability and durability of their scopes and turrets with the long range shooting community.

Patriot07,

If I'm paying for one then I'm gonna buy what I want. Now that y'all have securely supported SWFA with answers and proven track record it's one thing. I was working a trade and it wasn't an HD model so I held off. Hopefully they add a factory zero stop soon also. That would help alot

Mudd, our non-HD models are made well too. It's difficult for everyone to justify what it is most like. I can tell you that the non-HD is not the same quality as the European stuff out there. However it is very close to what you can find from Leupold's VX-3, Zeiss' Conquest line, and Nikon Monarch. Optically it is right on par with all of those.

However the secret sauce for SS is mil-dot confidence. We put laser focus on TRUE tracking. FiremanJG can account for how accurate this statement is. I know that many other can as well. However this is truly Fireman's soap box, isn't it, Jason?

Trust me when I tell you that our SS is well made. However trust me when I also tell you that there are several manufactures out there today who are also producing high quality product. I try to be unbiased. I know to some that may seem comical, but given the scenario, if you were to call me and say;

Skylar...this is what I'm doing, this is where I'm going, this is the rifle, in this caliber...what do you recommend sir?
I may not even recommend an SS. I will provide you with three options providing you share the above information and your budget with me, tentatively I will email you three rock solid options in a "Good, Better, and Best" category to choose from. You are always welcome to capitalize on what I have provided or forge you own path.

Ultimately it is your money. I appreciate every time someone calls us and asks for me. I like the fact that my input on the product we sell contributes to your success and seeing the tools used from SWFA in successful harvest pictures. There is a lot of great rel world input here.

If there is ever anything I can personally to do to aid in making your decision, you are welcome to call, email or pm here. I would be more than happy to assist you like have I have done for many on this forum.

"But on the whole most people do not buy based on brand loyalty alone".

My experience selling scopes for two years tells me most people are brand loyal to the point of stupidity - when it comes to scopes.

I have no problem with you buying what you want. I have no problem with you posting online and asking for advice. I tend to get aggravated when you ask for advice, get good reports, and then say that you're going a different direction because the scopes are too cheap for you. It just doesn't make sense. If they were too cheap for you, why did you ask in the first place?

Agreed, with binoculars as well. I own, or have owned a few of the Z,L,S "alphas", but I guarantee if there was a way to cover up the emblem or brand, then have people compare them, opinions would not match up to their preconceived notions and biases.

Main scope went down in a match yesterday. I went to the truck, a swapped out for the the ole trusty SS 5-20. Two shots at 100 paper, and I'm back in business. I'll never head far away from home again without the SS in service, or as a backup scope.

FJG,
which scope gave out?

Bushy ERS. The elevation turret stuck when getting to 1.0 Mil. I could muscle it on around, but it made me lose faith in it to continue to run it. What was happening to the erector? Was stuck in my head.

1/2" socket, took the scope and rings off both rifles, then bolted down the SS to the rifle I'm shooting. Quick bore sight, one shot at 100, measured that it needed .8 right, .2 up, shot two was on the money. Done here, and back in service. The whole process took about 10 minutes.

Skylar I shot you a Pm

Received and returned. Both of those are very good, either way, they will both serve you for a long time.

Thank you sir