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#6457021 - 09/18/16 09:35 AM Court dismisses case regarding Open Carry and Need for a LTC
RedRanger Offline
Veteran Tracker

Registered: 09/07/04
Posts: 3190
Loc: Frisco, TX / Davao Philippines
I suspect the legislature will have to make a ruling on this soon and maybe clarify the law.

http://www.thetruthaboutguns.com/2016/09/dean-weingarten/charges-dropped-open-carry-activist-texas/
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#6457431 - 09/18/16 02:47 PM Re: Court dismisses case regarding Open Carry and Need for a LTC [Re: RedRanger]
Grizz Online   content
THF Trophy Hunter

Registered: 02/28/08
Posts: 5846
Loc: Granbury, TX
I'd be willing to bet there were other factors involved that they didn't want to mess with that led them to dismiss the case. When the legislature passed the open carry law they left the part of the law that say it's illegal but added an exception if you have a license. Because of that, it is still inherently illegal to open carry a handgun so the only way for you to show you are not violating the law is to show your license. Since open carry was granted by exception the only thing an officer needs to check your license is to see you open carrying.
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#6457676 - 09/18/16 06:29 PM Re: Court dismisses case regarding Open Carry and Need for a LTC [Re: RedRanger]
PaulsBunyan Offline
Woodsman

Registered: 09/10/10
Posts: 232
He had a non resident Florida ltc...didn't disclose it at the time of arrest is what I've read

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#6458113 - 09/19/16 12:20 AM Re: Court dismisses case regarding Open Carry and Need for a LTC [Re: RedRanger]
Greg Offline
Extreme Tracker

Registered: 11/15/05
Posts: 4451
Loc: McKinney
A non-resident Florida LTC holder... confused2 Say it ain't so RedRanger. roflmao
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#6458168 - 09/19/16 06:23 AM Re: Court dismisses case regarding Open Carry and Need for a LTC [Re: Greg]
RedRanger Offline
Veteran Tracker

Registered: 09/07/04
Posts: 3190
Loc: Frisco, TX / Davao Philippines
Originally Posted By: Greg
A non-resident Florida LTC holder... confused2 Say it ain't so RedRanger. roflmao


I wasn't aware of that fact. But pretty funny
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#6458608 - 09/19/16 11:11 AM Re: Court dismisses case regarding Open Carry and Need for a LTC [Re: RedRanger]
billybob Online   content
Extreme Tracker

Registered: 02/28/10
Posts: 3506
Loc: Southlake, TX, Billy Bob Ranch...
The DB was asking for it....hope he had a great time behind bars. I wouldn't have thought Southlake would wuss on the issue. If you don't have a LTC and you are carrying you need to spend some time n jail. If you have one and a cop asked you for it you need to show it to him or spend some time in jail and have your license revoked.
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http://billybobknives.shutterfly.com

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#6459338 - 09/19/16 06:57 PM Re: Court dismisses case regarding Open Carry and Need for a LTC [Re: billybob]
bucksnbass357 Offline
THF Trophy Hunter

Registered: 12/20/09
Posts: 6458
Loc: Grapevine, TX USA
Originally Posted By: billybob
The DB was asking for it....hope he had a great time behind bars. I wouldn't have thought Southlake would wuss on the issue. If you don't have a LTC and you are carrying you need to spend some time n jail. If you have one and a cop asked you for it you need to show it to him or spend some time in jail and have your license revoked.


Give em hell BillyBob. I'm right there with you sir. cheers

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#6459842 - 09/20/16 06:32 AM Re: Court dismisses case regarding Open Carry and Need for a LTC [Re: Grizz]
RedRanger Offline
Veteran Tracker

Registered: 09/07/04
Posts: 3190
Loc: Frisco, TX / Davao Philippines
Originally Posted By: Grizz
I'd be willing to bet there were other factors involved that they didn't want to mess with that led them to dismiss the case. When the legislature passed the open carry law they left the part of the law that say it's illegal but added an exception if you have a license. Because of that, it is still inherently illegal to open carry a handgun so the only way for you to show you are not violating the law is to show your license. Since open carry was granted by exception the only thing an officer needs to check your license is to see you open carrying.


Fair Enough

Why will the police not check guys standing on the corner looking for work that I see in almost all cities in North Texas?

Every time I have asked a LEO I have been told they don't enforce Federal Laws only state laws.

USCIS clearly states if you are Permanent Residence (GreenCard Holder) you must have it in your possession at all times, that is what give you legal right to be in USA and work in USA if you are an immigrant.

USCIS is division of Department of Homeland Security

https://my.uscis.gov/helpcenter/article/what-should-i-do-with-my-permanent-resident-card
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#6460622 - 09/20/16 03:04 PM Re: Court dismisses case regarding Open Carry and Need for a LTC [Re: RedRanger]
Grizz Online   content
THF Trophy Hunter

Registered: 02/28/08
Posts: 5846
Loc: Granbury, TX
Originally Posted By: RedRanger
Originally Posted By: Grizz
I'd be willing to bet there were other factors involved that they didn't want to mess with that led them to dismiss the case. When the legislature passed the open carry law they left the part of the law that say it's illegal but added an exception if you have a license. Because of that, it is still inherently illegal to open carry a handgun so the only way for you to show you are not violating the law is to show your license. Since open carry was granted by exception the only thing an officer needs to check your license is to see you open carrying.


Fair Enough

Why will the police not check guys standing on the corner looking for work that I see in almost all cities in North Texas?

Every time I have asked a LEO I have been told they don't enforce Federal Laws only state laws.

USCIS clearly states if you are Permanent Residence (GreenCard Holder) you must have it in your possession at all times, that is what give you legal right to be in USA and work in USA if you are an immigrant.

USCIS is division of Department of Homeland Security

https://my.uscis.gov/helpcenter/article/what-should-i-do-with-my-permanent-resident-card


Local law enforcement can't enforce federal law and the Supreme Court has ruled that a state can't pass a law criminalizing a person for being in the country illegally (Arizona v.United States). I don't agree with it, but that's what we have to work with.
If we are dealing with an illegal for something else we can call the Border Patrol to see if they want an INS hold put on the person, but that's very hit and miss.
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#6460749 - 09/20/16 04:07 PM Re: Court dismisses case regarding Open Carry and Need for a LTC [Re: RedRanger]
Slow Drifter Offline


Registered: 04/09/09
Posts: 4256
Loc: Central Texas
I read both "versions" of the law beore it passed. The first "final" version Iread included a provision allowing LEO's to request a LTC just for openly carrying a handgun. This was deemed unconstitutional by the state's AG. That provision was removed. They didn't replace it with a proviion forbidding the practice, they just deleted that paragraph. as soon as I saw that I knew we'd have a Guinea pig carry without a LTC just to see what the courts would do. Asking to see your LTC jut because you're carrying is like pulling you over to see your drivers license just because you're driving.

Open carry without a license is pretty stupid, though. Should the need arise to use the firearm, even in defense of a third party, I can see a conviction happening. Sure, the courts do take into account the circumstances, and they likely would at the moment the firearm was used, but the time it was carried illegaly up to the point it was needed to, say, stop a violent crime, would have to be accounted for. Retrieving a gun from your vehicle to stop a cime is one thing. Having it on your person illegally is a whole other animal. Just how I see it.

edited to add: That raises a question I have. Let's say I'm jay-walking while openly carrying and get halted by an LEO for jay-walking. Can he demand my LTC? I know during a traffic stop if the officer sees or smells evidence of additional violations (beer on your breath, MJ smoke, etc) he can investigate that. But just having a pistol on my hip is not "evidence of criminal activity," it's just an observation. Would that "search and seizure" hold up in court, or not since we have the assumption of innocence?


Edited by Slow Drifter (09/20/16 04:15 PM)
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A. Einstein


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#6461085 - 09/20/16 07:30 PM Re: Court dismisses case regarding Open Carry and Need for a LTC [Re: Slow Drifter]
Grizz Online   content
THF Trophy Hunter

Registered: 02/28/08
Posts: 5846
Loc: Granbury, TX
Originally Posted By: Slow Drifter
I read both "versions" of the law beore it passed. The first "final" version Iread included a provision allowing LEO's to request a LTC just for openly carrying a handgun. This was deemed unconstitutional by the state's AG. That provision was removed. They didn't replace it with a proviion forbidding the practice, they just deleted that paragraph. as soon as I saw that I knew we'd have a Guinea pig carry without a LTC just to see what the courts would do. Asking to see your LTC jut because you're carrying is like pulling you over to see your drivers license just because you're driving.

Open carry without a license is pretty stupid, though. Should the need arise to use the firearm, even in defense of a third party, I can see a conviction happening. Sure, the courts do take into account the circumstances, and they likely would at the moment the firearm was used, but the time it was carried illegaly up to the point it was needed to, say, stop a violent crime, would have to be accounted for. Retrieving a gun from your vehicle to stop a cime is one thing. Having it on your person illegally is a whole other animal. Just how I see it.

edited to add: That raises a question I have. Let's say I'm jay-walking while openly carrying and get halted by an LEO for jay-walking. Can he demand my LTC? I know during a traffic stop if the officer sees or smells evidence of additional violations (beer on your breath, MJ smoke, etc) he can investigate that. But just having a pistol on my hip is not "evidence of criminal activity," it's just an observation. Would that "search and seizure" hold up in court, or not since we have the assumption of innocence?


Apples and oranges. It is not inherently illegal to drive a car, so you canít be stopped just to check your license. It is still inherently illegal to openly carry a handgun, so the open carrying alone is evidence of a violation. The only way to determine it isnít a violation is to make sure the person has a license and therefore subject to the exception in the law. Because the law still says you canít open carry unless you meet the exception, there is a legal presumption that you are breaking the law until the license is confirmed.
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#6461511 - 09/21/16 05:53 AM Re: Court dismisses case regarding Open Carry and Need for a LTC [Re: Grizz]
RedRanger Offline
Veteran Tracker

Registered: 09/07/04
Posts: 3190
Loc: Frisco, TX / Davao Philippines
Originally Posted By: Grizz
Originally Posted By: RedRanger
Originally Posted By: Grizz
I'd be willing to bet there were other factors involved that they didn't want to mess with that led them to dismiss the case. When the legislature passed the open carry law they left the part of the law that say it's illegal but added an exception if you have a license. Because of that, it is still inherently illegal to open carry a handgun so the only way for you to show you are not violating the law is to show your license. Since open carry was granted by exception the only thing an officer needs to check your license is to see you open carrying.


Fair Enough

Why will the police not check guys standing on the corner looking for work that I see in almost all cities in North Texas?

Every time I have asked a LEO I have been told they don't enforce Federal Laws only state laws.

USCIS clearly states if you are Permanent Residence (GreenCard Holder) you must have it in your possession at all times, that is what give you legal right to be in USA and work in USA if you are an immigrant.

USCIS is division of Department of Homeland Security

https://my.uscis.gov/helpcenter/article/what-should-i-do-with-my-permanent-resident-card


Local law enforcement can't enforce federal law and the Supreme Court has ruled that a state can't pass a law criminalizing a person for being in the country illegally (Arizona v.United States). I don't agree with it, but that's what we have to work with.
If we are dealing with an illegal for something else we can call the Border Patrol to see if they want an INS hold put on the person, but that's very hit and miss.


Thank You for the explanation, Now it make sense to me. I always thought it came for the District Attorney for each county and told LEO not to ask about immigration status.

It's amazing to me how much the Federal Government does to protect illegal immigrants in USA.
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#6462341 - 09/21/16 03:13 PM Re: Court dismisses case regarding Open Carry and Need for a LTC [Re: RedRanger]
Slow Drifter Offline


Registered: 04/09/09
Posts: 4256
Loc: Central Texas
I don't think it's apples and oranges. Once a state legalizes an activity it becomes inherently legal, because of the assumption of innocence. The driving a car scenario is the exact scenario ten AG Gregg Abbott cited to have the provision to spot-check for carry licenses rescinded. I still think it's inherently stupid to carry without a license, it wastes everyones time. All that said, I'll have no problem presenting my LTC if ever requested for any reason.
_________________________
"I have no idea what WW-III will be fought with, but WW-IV will be fought with sticks and stones."

A. Einstein


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#6498941 - 10/17/16 09:57 AM Re: Court dismisses case regarding Open Carry and Need for a LTC [Re: Grizz]
fmrmbmlm Offline
Light Foot

Registered: 09/09/16
Posts: 45
Loc: Thrall Texas
It is inherently illegal to drive a car if you don't have a license or insurance.

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#6499139 - 10/17/16 12:18 PM Re: Court dismisses case regarding Open Carry and Need for a LTC [Re: fmrmbmlm]
Grizz Online   content
THF Trophy Hunter

Registered: 02/28/08
Posts: 5846
Loc: Granbury, TX
Originally Posted By: fmrmbmlm
It is inherently illegal to drive a car if you don't have a license or insurance.


Not the same thing because of the way the laws are written. The law doesn't specifically say it's illegal to drive a car and then list an exception if you have a license, so it's not inherently illegal to drive a car. The law does say it's illegal to open carry a handgun and then lists an exception if you have a valid license. It's all about the fine details in the way the laws are written. On the surface they may look the same, but in a legal sense they are vastly different.
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