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Bucks getting cheaper? #6395013 08/04/16 10:35 PM
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don k Offline OP
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Is it only me or does it seem like the price of individual Bucks are getting less expensive? Is it the concern with CWD, the price, to many pen raised Bucks hitting the market, not enough people willing to pay the price or maybe people just want an ordinary looking WT Buck Deer?

Re: Bucks getting cheaper? [Re: don k] #6395018 08/04/16 10:38 PM
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Hope it plummets....better sell before TPWD shuts em down


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Re: Bucks getting cheaper? [Re: don k] #6395050 08/04/16 10:56 PM
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Don't forget the impact the price of oil has had. I have no research to back my opinion up, but it seems like I hear the same thing is happening with lease prices.

Re: Bucks getting cheaper? [Re: don k] #6395266 08/05/16 01:57 AM
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I think people are getting smarter. They would rather pay to kill a low fence 150-180 than some genetic monster due to criticism from other hunters and friends. Nobody really give a hoot if you go pay 15K to kill a genetic monster bc they discredit it due to the circumstances.

Last edited by SapperTitan; 08/05/16 02:51 AM.
Re: Bucks getting cheaper? [Re: SapperTitan] #6395270 08/05/16 01:58 AM
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Originally Posted By: SapperTitan
I the no people are getting smarter. They would rather pay to kill a low fence 150-180 than some genetic monster due to criticism from other hunters and friends. Nobody really give a hoot if you go pay 15K to kill a genetic monster bc they discredit it due to the circumstances.


Imo a ranch born 180" deer is a ranch born 180" deer

Couldnt care less if it's killed on a 600 acre hf place or a 600 acre low fence ranch

What's the difference is both of them are shot under feeders anyway?


For it is not the quarry that we truly seek, but the adventure.
Re: Bucks getting cheaper? [Re: txtrophy85] #6395341 08/05/16 02:53 AM
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Originally Posted By: txtrophy85
Originally Posted By: SapperTitan
I the no people are getting smarter. They would rather pay to kill a low fence 150-180 than some genetic monster due to criticism from other hunters and friends. Nobody really give a hoot if you go pay 15K to kill a genetic monster bc they discredit it due to the circumstances.


Imo a ranch born 180" deer is a ranch born 180" deer

Couldnt care less if it's killed on a 600 acre hf place or a 600 acre low fence ranch

What's the difference is both of them are shot under feeders anyway?
my point is the first question people ask now when someone kills a giant is (was it HF?) I think people are just getting to the point they don't want the stigma attached to it. Personally I don't care what people do I'm for the hunter being happy HF, LF, feeders, plots idk.

Re: Bucks getting cheaper? [Re: txtrophy85] #6395407 08/05/16 04:23 AM
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Originally Posted By: txtrophy85
Originally Posted By: SapperTitan
I the no people are getting smarter. They would rather pay to kill a low fence 150-180 than some genetic monster due to criticism from other hunters and friends. Nobody really give a hoot if you go pay 15K to kill a genetic monster bc they discredit it due to the circumstances.


Imo a ranch born 180" deer is a ranch born 180" deer

Couldnt care less if it's killed on a 600 acre hf place or a 600 acre low fence ranch

What's the difference is both of them are shot under feeders anyway?


I agree if both are grown naturally. But generally a high fence hunting operation is going to be feeding a very specific expensive diet to their deer to grow them as big as possible. Where as the guy on the other place is likely just putting out some corn as an attractant.


The very atmosphere of firearms anywhere and everywhere restrains evil interference. -George Washington
Re: Bucks getting cheaper? [Re: don k] #6395499 08/05/16 11:43 AM
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Supply and demand will alway be the deciding factor. I have noticed Don that prices for individual bucks have declined.


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Re: Bucks getting cheaper? [Re: Big_Ag] #6395656 08/05/16 02:15 PM
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Originally Posted By: Big_Ag
Don't forget the impact the price of oil has had. I have no research to back my opinion up, but it seems like I hear the same thing is happening with lease prices.


supply and demmand...Lots of folks where rolling around with spare change there for a while not so much right now. The whole deer market is obscure anyhow. It's a chicken and egg type of deal kinda like the oil business.


-Those who say money can't buy happiness never bought a dog.

Re: Bucks getting cheaper? [Re: don k] #6395661 08/05/16 02:18 PM
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I could see it being everything mentioned above.


It's hell eatin em live
Re: Bucks getting cheaper? [Re: TFF Caribou] #6395663 08/05/16 02:20 PM
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Originally Posted By: Tff caribou
Originally Posted By: txtrophy85
Originally Posted By: SapperTitan
I the no people are getting smarter. They would rather pay to kill a low fence 150-180 than some genetic monster due to criticism from other hunters and friends. Nobody really give a hoot if you go pay 15K to kill a genetic monster bc they discredit it due to the circumstances.


Imo a ranch born 180" deer is a ranch born 180" deer

Couldnt care less if it's killed on a 600 acre hf place or a 600 acre low fence ranch

What's the difference is both of them are shot under feeders anyway?



I agree if both are grown naturally. But generally a high fence hunting operation is going to be feeding a very specific expensive diet to their deer to grow them as big as possible. Where as the guy on the other place is likely just putting out some corn as an attractant.



Those low fence ranches thst consistently produce Boone and Crockett class deer feed plenty of protein, trust me


For it is not the quarry that we truly seek, but the adventure.
Re: Bucks getting cheaper? [Re: don k] #6395672 08/05/16 02:25 PM
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I have nothing against HF ranches, their owners, or hunting on them, but a big buck off a LF place is not the same as one off a HF place TO ME and I believe others as well. Its taken us 9 years to get into the 150 B&C range on our 320 acre LF place. If it was HF there is no doubt in my mind we would have been there in 1/2 that time or less.


It's hell eatin em live
Re: Bucks getting cheaper? [Re: redchevy] #6395962 08/05/16 07:14 PM
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Originally Posted By: redchevy
I have nothing against HF ranches, their owners, or hunting on them, but a big buck off a LF place is not the same as one off a HF place TO ME and I believe others as well. Its taken us 9 years to get into the 150 B&C range on our 320 acre LF place. If it was HF there is no doubt in my mind we would have been there in 1/2 that time or less.


Maybe, maybe not. A lot has to depend on the genetics.

A high fence doesent automatically guarantee big deer.


The biggest thing a high fence controls is your neighbors shooting deer and somewhat controls your predator influx.

I know guys with decent sized hf places that are not managed well and they can't break 150" easily. I know places that have poor native genetics that have issues with it as well.

I know guys that hunt no pressure low fence places with non-hunting neighbors that break 150" every year. I sold 475 acres down in big wells that bordered a 6k acre place that was lightly hunted, guy shot a 165" on it last year and passed numerous 140's and 150's and the two years prior he owned it. Low fence country

There is a lot of country that is not hunted, it's not unheard of to have big, low fence neighbors that don't hunt


For it is not the quarry that we truly seek, but the adventure.
Re: Bucks getting cheaper? [Re: don k] #6396132 08/05/16 09:59 PM
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Prices definitely coming WAY down on those that haven't been doing the testing. Does well under $1000 now and bucks definitely down.

I think we will really start to see a premium on quality low fence deer and some severe pressure on the genetically manipulated.

Re: Bucks getting cheaper? [Re: don k] #6396143 08/05/16 10:07 PM
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Price is dictated by whatever the market will bear. Everyone in this thread makes good points.

Re: Bucks getting cheaper? [Re: don k] #6396185 08/05/16 11:14 PM
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I really don't know how many years people have been offering pen raised Deer. Everything has its cycle. Do you think the market may have dried up for this type of Deer? If that is the case it would seem logical that it would affect the entire market. I also think that the down turn in oil production has probably helped. I know many years ago when I was in the hunting business when oil went south so did our business especially out of off shore La. which at that time was really hot.

Re: Bucks getting cheaper? [Re: don k] #6396413 08/06/16 02:32 AM
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There are still high fences getting built as we speak and the testing, while a pain, is still a minor inconvenience for hunting operations. Testing only applies for scientific release sites anyway. If you high fence your native herd your not subject to testing. What hurts the most is the restrictions placed on TTT captures.


What has softened the market the most is people are not wanting pen raised deer with 300" of non typical antlers on its head. The market got saturated and there was enough backlash over those types of deer they are not selling like they used too, the trend has reverted back to clean, typical type deer.


For it is not the quarry that we truly seek, but the adventure.
Re: Bucks getting cheaper? [Re: don k] #6396419 08/06/16 02:37 AM
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Yes Don the price of deer is down...big time. I know a couple guys in the biz and they're selling deer for half the money they were as little as 2-3yrs ago. Several intangibles involved but overall it's the oil bust that can be blamed. Money dries up and toys go by the wayside very quickly

Re: Bucks getting cheaper? [Re: txtrophy85] #6399064 08/08/16 07:02 PM
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Originally Posted By: txtrophy85
There are still high fences getting built as we speak and the testing, while a pain, is still a minor inconvenience for hunting operations. Testing only applies for scientific release sites anyway. If you high fence your native herd your not subject to testing. What hurts the most is the restrictions placed on TTT captures.


What has softened the market the most is people are not wanting pen raised deer with 300" of non typical antlers on its head. The market got saturated and there was enough backlash over those types of deer they are not selling like they used too, the trend has reverted back to clean, typical type deer.



I agree with most of what you said, except the over-saturation of freak deer causing the decline in prices.

Anyone who purchases deer from a non-TC1 qualified breeder will immediately assume that breeder's status and fall under the same testing/surveillance requirements as that breeder. Whether that be a five acre release site or a five thousand acre release site. When you say a "scientific" release site, I'm not sure what you are referring to.

The other thing hurting values is deer that are liberated to a release site must remain within the confines of that release site. No more TTT from those sites, period. So let's say a guy has a 1,000 acre ranch and wants to stock it with 100 deer from a TC3 breeder. He's now a TC3 release site and must submit 50% of all hunter harvested deer plus all deer "found dead" for a period of time to attain TC2 status and, eventually, TC1.

So prices from TC3 breeders who are movement qualified will be lowest, TC2 next and TC1 highest.

The downturn in the US oil business is also playing a HUGE part in the price declines. Go look at all the nice, new vacant motels in Cotulla and all throughout the Eagle Ford. 200,000 jobs lost and $84 billion in capex slashed from budgets has an enormous impact on entertainment expenses.

I also agree that we've come to the point many folks would rather kill a pasture born deer over a pen-raised freak with holes or tatoos in his ears. Low-fence being the most sought after, but lots of big, beautiful native born deer behind fences in this state and I don't see those prices coming down.

Gene Riser was going to start attempting to breed strictly big typicals before he passed away.


Re: Bucks getting cheaper? [Re: don k] #6399070 08/08/16 07:12 PM
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just thinking out-loud via keyboard with some other discussions in the past few weeks...

IF there is a downward trend in the trophy HF WT biz, could that be also driving up the price of the trophy LF WT biz along with the upward trend in lease prices?

example, instead of paying big $$$ for a 200+ (or whatever number) HF WT, applying similar $$$ towards a LF trophy caliber lease or semi-guided/guided LF trophy hunt

just something that popped into my head while reading thru the above and thinking back to several other recent threads ... confused2 popcorn


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Re: Bucks getting cheaper? [Re: redchevy] #6399083 08/08/16 07:21 PM
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Originally Posted By: redchevy
I have nothing against HF ranches, their owners, or hunting on them, but a big buck off a LF place is not the same as one off a HF place TO ME and I believe others as well. Its taken us 9 years to get into the 150 B&C range on our 320 acre LF place. If it was HF there is no doubt in my mind we would have been there in 1/2 that time or less.


you couldn't be more wrong, 9 years is the bare minimum to see any significant changes made in heard health and range conditions......... there is simply not enough time for improved development to dominate across the board short of 10 years......

if all it took was protein feeding everyone would have 150" monsters running around, I've been dumping 18 tons a year over 7K acrea and have yet to kill a 150"er, Half our place is HF the other half LF. In the past 5 years we moved the average score of ALL bucks harvested from 115"to 121" and from 135 dressed to 160 dressed[b][/b][i][/i]

Re: Bucks getting cheaper? [Re: SingleShot85] #6399104 08/08/16 07:36 PM
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Originally Posted By: SingleShot85
Originally Posted By: redchevy
I have nothing against HF ranches, their owners, or hunting on them, but a big buck off a LF place is not the same as one off a HF place TO ME and I believe others as well. Its taken us 9 years to get into the 150 B&C range on our 320 acre LF place. If it was HF there is no doubt in my mind we would have been there in 1/2 that time or less.


you couldn't be more wrong, 9 years is the bare minimum to see any significant changes made in heard health and range conditions......... there is simply not enough time for improved development to dominate across the board short of 10 years......

if all it took was protein feeding everyone would have 150" monsters running around, I've been dumping 18 tons a year over 7K acrea and have yet to kill a 150"er, Half our place is HF the other half LF. In the past 5 years we moved the average score of ALL bucks harvested from 115"to 121" and from 135 dressed to 160 dressed[b][/b][i][/i]


That holds water, selective hunting and genetics are your biggest factors. If the deer doesnt have the genes to reach 150bc then it wont no matter how much protein ya feed. Its like humans, if your meant to be 5'10 your gonna be 5'10 no matter how much ya wanna be 6'6.

I disagree that a HF place cant churn trophy caliber deer quickly. If running the right ratio, feed program, and more importantly access to water and causing no stress during antler and body development CAN produce trophy results in an easy 5-6 years assuming the genes are there or introduction of genes takes place. We did it on our place.

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Re: Bucks getting cheaper? [Re: SingleShot85] #6399124 08/08/16 07:48 PM
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Originally Posted By: SingleShot85
Originally Posted By: redchevy
I have nothing against HF ranches, their owners, or hunting on them, but a big buck off a LF place is not the same as one off a HF place TO ME and I believe others as well. Its taken us 9 years to get into the 150 B&C range on our 320 acre LF place. If it was HF there is no doubt in my mind we would have been there in 1/2 that time or less.


you couldn't be more wrong, 9 years is the bare minimum to see any significant changes made in heard health and range conditions......... there is simply not enough time for improved development to dominate across the board short of 10 years......

if all it took was protein feeding everyone would have 150" monsters running around, I've been dumping 18 tons a year over 7K acrea and have yet to kill a 150"er, Half our place is HF the other half LF. In the past 5 years we moved the average score of ALL bucks harvested from 115"to 121" and from 135 dressed to 160 dressed[b][/b][i][/i]


I don't see how your post makes me wrong at all. I never said you could dump protein and 150 inch deer would sprout forth from the ground. I said in my opinion it was easier to grow them on a HF place than a LF place. A lot of that has to do with neighbors hunting pressure and size of your property. Our place is small enough that what our neighbors do greatly affects us. Also we started out with a shot out property and that is what we built from, we didn't shoot a deer till the third year. Many many a young deer that I would dearly love to see again that either got shot somewhere else or didn't come back.


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Re: Bucks getting cheaper? [Re: don k] #6399141 08/08/16 07:58 PM
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your biggest factor for improvement and decline is time.......... you stated, you believed you could do it 1/2 the time w/ a HF, i'm telling you its not possible....... it has very little to do w a fence..

Re: Bucks getting cheaper? [Re: PMK] #6399142 08/08/16 07:59 PM
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Originally Posted By: PMK
just thinking out-loud via keyboard with some other discussions in the past few weeks...

IF there is a downward trend in the trophy HF WT biz, could that be also driving up the price of the trophy LF WT biz along with the upward trend in lease prices?

example, instead of paying big $$$ for a 200+ (or whatever number) HF WT, applying similar $$$ towards a LF trophy caliber lease or semi-guided/guided LF trophy hunt

just something that popped into my head while reading thru the above and thinking back to several other recent threads ... confused2 popcorn


Bingo.

The attack on the breeding industry was perpetrated by the members of the parks and wildlife board. They are large low fence ranch owners. And they stand to make a tidy profit from the destruction of the breeding industry.

Everybody has seen the drop in prices of the huge non typicals. And that has more to do with personal preference and cost than the oil business drop IMO. But the prices of the 170-200" deer has remained pretty steady.

My deer prices haven't dropped. And neither have my lease prices. But I've never been in the super large buck game.

Last edited by therancher; 08/08/16 09:18 PM.

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