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FPS without Chrono #6477063 10/02/16 05:12 PM
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Is there a way to get close on FPS without the aid of a Chrono?

Shooting 165 grain SST over 44 grains of Varget out of an 18 inch 308 bolt gun.

Re: FPS without Chrono [Re: bigjoe8565] #6477073 10/02/16 05:23 PM
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Yes, you can get close by shooting at various ranges and using trajectory...BUT, it involves the BC of your bullet also and sometimes published BCs just don't match up to the real world. Another complication can result from the quality of stabilization. There is an ideal BC that may be published for any bullet but it assumes perfect stabilization. On each individual real-world shot, though, there will be an actual achieved BC. It can all be pretty complicated because there are variables you can't nail down.


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Re: FPS without Chrono [Re: bigjoe8565] #6477087 10/02/16 05:32 PM
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A chrono is a must for any reloader.. Best way to find pressure.. and test temp sensitive powders also.


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Re: FPS without Chrono [Re: parkj5] #6477160 10/02/16 06:30 PM
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Originally Posted By: parkj5
A chrono is a must for any reloader.. Best way to find pressure.. and test temp sensitive powders also.


Just to add, it's only ONE thing in interpreting pressures. Your eyes can tell you more than any chronograph ever will when it comes to pressure signs. It's a good tool, but depending on it to show pressure signs is a recipe for disaster.


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Re: FPS without Chrono [Re: bigjoe8565] #6477229 10/02/16 07:51 PM
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That said, high velocity is a great and unerring indicator of pressure where there are no visible signs.


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Re: FPS without Chrono [Re: bigjoe8565] #6477262 10/02/16 08:14 PM
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Pressure Trace II, been shooting one for 12 years now.


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Re: FPS without Chrono [Re: Creedmoor] #6477285 10/02/16 08:42 PM
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Originally Posted By: Creedmoor
Originally Posted By: parkj5
A chrono is a must for any reloader.. Best way to find pressure.. and test temp sensitive powders also.


Just to add, it's only ONE thing in interpreting pressures. Your eyes can tell you more than any chronograph ever will when it comes to pressure signs. It's a good tool, but depending on it to show pressure signs is a recipe for disaster.


And vice versa as well. You can reach pressure way before you see any of the typical 'signs". Velocity is all about pressure.

Re: FPS without Chrono [Re: bigjoe8565] #6477294 10/02/16 08:53 PM
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Absolutely correct!


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Re: FPS without Chrono [Re: bigjoe8565] #6477326 10/02/16 09:12 PM
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if your pressure signs are good and accuracy is good, you really don't need a chrono, went many, many years killing deer without one.

if you are using your load for 500 yard and out, you might, but with a hunting load as stated above, no chrono needed


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Re: FPS without Chrono [Re: bigjoe8565] #6477390 10/02/16 09:46 PM
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Originally Posted By: Jgraider
[ You can reach pressure way before you see any of the typical 'signs". Velocity is all about pressure.


So you guys are saying that if you work up a load (with appropriate powders for the caliber) without a chronograph you can blow up a gun before you see any pressure signs? No flattened primers, sticky bolt lifts, or other signs? Is that what you are saying?


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Re: FPS without Chrono [Re: bigjoe8565] #6477442 10/02/16 10:30 PM
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No, not at all. A gun doesnt blow up because you're two or three thousand psi over pressure. But, you can easily reach 70000 psi or more before pressure signs appear.


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Re: FPS without Chrono [Re: bigjoe8565] #6477444 10/02/16 10:33 PM
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Velocity is just another indicator, like the other well known pressure signs are...but it's a very good indicator, even if it's not 100% reliable---and it is NOT.


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Re: FPS without Chrono [Re: bigjoe8565] #6477445 10/02/16 10:34 PM
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Anyone remember the Powley Computer? According to the article, it was introduced in 1963.

http://www.shootingtimes.com/ammo/ammunition_st_powleycomp_200901/


Re: FPS without Chrono [Re: bigjoe8565] #6477458 10/02/16 10:44 PM
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Oh, someone put the Powley Computer online.

Powley Computer


Re: FPS without Chrono [Re: bigjoe8565] #6477565 10/02/16 11:53 PM
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I have no pressure signs at 44 or even 44.5, but at 45 the bolt got a little stiff to open. My accuracy node is 44 grains of Varget .75" on average, but at 44.5 my accuracy is 1-1.1"on average.

I was looking for FPS to run the data through a ballistic calculator. Guess I'll buy a chrono. Any recommendations on a reliable chrono that won't break the bank?

Re: FPS without Chrono [Re: bigjoe8565] #6477581 10/03/16 12:04 AM
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I'm happy with my ProChrono, and it appears to be the best inexpensive chrono on the market. I'll probably break the piggy bank and buy a Lab Radar next year, but there's no rush. The ProChrono isn't perfect, but really is pretty good.


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Re: FPS without Chrono [Re: bigjoe8565] #6477600 10/03/16 12:18 AM
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I used a Chrony for a long time. I guess it's better than nothing, but I watched a Youtube video where a guy ran shots through a Chrony and a Oehler 35 back to back. The Chrony reported average velocities within only a few fps of the Oehler, but the variance between the two on individual shots was a real eye opener (up to about 60 fps on individual shots). My conclusion was that the stats (ES and SD, in particular) which I have been logging over the years are very questionable at best. I found a reasonably priced 35P and now it's mine.

I guess the bottom line is something is better than nothing, and depending on your intent and how you want to use it, a cheap chronograph can get you by...but the old saying always will come back to haunt: you get what you pay for.


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Re: FPS without Chrono [Re: bigjoe8565] #6477639 10/03/16 12:44 AM
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I have the Oeheler35 for 18 years and still works, I only had to replace two orange sunscreens due to broken clips.

Last edited by Big Stan; 10/03/16 12:45 AM.
Re: FPS without Chrono [Re: RiverRider] #6478973 10/03/16 09:13 PM
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Originally Posted By: RiverRider
No, not at all. A gun doesnt blow up because you're two or three thousand psi over pressure. But, you can easily reach 70000 psi or more before pressure signs appear.


Absolutely. Reloading without a chrono is not a great idea IMO if you're searching for a max velocity/max accuracy load. I can tell you that after loading for my 7mags for over 30 years, best accuracy is usually approaching max velocity/pressure. You can't find it without a chrono.

Re: FPS without Chrono [Re: bigjoe8565] #6479014 10/03/16 09:34 PM
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I would be lost without a good chrono. What makes it worse, is buying a cheap chrono, and getting wrong data, and going off of that wrong data. I use the chrono to tell me just as much info, if not more, than what my groups look like.


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Re: FPS without Chrono [Re: bigjoe8565] #6479164 10/03/16 10:53 PM
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Right now I'm using a prochrono, looking to upgrade. What are the suggestions for a new one in the 200-350 price range. The one I have now seems to be working ok but better to be safe.

Re: FPS without Chrono [Re: bigjoe8565] #6479256 10/03/16 11:41 PM
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I work up looking for extractor marks. Once the load is decided I shoot to 800. Adjust MV in the calculator until the corrections match what I just shot.


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Re: FPS without Chrono [Re: jlsbassman] #6479320 10/04/16 12:17 AM
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Originally Posted By: jlsbassman
Right now I'm using a prochrono, looking to upgrade. What are the suggestions for a new one in the 200-350 price range. The one I have now seems to be working ok but better to be safe.


For that price range, a Magneto is hard to beat.


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Re: FPS without Chrono [Re: J.G.] #6479416 10/04/16 01:11 AM
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Originally Posted By: FiremanJG
I work up looking for extractor marks. Once the load is decided I shoot to 800. Adjust MV in the calculator until the corrections match what I just shot.



So, when you see extractor marks appear, what pressure level do you think you have reached?


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Re: FPS without Chrono [Re: RiverRider] #6479546 10/04/16 02:34 AM
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I bet its hot enough. I must have been a little bold when I worked a round robin test on Hybrid 100 V for the 6.5 Creedmoor, a few weeks ago,with the 30.5 inch barrel that the hottest load showed extractor marks when there was no visible signs on the Norma brass, primer pocket, or bolt lift. The muzzle velocity was 3160 with 140 Hybrids. Velocity is also an indicator of pressure.

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