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#6424704 - 08/25/16 05:34 PM Need advice
vanguard Offline
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Registered: 01/11/10
Posts: 3230
Been playing with my 22 250 again. Trigger is under 2 lbs barrel is floated gun is not bedded everything is torqued. 5 shot groups always produce a cluster of 3 sometime being 1 hole a 4th shot opens it up to. 3 or.5 and 5th shot always opens up to around 1inch theres no order either but yes most of the time the flyer is 4th or 5th shot but i have seen my flyer be the first shot. I always let barrel cool between shots shooting off a caldwell rock and bag out back. I can tell you its not me gun has no recoil trigger is great and im rock solid. these are all 5 shot groups, have stacks of these they all look the same 3 in 1 hole 4 a lil bigger and 5 way big, ive tried a bunch of combinations and powder and bullets and the groups all look like this.




Edited by vanguard (08/25/16 05:44 PM)
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#6424727 - 08/25/16 05:49 PM Re: Need advice [Re: vanguard]
FiremanJG Offline
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Registered: 12/16/08
Posts: 17893
Loc: Wolfe City, TX
What's the barrel contour? How long is the barrel? What's the twist rate? What make of rifle? What powder are you using, and how did you land on the charge you're using? What bullet are you using?
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#6424735 - 08/25/16 05:55 PM Re: Need advice [Re: vanguard]
FiremanJG Offline
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Registered: 12/16/08
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Loc: Wolfe City, TX
The pic loaded after I read the wording. Have you tried sticking with one bullet, one powder, one seating depth, and only adjusting powder charge? I see several bullets, and all with varying powder charges.
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#6424738 - 08/25/16 05:58 PM Re: Need advice [Re: FiremanJG]
vanguard Offline
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Registered: 01/11/10
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Originally Posted By: FiremanJG
What's the barrel contour? How long is the barrel? What's the twist rate? What make of rifle? What powder are you using, and how did you land on the charge you're using? What bullet are you using?

weatherby vanguard with barrel replaced with a factory sporter stainless 22 250 barrel 1-14 22 inches. headspace is correct. powders are several win 760 varget, cfe 223, all combinations were trial and error i can get any of these powders to shoot from 40 gr to 55 gr and the best groups are always 3 in one hole 4 being a little bigger and 5 make it just under an inch im having great luck with varget at 34 gr and a 55 gr sierra flat base. put 3 in solid hole today of course 5 shots ended up being .9 but that combo seems to always give me 3 out of five in a ragged hole
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#6424747 - 08/25/16 06:02 PM Re: Need advice [Re: FiremanJG]
vanguard Offline
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Registered: 01/11/10
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Originally Posted By: FiremanJG
The pic loaded after I read the wording. Have you tried sticking with one bullet, one powder, one seating depth, and only adjusting powder charge? I see several bullets, and all with varying powder charges.
yes currently bouncing with 55 gr sierra and varget doing .3 increments up and down from 33.2 33.5 33.8 34 34.3 34.5 etc. its liking 34 33.8. but i just wanted to show when i find a load it likes with a certain bullet it always produces 3 in a ragged hole but 5 is alway an inch or under
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#6424752 - 08/25/16 06:07 PM Re: Need advice [Re: vanguard]
FiremanJG Offline
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Registered: 12/16/08
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Loc: Wolfe City, TX
Barrel contour might be too thin to give a good five shot group. It happens.

I've only ever used H-Varget for .22-250. But I picked a bullet, picked a seating depth, and started on a mid range powder charge working toward Max, as well as beyond, always get sub MOA. But the former (shot out) Savage barrel was a Rem Varmint contour. And the (almost shot out) Shilen is also a Rem Varmint contour.
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#6424780 - 08/25/16 06:25 PM Re: Need advice [Re: FiremanJG]
vanguard Offline
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Registered: 01/11/10
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Originally Posted By: FiremanJG
Barrel contour might be too thin to give a good five shot group. It happens.


this is what im thinking, so after so so many attempts should i just accept it for what it is or is there something i could try, bedding ? or just call it a day
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#6424804 - 08/25/16 06:52 PM Re: Need advice [Re: vanguard]
RiverRider Offline
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Registered: 11/11/07
Posts: 6220
Loc: Wise Co.
What does "letting the barrel cool between shots" mean to you?
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Originally Posted By: Cleric
God I am hating caliber threads more and more

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#6424815 - 08/25/16 07:01 PM Re: Need advice [Re: RiverRider]
vanguard Offline
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Registered: 01/11/10
Posts: 3230
Originally Posted By: RiverRider
What does "letting the barrel cool between shots" mean to you?

in the morning barrel will start out at ambient temparture bou 80dg right now, so about 98 to 105 dg is what i let it cool too, in the afternoon sun is hitting the barell where i shoot and no matter what it wont cool more than about 110dg. i have one of those laser temparuture guages but dont use it any more i can tell by touch. im 99 dg so i cant tell when it gets back to around there


Edited by vanguard (08/25/16 07:08 PM)
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#6424837 - 08/25/16 07:21 PM Re: Need advice [Re: vanguard]
RiverRider Offline
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Registered: 11/11/07
Posts: 6220
Loc: Wise Co.
This time of year they stay pretty warm, I know. I'd say this, though, seeing it as a question of the barrel...I'd take the load that shoots best and shoot one shot every fifteen or twenty minutes just to eliminate the question of heat affecting the barrel, once and for all. You're sooooo close, yet so far away if you know what I mean. You could always shoot something else for fifteen or twenty minutes then come back to it. It would take a while, but maybe you'll find the answer to your million dollar question of the moment.
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Originally Posted By: Cleric
God I am hating caliber threads more and more

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#6424879 - 08/25/16 07:46 PM Re: Need advice [Re: RiverRider]
vanguard Offline
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Posts: 3230
Originally Posted By: RiverRider
This time of year they stay pretty warm, I know. I'd say this, though, seeing it as a question of the barrel...I'd take the load that shoots best and shoot one shot every fifteen or twenty minutes just to eliminate the question of heat affecting the barrel, once and for all. You're sooooo close, yet so far away if you know what I mean. You could always shoot something else for fifteen or twenty minutes then come back to it. It would take a while, but maybe you'll find the answer to your million dollar question of the moment.


i know exactly what you mean. this why it erkks me so much, how does a gun consistently put 3 in a ragged hole but a combination of 5 equal an in inch, arrrrrrgggggg.
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#6424955 - 08/25/16 08:28 PM Re: Need advice [Re: vanguard]
FiremanJG Offline
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Registered: 12/16/08
Posts: 17893
Loc: Wolfe City, TX
It's getting hot.

Tomorrow, if you could go to the range. Put the rifle in the front seat with the AC on full tilt. Shoot three, put the rifle back in the front seat with the air still running. Give it 20-30 minutes in the AC, and shoot the last three. Barrel starts out at the same temp 1-3 and 4-5.

But when all is said and done, I think you have a three shot rifle. At least sub-MOA for three. That's why so many of us run pretty thick barrels, so they'll shoot the same for 10+ rounds with no cool-down in between. I'm sure you knew that, though.
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#6425072 - 08/25/16 09:34 PM Re: Need advice [Re: vanguard]
ChadTRG42 Offline
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Registered: 09/16/09
Posts: 9425
Loc: Lewisville, TX
I have shot many rifles that do exactly what you are talking about. 99% of them are factory rifles that are unbedded. When the barrel heats up, it starts to put pressure on the action and stock mating, and can cause it to "walk around" in no general pattern.

Also, a sporter weight barrel is not designed as a target barrel for long range sessions. The metal is too thin. If there is stress in the metal of the barrel once it heats up, it will begin to expand and bend at the same time, changing up the consistency of the rounds. My bet is the barrel heating up.

I have a customers' Christensen Arms rifle in 338 Lapua that we have gone round and round with them that barely holds MOA. First 2 shots decent, 3rd impacts low and opens group up, 4th much lower impact, 5th lower and well out of group. It's a carbon wrapped barrel, and something about the mfg process of this barrel is putting major stress in it when it heats up and causing shots to walk low. I'm going to post a big write up on it soon. It's not even my rifle and I'm not happy about it.
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#6425321 - 08/26/16 06:59 AM Re: Need advice [Re: vanguard]
dee Offline
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Registered: 04/10/10
Posts: 4665
Loc: Red River way
Bedding issues usually cause that.
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#6426394 - 08/26/16 09:19 PM Re: Need advice [Re: dee]
kmon1 Offline
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Registered: 09/27/06
Posts: 20293
Loc: Texas
Originally Posted By: dee
Bedding issues usually cause that.


Have seen several doing that and a bedding job helped them a lot. Enough so that is where I would start/ Plus it is one change that is not hard to do yourself
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