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#6456187 - 09/17/16 11:46 AM .308 Match bullet for whitetails?
Big Stan Offline
Bird Dog

Registered: 05/02/14
Posts: 272
I refrain from using Sierra Match bullets for hunting, but due to its accuracy and penetration on non AR steel but I always used hunting bullets and feel comfortable with them. I like your opinions on using Sierra Match bullets for deer and hogs. I always shoot behind the crease of the shoulder for lung shots to prevent meat damage. Here is an article I read about Sierra's for hunting with a .308

http://www.gundigest.com/tactical-gear/tactical-military-arms-blog/match-ammo-for-hunting


Edited by Big Stan (09/17/16 01:14 PM)

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#6456199 - 09/17/16 12:01 PM Re: .308 Match bullet for whitetails? [Re: Big Stan]
RiverRider Online   content
THF Trophy Hunter

Registered: 11/11/07
Posts: 6226
Loc: Wise Co.
The best hunting bullets have been refined over many decades, based on experience. Call me a luddite, backwoods, stuffy, whatever---but I see this idea as being very regressive.
_________________________


Originally Posted By: Cleric
God I am hating caliber threads more and more

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#6456222 - 09/17/16 12:34 PM Re: .308 Match bullet for whitetails? [Re: RiverRider]
JJH Offline
Veteran Tracker

Registered: 10/03/06
Posts: 3434
Loc: Katy
I know many use match bullets for hunting and like them. But a match bullet is designed and built with NO consideratin given to terminal performance.

IMO, good (CONSISTENT!) terminal performance trumps accuracy within reason. IOW, I'd rather have a good hunting bullet, designed for the game and approprite terminal velocity, that shoots 1.5" groups, than a match bullet that shoots 1/2" groups.

It just makes sense to me to use products which were designed and manufactured with the end use parameters considered.

PS I predict that this will be a long thread laugh

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#6456242 - 09/17/16 12:54 PM Re: .308 Match bullet for whitetails? [Re: Big Stan]
Eyesofahunter Offline
Woodsman

Registered: 01/11/15
Posts: 180
Loc: Hill Country of Texas
You can drive a nail with a rock or a hammer. My experience is the SMK is a rock for the type of shot you describe. I have used the SMK and if you hit them in the neck breaking the spine yes dramatic but then again almost any bullet at reasonable speed will ofer same result. My one experience matching your shooting style: 407 yards 308 168 SMK behind shoulder, the result was an ice pick like wound channel through both lungs. He walked off the Sendro into the brush and while waiting a few minutes before going down he walked out again head down and fell over dead. I assume the he was standing in the brush for those few min bleeding into his lungs lacking O2 then made it back to the Sendero. For behind the shoulder shot it is not my first choice regardless of distance.

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#6456254 - 09/17/16 01:19 PM Re: .308 Match bullet for whitetails? [Re: Big Stan]
Korean Redneck Offline


Registered: 06/24/09
Posts: 2277
Loc: Houston
Since he specifically asked about whitetail...at what sort of distance would it take before a head shot with a Sierra match King would NOT take it down instantly?

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#6456259 - 09/17/16 01:26 PM Re: .308 Match bullet for whitetails? [Re: Korean Redneck]
Eyesofahunter Offline
Woodsman

Registered: 01/11/15
Posts: 180
Loc: Hill Country of Texas
OP said he shoots behind shoulder on WT.

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#6456326 - 09/17/16 03:01 PM Re: .308 Match bullet for whitetails? [Re: Big Stan]
Big Daddy K Offline
Veteran Tracker

Registered: 09/01/04
Posts: 2728
Funny I googled this yesterday. Some like SMK but most were against it. The ones against hadn't tried it for the most part.
For me, I'm sticking with hunting bullets. I don't get to shoot deer very often so when I do, I want the best hunting bullet I happen to have.
Game kings are good as are many others so as long as I'm MOD I'm good.
I'm currently loading Hornady interlocks in 308 but I've had succes with Sierra Game King.
_________________________
It ain't easy being me.


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#6456383 - 09/17/16 04:21 PM Re: .308 Match bullet for whitetails? [Re: Big Stan]
jeffbird Offline


Registered: 03/09/09
Posts: 1722
I've shot more than 100 animals with 175 SMK's from a 308 in the last ten years and they remain my first choice, though I have been using Barnes a lot in the last couple of years because they tear up less meat.

I am limiting my comments specifically to the 308 / 175 SMK combo, not others. I could care less what Uncle Fester did with a different combo.

The 175 SMK was designed specifically for terminal performance out of a 308, not a thing to do with target shooting.

Like all bullet and rifle combos, there is an optimum shot placement.

The 175 SMK tends to tumble through and provide deep penetration with significant wound channels from the tumbling usually exiting if the animal is inside of 200 yards.

If you like lung shots, go with a soft rapidly expanding bullet such as an Amax, Ballistic Tip, or Partition.

Lung shots generally do not result in DRT results. The animal is going to run 50 - 100 yards before running out of oxygenated blood. In an open area that is no big deal. In the brush country, that is a nightmare.

SMK's, Barnes, E-tips and other bullets are better for high shoulder, or quartering through between the shoulders, where there is more bone and muscle to provide resistance and thus energy transference.

Optimal shot placement with 308 175 SMK - and most other combos for that matter.









Exit wound of a 308/175 SMK with a high shoulder shot.



Note the large hole through the spine - easy tracking job.



I've posted this many times, but made it to show the 308/175 SMK in action.



308 with the Amax


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#6456387 - 09/17/16 04:27 PM Re: .308 Match bullet for whitetails? [Re: JJH]
jeffbird Offline


Registered: 03/09/09
Posts: 1722
Originally Posted By: JJH
I know many use match bullets for hunting and like them. But a match bullet is designed and built with NO consideratin given to terminal performance.


That is incorrect. The .308 175 Sierra Match King was designed specifically for the US Army sniper application to improve long range terminal performance of the M21 and the USMC's M40A1 over the 168 SMK, which had been in use previously.

The Hague Convention of 1899 prohibits the use of bullets than expand easily or flatten in the body. So both Sierra and Hornady include disclaimers that the Amax and SMK bullets are not recommended for hunting.

They have legal opinions that "match" ammo is legal, whereas, "hunting" ammo would not be.

Hornady used to recommend the Amax for light skinned game, until they received a government contract for them to be loaded for military application.

I'll see if I can dig up an older Hornady manual.

Bergers are another "match" bullet. If they have a flaw is that they are too prone to fragment and create massive damage.

But at the end of the analysis, shot placement is paramount above all other factors. Deer and pigs are not bullet proof. Hit them in the brain, spine, or high shoulders, and they will drop where they stand with any bullet. Shoot them in the lungs, and they are more likely to go wander off a bit.



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#6456398 - 09/17/16 04:43 PM Re: .308 Match bullet for whitetails? [Re: Big Stan]
RiverRider Online   content
THF Trophy Hunter

Registered: 11/11/07
Posts: 6226
Loc: Wise Co.
Directly copied off Sierra's website:

MatchKing Bullets: This is the classification for Sierra's pre-eminent target bullets. The driving motivation for the design of each MatchKing bullet is accuracy. These bullets have very thin jackets drawn to an exacting concentricity standard of 0.0003 in maximum variation, and their weight is held to within ± 0.3 grain. All MatchKing have a hollow point design with a very small meplat for high ballistic coefficient. The majority of these bullets have a boat tail shape to further minimize drag and improve ballistic coefficient. They are manufactured to the very highest quality standards. Their accuracy has been acclaimed worldwide, and they have been used to win more target competitions than all target bullets from other manufacturers combined. While they are recognized around the world for record-setting accuracy, MatchKing® and Tipped MatchKing® bullets are not recommended for most hunting applications.
_________________________


Originally Posted By: Cleric
God I am hating caliber threads more and more

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#6456403 - 09/17/16 04:46 PM Re: .308 Match bullet for whitetails? [Re: Big Stan]
RiverRider Online   content
THF Trophy Hunter

Registered: 11/11/07
Posts: 6226
Loc: Wise Co.
So now I expect to be told that I cannot quote Sierra's website because you have preemptively said so.
_________________________


Originally Posted By: Cleric
God I am hating caliber threads more and more

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#6456407 - 09/17/16 04:51 PM Re: .308 Match bullet for whitetails? [Re: RiverRider]
jeffbird Offline


Registered: 03/09/09
Posts: 1722
Originally Posted By: RiverRider
So now I expect to be told that I cannot quote Sierra's website because you have preemptively said so.


Did you read what I wrote?

I'll pull out the hard copy of a Sierra Manual when I am home later which includes some interesting info not on the current version of the website, Hornady's too.

When the government is involved, things are not always what they seem.


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#6456416 - 09/17/16 05:08 PM Re: .308 Match bullet for whitetails? [Re: Big Stan]
cabosandinh Offline
Pro Tracker

Registered: 08/12/13
Posts: 1157
Loc: Dallas, TX
I've shot 2 bucks with 168 smk .308

One at 100 the other 68 yds

Shot through lungs
Exit wound size of baseball
Lots of blood
Explosive internal damage , massive blood pool
Lots of little fragments internally

Both ran about 20 yds

I would use it if I don't have Partition available

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#6456421 - 09/17/16 05:14 PM Re: .308 Match bullet for whitetails? [Re: Big Stan]
Sirrah243 Offline
Pro Tracker

Registered: 11/05/09
Posts: 1832
Loc: Llano County TX
I know it can be done and successfully done but I wouldn't do it myself.
_________________________
“A hunt based only on the trophies taken falls far short of what the ultimate goal should be.” -Fred Bear

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#6456429 - 09/17/16 05:21 PM Re: .308 Match bullet for whitetails? [Re: Big Stan]
jeffbird Offline


Registered: 03/09/09
Posts: 1722
Sierra Match King next to a Sierra Game King. hmmm.............





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