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Self-training a pointer #6441672 09/07/16 01:11 PM
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duckbill Offline OP
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I have a 14 week old Drahthaar and I would really like to train him myself. Curious if anyone on the forum has trained their own pointers and, if so, can recommend some books or DVDs that would help me get started.

I trained my black lab to duck hunt, but I know this pointer thing is an entirely different ball game so I really want to educate myself. There is a trainer up the road from me that I might utilize if I feel like I'm screwing up too bad.


Originally Posted By: LandPirate
Yeah, don't listen to me. I'm just an idiot.

Originally Posted By: East
Lol. Duckbill that was funny!

Originally Posted By: thecoach
The dude up top has already taken lots of bone before this deer, both mule and whitetail.
Re: Self-training a pointer [Re: duckbill] #6441759 09/07/16 01:55 PM
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Originally Posted By: bill oxner
I've had a few PMs asking about my training method. I did this on another forum, so I still have the pictures in my album, so here goes;

All bird dogs point. The breaking process teaches them to hold point. There are two ways to teach a dog to hold point, with dozens of variations. The first way is to let the birds train the pups. That generally involves launchers and pigeons, with some whoa breaking mixed in. It's very effective. I use the Delmar Smith method, substituting the e-collar for the bump under the chin. My dogs are completely whoa broke before I put them on birds. I use pen raised quail, because I can be done with them for the summer. I like to start in August, and finish in time for hunting season.

I start off on the whoa post. I introduce the e-collar the same day, that I introduce the whoa post. Here's cracker on her first day with the whoa post;



I keep them on the whoa post only until I can get out in front of them, and then go to the yard for heel and whoa. Cracker tended to sit, so I had to start with the suitcase hitch. I go from the yard to longer walks. The pup has pretty well gotten it down after three weeks.



I then go from the walks to whoa in the field. Here's Cracker in the field in the field, before I put her on birds. This whole process has taken me around four weeks.



This is her first day on birds. I train alone, so I had to plant the bird, where I could wrap the CC around a bush. Notice the slack CC.



I kept her on the CC for three training days. She only went around on the bird one time. Here she is after 9 training flushes.




I started walking some of the birds out after a few days. Here you go;




A little side note. My birds were not recalling all that well, so I used Cookie to point them while I netted them;



A lot depends on the pup, and you have to adjust for each pup. Cracker has never taken out a single pointed bird or covey.


Quail hunting is like walking into, and out of a beautiful painting all day long. Gene Hill


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Re: Self-training a pointer [Re: duckbill] #6441774 09/07/16 02:04 PM
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Go talk to the trainer up the road from you.
See what books/videos he recommends, and if he is willing to do weekly one on one training with you once a week for pay. That way you are both on the same page, and you can work the pup during the week on what you've both learned.



Shopping with your husband is like hunting with the game warden.
Experience is what you get, when you didn't get what you wanted.


Re: Self-training a pointer [Re: duckbill] #6441804 09/07/16 02:20 PM
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"Point- Training The All Seasons Bird Dog," by James Spencer is a good book to read.

Though it has many critics, "Wolters Gun Dog" has probably been used to train more dogs than any other.

It also wouldn't hurt to make friends with the trainer up the road. If you don't know an experienced bird dog man to help you out when you run into problems.

Re: Self-training a pointer [Re: duckbill] #6441830 09/07/16 02:37 PM
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Another lab to drathaar convert. Your breeder should be your first point of contact for questions, tips, and pointers, pun intended.


Originally Posted By: Fooshman
I'll take a Black Female every time.

Re: Self-training a pointer [Re: duckbill] #6442385 09/07/16 08:09 PM
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You have to have birds and a place to train. As little as 5 acres will do.


Quail hunting is like walking into, and out of a beautiful painting all day long. Gene Hill


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Re: Self-training a pointer [Re: duckbill] #6442894 09/08/16 01:11 AM
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I finished a couple of pointers from the processes in this older book :

https://www.amazon.com/Mastering-German-...erman+shorthair


Regards,

Jay
Photographer Afield
www.jayschwisow.com

Re: Self-training a pointer [Re: duckbill] #6443082 09/08/16 02:56 AM
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Come see me I have books and videos I will check out to you and will not need to buy another one time use item. I also have homers for rent, electronic launchers for rent, bird bags, QUAIL and I help DIY bird dog people get their dogs going


www.poetryshootingclub.com

Gun Dog Training, Flighty Quail

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Group Events/Parties

700 Yard Range

CLOSE TO DALLAS

Take a youth shooting

214-728-2755

By appointment always and you shoot in private.



Re: Self-training a pointer [Re: bill oxner] #6443296 09/08/16 12:21 PM
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Originally Posted By: bill oxner
You have to have birds and a place to train. As little as 5 acres will do.


Got that covered.


Originally Posted By: LandPirate
Yeah, don't listen to me. I'm just an idiot.

Originally Posted By: East
Lol. Duckbill that was funny!

Originally Posted By: thecoach
The dude up top has already taken lots of bone before this deer, both mule and whitetail.
Re: Self-training a pointer [Re: duckbill] #6443380 09/08/16 01:44 PM
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Just think about this. A dog is broke within voice range when it's whoa broke to voice. A dog is broke within e-collar range when it's whoa broke to the collar.


Quail hunting is like walking into, and out of a beautiful painting all day long. Gene Hill


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Re: Self-training a pointer [Re: bill oxner] #6446045 09/10/16 05:00 AM
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Bill Tarrant's "the Best Way to Train Your Bird Dog" (Delmar Smith's method) is the common-sense book that I could finally understand. I read that book, I attended a Rick Smith seminar, which really illustrated what the book had talked about, and I never looked back.

Re: Self-training a pointer [Re: duckbill] #6446106 09/10/16 12:07 PM
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Go to www.vdd-gna.org, join. They have training days in your area and tests. Great group of folks they will help you with the dog.


There is time, and you must take it, to lay your hand on your dog's head as you walk past him lying on the floor or on his settle, time to talk with him, to remember with him, time to please him, time you can't buy back once he's gone" GBE
Re: Self-training a pointer [Re: Pointer] #6459294 09/19/16 11:34 PM
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Originally Posted By: Pointer
Bill Tarrant's "the Best Way to Train Your Bird Dog" (Delmar Smith's method) is the common-sense book that I could finally understand. I read that book, I attended a Rick Smith seminar, which really illustrated what the book had talked about, and I never looked back.


This book is great and written in progressive steps easy to understand and it flat works if followed

Re: Self-training a pointer [Re: duckbill] #6459328 09/19/16 11:53 PM
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Delmar smith had a funny way of saying things. He said you should take your pup off of birds and never put it back until it was completely broke.

My program is the smith method with the collar substituted for the bump under the chin.


Quail hunting is like walking into, and out of a beautiful painting all day long. Gene Hill


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Re: Self-training a pointer [Re: duckbill] #6459692 09/20/16 03:01 AM
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Originally Posted By: duckbill
I have a 14 week old Drahthaar and I would really like to train him myself. Curious if anyone on the forum has trained their own pointers and, if so, can recommend some books or DVDs that would help me get started.

I trained my black lab to duck hunt, but I know this pointer thing is an entirely different ball game so I really want to educate myself. There is a trainer up the road from me that I might utilize if I feel like I'm screwing up too bad.


I have a 9mo old drathaar. I've been a lab guy my whole life. I've self trained 3, and have found the pointing business to be very different, but has same roots. Going from labs to a versatile breed has been a challenge because it's like learning a new language. I would say I can speak lab enough to train a successful hunting partner. One thing I have seen with drathaars is their intelligence is amazing to the point of a hindrance. I joined NAVHDA and the green book has been helpful. Also have been conversing with the breed warden for the area. Best advice I can give as a new draht owner and self training is patience and don't get overwhelmed with every aspect of what they were designed to do. I'm in the middle of FF at the moment. she caught on quick but where a lab would start making huge strides on retrieving she isn't. And it's very frustrating, but she's just a more complicated puzzle. I had several posts where other members chimed in and gave me some great advice.


“Two things that define an individual what you do when you have everything, and what you do when you have nothing."


Re: Self-training a pointer [Re: bill oxner] #6460562 09/20/16 07:25 PM
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Originally Posted By: bill oxner
Delmar smith had a funny way of saying things. He said you should take your pup off of birds and never put it back until it was completely broke.

My program is the smith method with the collar substituted for the bump under the chin.


Yep, I did the same and came out with some good dogs. Below is Ruger who passed a few years ago. But not forgotten.

Re: Self-training a pointer [Re: duckbill] #6477060 10/02/16 05:10 PM
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I like Rick Smith's method. He has a good set of videos, price but worth it.

Re: Self-training a pointer [Re: duckbill] #6482153 10/05/16 06:02 PM
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I have used the Wolters book and the Best Way to Train Your Dog by Delmar Smith.

Slightly different approaches, I took what I felt was best from each book to use in training my dogs.

It is remarkably satisfying to say the least.
Best of luck, let us know how it's going here on the Forum.


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"Give me an Army of West Point graduates and I'll win a battle... Give me a handful of Texas Aggies and I'll win a war." - General Patton


Re: Self-training a pointer [Re: duckbill] #6489212 10/10/16 05:51 PM
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Walters wasn't a dog guy. He just wrote how to books for a living.

Re: Self-training a pointer [Re: duckbill] #6489360 10/10/16 07:40 PM
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Training with Mo book. He uses the Bill West Method. In addition there is a Facebook page called steadywithstyle devoted to the West method

Bill West method focuses on letting wild birds train dogs. Not people hollering Whoa to tell a dog to point

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