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Introducing young dog to gunfire?? #6410578 08/16/16 02:15 PM
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I would like to know your method for introducing a young dog (mine is English Pointer) to gunfire.
What age, what method, how, when, where, why etc. thanks!!!!!

Last edited by pharmvet; 08/16/16 02:16 PM.
Re: Introducing young dog to gunfire?? [Re: pharmvet] #6410590 08/16/16 02:22 PM
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A lot depends on how the pup reacts to gunfire. The friend with the red setters let his pups out of the truck to run awhile. He shot a 20 in the other direction. Neither reacted. It was easy from there.

I back up if I get a reaction and start at a greater distance.

I simply took Cracker to NSTRA trials and tied her out. She never showed any reaction.


Quail hunting is like walking into, and out of a beautiful painting all day long. Gene Hill


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Re: Introducing young dog to gunfire?? [Re: pharmvet] #6410615 08/16/16 02:36 PM
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I believe that you start way before a gun is ever in the picture. I typically start with a very young pup (10 weeks old or so) by standing across the room while they eat and clapping my hands. Sometimes you'll get a head lift and then they continue to eat and many times try don't even acknowledge it. I then gradually move closer and louder to where I can clap loud right over their head and it doesn't bother them.

With my current pup I used a 209 primer fired from a winger at about 50 yards. It didn't bother her at all and the excitement of the flying duck helped. In the past I've just had a friend throw a bumper and fire a shot from a distance.....50+ yards with 20 gauge but a 22 would probably be better to start.

Gradually move closer and read the dog. If the dog ever looks anxious take a step back.

For many dogs this gradual process might not be necessary but it's way better to be safe than sorry. Trying to "fix" a gun shy dog is much harder than taking the time to make sure they never get gun shy.


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Re: Introducing young dog to gunfire?? [Re: pharmvet] #6410885 08/16/16 05:14 PM
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I use a 22, point it away from the puppy at first,,,,, then just shoot it around the puppy -------- if he is gun shy to that I would get rid of him.

Re: Introducing young dog to gunfire?? [Re: dune2218] #6411169 08/16/16 08:51 PM
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I started Buster, my cocker, with banging pans at feed time when he was real young. Then banged them while he was chasing HIS tennis ball. And yes he has HIS tennis ball and imitations don't work. So we go to the field and I throw the ball and shoot 22 blanks at a distance. No reaction, move closer no reaction. Make him sit until I release him after ball is thrown and shot fired beside him. No reaction. Repeat same process with 12 gauge no reaction. Get frozen dove and throw it, bang, he gets it and brings it back. When he retrieves anything it is at mach chicken .... wide open. Same retrieve all the way thorough process. Then got 3 guns out and had help emptying 3 rounds each for one retrieve.... no reaction. I shoot 3 times over him at sit and stay while son threw bird. released perfect retrieve. He's ready.


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Re: Introducing young dog to gunfire?? [Re: dune2218] #6411613 08/17/16 01:10 AM
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Originally Posted By: dune2218
I use a 22, point it away from the puppy at first,,,,, then just shoot it around the puppy -------- if he is gun shy to that I would get rid of him.


They are home to stay once they come home with me. I've had two that were soft to the gun that eventually made good bird dogs.


Quail hunting is like walking into, and out of a beautiful painting all day long. Gene Hill


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Re: Introducing young dog to gunfire?? [Re: bill oxner] #6411705 08/17/16 02:01 AM
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Originally Posted By: bill oxner
Originally Posted By: dune2218
I use a 22, point it away from the puppy at first,,,,, then just shoot it around the puppy -------- if he is gun shy to that I would get rid of him.


They are home to stay once they come home with me. I've had two that were soft to the gun that eventually made good bird dogs.


I hunted with a man off and on for 30 years that consistently had the best string of dogs that I ever hunted behind. His philosophy was that you had to go through a lot of good dogs to find the great dogs.

I've had a few that didn't make the cut. It gets much harder to cull dogs once you have a wife. I have seen one truly great dog that was nervous around a gun when he was young.i wouldn't give up on a pup just because he was spooky at first.

Re: Introducing young dog to gunfire?? [Re: pharmvet] #6411714 08/17/16 02:10 AM
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I agree with Brady. My dogs are introduced to loud noises, slapping boards together and stuff young when the are preoccupied with food. My Tess will lay on the deck and relax while you sight in your rifle and never flinch.


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Re: Introducing young dog to gunfire?? [Re: pharmvet] #6411956 08/17/16 07:25 AM
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That banging pots and pans idea is old fashioned. Like said dog should be focused on chasing a pigeon while firing a 22 blank. Adjust distance accordingly

Re: Introducing young dog to gunfire?? [Re: blanked] #6412314 08/17/16 03:32 PM
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Originally Posted By: blanked
That banging pots and pans idea is old fashioned. Like said dog should be focused on chasing a pigeon while firing a 22 blank. Adjust distance accordingly

Well where I come from we have a saying. "If it ain't broke, don't fix it." Many owners don't have a back yard where they can loose a hobbled bird and fire a weapon. I live in the suburbs but am fortunate to have a couple of properties I can go to where I can but they are a drive. Around the average home doing it "the old fashioned" way is effective and legal.


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Re: Introducing young dog to gunfire?? [Re: pharmvet] #6412355 08/17/16 03:58 PM
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The process of introducing pups to gunfire that is by and large most successful overall, is using a method where “noise” (hands, pot/pans, paper bags, boards, blanks, guns at a distance, etc., etc.) is introduced while the pups are engaged in something that they enjoy (food, balls, birds, etc., etc.)

It’s a simple process if you ask me and I have never had a gun-shy dog. By starting young at feeding time clapping hands, banging boards, throwing tennis balls and moving up to shooting while letting a dog chase a bird, you should never have a problem except in only the most extreme cases.

Young dogs learn by association. The objective is to associate “noise” with something positive.


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Re: Introducing young dog to gunfire?? [Re: pharmvet] #6413025 08/17/16 10:20 PM
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3 to 6 weeks before fear starts to develop ideally. Hopefully your breeder will start this for you. While a dog is chasing a pigeon is good but I will not use this method anymore. Makes steadiness training a pain.


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I'll take a Black Female every time.

Re: Introducing young dog to gunfire?? [Re: dune2218] #6413449 08/18/16 02:00 AM
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Originally Posted By: dune2218
I use a 22, point it away from the puppy at first,,,,, then just shoot it around the puppy -------- if he is gun shy to that I would get rid of him.

That is a dumb comment. Pups are not born gun shy, they become gun shy because of man, and improper gun conditioning. Its baby steps, slowly introducing pup to gun fire, some do not need baby steps, some do, and some need smaller baby steps...

Re: Introducing young dog to gunfire?? [Re: Guy] #6413652 08/18/16 03:28 AM
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Originally Posted By: Guy
Pups are not born gun shy, they become gun shy because of man, and improper gun conditioning. Its baby steps, slowly introducing pup to gun fire, some do not need baby steps, some do, and some need smaller baby steps...
Spot on!


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Re: Introducing young dog to gunfire?? [Re: pharmvet] #6424634 08/25/16 09:54 PM
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I took baby steps. .22 with a suppressor, .22 without the suppressor, .410, then up to the 12g.

Started while we were just out playing then introduced thrown dead ringneck dove. Seems to have worked. Now she looks for stuff falling when the gun goes off.

Had a little scare last dove season where I took her to a dove shoot and it got hot and heavy for a bit with lots of gun fire with few birds falling. She ran and jumped in the truck. Not sure if she was scared or tuckered out, but if I raise another dog from a pup her first hunt won't be near anybody else and certainly won't be around another dog that is beating her to the retrieves.

Re: Introducing young dog to gunfire?? [Re: pharmvet] #6427944 08/28/16 04:44 PM
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Started with pot/spoon while feeding, old coffee can works fine as well. Then moved to dummy launcher, with 2nd person firing from a fair distance across the dogs line of sight.

Re: Introducing young dog to gunfire?? [Re: pharmvet] #6428109 08/28/16 06:57 PM
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You really want to get them on the bumper and / or bird wings first. Get them to where they are retrieving with a lot of drive so their interest is in the retrieve and the positive reinforcement that brings.

When I introduced my lab to the gun he was probably about 6-7 mos old. I had a friend take a .22, .410 ga, 20 ga, and 12 ga to about 100 yards out. I threw a bumper and had him shoot the guns when the bumper was at its peak. The dog was already on the run (I hadn't trained him on steadiness yet, just go get it) when the gun was fired and he never noticed it since he was in the "retrieving zone". We moved the guns to 50 yds, 25 yds, and then at my side in all calibers and gauges and the dog only looked up once but never stopped his retrieve.

It was a lot of shooting and walking for my friend (lol), but the dog has never flinched around guns. This was learned from a video I bought and followed.


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Re: Introducing young dog to gunfire?? [Re: pharmvet] #6428498 08/29/16 12:03 AM
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It depends on the pup. Muffin just wanted to go with me after my wife die. She flushed and had shotguns going off over her head the first time out.



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Re: Introducing young dog to gunfire?? [Re: pharmvet] #6445157 09/09/16 05:15 PM
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I always just used a cap gun when placing food out for my pups. Usually started around 10-12 weeks of age.
Worked great and never had any issues with any of my dogs being gun shy

Re: Introducing young dog to gunfire?? [Re: pharmvet] #6453292 09/15/16 03:01 PM
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I just bought my first pup last year, so she is the only experience I have with dogs.

Did some of it by the book, some of it just winged it.

She's a pet first and I have no plans of running field trials or anything like that.

I shoot a bird, she goes get it, its as simple as that.


But I was told by a more experienced hunter that he HATES the making loud noises/sounds while they are eating. They then tend to learn to ignore the sounds. He said he would rather have them associate the gunfire with something fun. So he recommended to introduce gunfire while playing fetch with dummies.

So we started about 200 yards away. My son would fire three shots, one away, one perpendicular to us and one shot quartering towards us. Each time I would watch for recoil and throw the dummy as soon as I saw the recoil.

If there is no reaction he moved 50 yards closer to me and we repeated.

We never had a negative reaction. So finally I put her at heel on my left side and I fired a shot directly away from her as my son threw the dummy. Maybe we were lucky but the shots just seemed to get her more excited and she was never bothered by them. We did this with her at 3 months.

Re: Introducing young dog to gunfire?? [Re: pharmvet] #6453444 09/15/16 04:55 PM
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Thanks for this thread - really helpful information

Re: Introducing young dog to gunfire?? [Re: BradyBuck] #6464165 09/22/16 11:29 PM
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Originally Posted By: BradyBuck
I believe that you start way before a gun is ever in the picture. I typically start with a very young pup (10 weeks old or so) by standing across the room while they eat and clapping my hands. Sometimes you'll get a head lift and then they continue to eat and many times try don't even acknowledge it. I then gradually move closer and louder to where I can clap loud right over their head and it doesn't bother them.

With my current pup I used a 209 primer fired from a winger at about 50 yards. It didn't bother her at all and the excitement of the flying duck helped. In the past I've just had a friend throw a bumper and fire a shot from a distance.....50+ yards with 20 gauge but a 22 would probably be better to start.

Gradually move closer and read the dog. If the dog ever looks anxious take a step back.

For many dogs this gradual process might not be necessary but it's way better to be safe than sorry. Trying to "fix" a gun shy dog is much harder than taking the time to make sure they never get gun shy.
THIS, the first gun I use is a starter pistol


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Re: Introducing young dog to gunfire?? [Re: bobcat1] #6464353 09/23/16 01:44 AM
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Originally Posted By: bobcat1
I started Buster, my cocker, with banging pans at feed time when he was real young. Then banged them while he was chasing HIS tennis ball. And yes he has HIS tennis ball and imitations don't work. So we go to the field and I throw the ball and shoot 22 blanks at a distance. No reaction, move closer no reaction. Make him sit until I release him after ball is thrown and shot fired beside him. No reaction. Repeat same process with 12 gauge no reaction. Get frozen dove and throw it, bang, he gets it and brings it back. When he retrieves anything it is at mach chicken .... wide open. Same retrieve all the way thorough process. Then got 3 guns out and had help emptying 3 rounds each for one retrieve.... no reaction. I shoot 3 times over him at sit and stay while son threw bird. released perfect retrieve. He's ready.


THIS


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Re: Introducing young dog to gunfire?? [Re: pharmvet] #6465106 09/23/16 05:39 PM
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After raising training almost a dozen gun dogs in my life I would say with the first ones it depended on what I observed with the pup on how I handled it. Some needed attention to being introduced to gunfire more than others. One was an adult that came to me gun shy that I fixed. Me better understanding how a gun shy dog is created and not born, I prefer to give extra attention to introducing a dog to the gun and everything else for that matter even if I see no problems. Even the seemingly bold and fearless ones can have something happen that will become their kryptonite. Random things I did with my current and most recent dogs as pups......

Carried a gun with me when feeding the young pup and dry firing it next to them while eating. Started this on day one. Sometimes while just playing with them as well. To associate the gun with something fun. The pup soon will get excited when they see the gun just as all adult hunted dogs do. I progressed from dry firing to a toy cap gun to a starter pistol. I also have carried a pellet gun around while feeding and playing with a pup and eventually firing it too.

With my current dog Dash the breeder while feeding Dash and his litter mates she banged pots and pans, but also played CDs with sounds of thunderstorms, vacuum cleaners, fireworks, and who knows what else. To this day my dog gets excited and wants to go outside to run in the rain anytime he hears thunder. Same anytime there is a fireworks show nearby. He will go outside, running and jumping around the back yard berserk all happy during the city fireworks show if we let him. I will be using CDs like those with every young pup I ever raise for now on.

Not a gun, but important with retrievers. With a pup I have ran my boat motor with the flush attachment hooked up and parked between the house and fence. Got the pup chasing me in the yard and ran past the boat where he has to run past the boat to stay with me. Like crossing streams ahead of a pup as a way to introduce water. I used a clicker for marking and shaping behavior during things like this too, but that is a different book.

With my Vizsla Blaze as a pup I saw something in the novelty section of Bass Pro Shops that gave me an Idea. It was a rifle pop gun. The type that usually uses a cork, but it had a plastic cup on a string that pressed into the end of the barrel. Like a spring piston BB gun it made quite a pop when you shot it. I bought it and while on the couch watching tv at home I occasionally put a treat or piece of pop corn into the plastic cup and launched them across the room with the pop gun for Blaze to chase down. As a pup she would sit next to that pop gun for extreme lengths of time begging for someone to shoot it for her. It may sound silly, but this was one of the most effective things I ever saw or did to get a pup excited about guns.

With Dash after I picked him up the first time and just a few weeks old on his first time out into the wilderness with me I used a lever action 22 rifle with Aguila Colibri primer only ammo and shot it into the opposite bank of a small stock tank making a splash in the water or splat in the mud. Dash would run around or swim across the pond to go after the splash. I would walk to him then shoot again to the other side, and so on. He would pounce on the spot I shot over and over like a clown. Have to admit it was as much fun for me as him. I laughed and laughed.

Then of course there was the normal progression introducing birds, to carrying a shotgun on birds, working with a starter pistol, shooting a shotgun from a distance while on a bird, moving closer, moving up from .410 to .12ga. Introducing multiple guns, introducing the gun into retrieving, and so on.

The point I am making is that it is not rocket science. It does not have to be a set training method. You can be creative with what is around you or available to you. If it is fun for the dog, he is going to take to it well. Dogs are easily shaped during their first 6 months. During that first 6 months I want to expose my pup to as many experiences, sounds, other types of animals and people as I possibly can and keep those experiences positive. I try not to go the route of testing for negative reactions I have to back off from as a way to see where I am at. If possible I prefer to be a step ahead so every progression or new experience is either unremarkable or a positive. I probably broke a glass wall with that one just like if I said never give a command twice or never give a command you can't enforce, but that's my goal.

With that last thought, pay attention to what is around your dog as well. Dogs hear at a wider range than us and from owning a blind dog I have noticed dogs hear echoes we also do not hear. What does not seem sensitive to us, can be for your dog. Many non dog people seem to think all hunting dogs are born trained right out of the box and genetically love the sound of guns. Keep your eye on other individuals and handlers around your dog. One person making a mistake at a hunt test and accidentally discharging a starter pistol next to a dogs face will and did make one of my dog's siblings gun shy. Throwing a young dog in with too many shooters too close who care nothing about your dog or no understanding of it, like on a crowded Dove field can create a gun shy dog in just one morning. More than one person on the forum has admitted to doing this too soon with their dog and creating a problem. I don't like the gun range idea to introduce a dog to gunfire. You can't control what others are doing. Someone sighting in a large bore rifle with a brake and surprising your dog even from a little distance can create a gun shy dog. And just sitting your dog near a bunch of guys shooting is not going to be a very fun first gunfire experience for the dog even if there is no specific incident. Another one I have seen mentioned happen on the forum is leaving your pup outside his first July 4th with a nearby fireworks show going on. If not previously conditioned to fireworks this can be way too much too soon and create a gun shy or fireworks shy dog.

And so on.

Re: Introducing young dog to gunfire?? [Re: pharmvet] #6465167 09/23/16 06:21 PM
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The pop gun with treats is a great idea. Most of the really effective training ideas seem to start as a game or fun activity but with ulterior motives. Start it as a game and progressively move to hour goal.


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