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No more IR... Armasiight or Pulsar? #6390003 08/01/16 04:44 AM
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CharlieCTx Offline OP
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Sat night was the most frustrating hunt I've ever had. That would be thanks to my X-Sight and I'm going to throw IR hunting out with it. I missed a shot on one hog as it simply would not power up on int. battery or ext. battery. Screw around taking the cap on/off it finally did, but too late. Missed a shot on another due to being too close ( I thought I had cows by me, turned out to be a sounder about 20ft away) and the illuminators I believe scaring them off. Actually got a shot off on a coyote, but the scope decided to power off after the shot. This was all in about 2 hours time. frown

I have (2) Illuminators and a IR laser, plus my 12v IR lights (which also decided not to work Sat night for some reason) I drag around. I've also commented on the recent topic of the IR Illuminators lighting up the smoke from a shot, making a quick followup difficult. All of this is just too hard it seems vs simply turning on a thermal scope and shooting. I have a Thermal and NV monoculars, so I'm covered on scouting.

So given what I can spend... Pulsar XD50A 2-8 or Armasight Zeus 3X, 336X256, 60Hz, 42m

Thanks,
Charlie

Re: No more IR... Armasiight or Pulsar? [Re: CharlieCTx] #6390013 08/01/16 05:41 AM
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The love hate relationship we have with hunting in general....sounds like it got the best of you that night. Sorry about that. I hate it when I am in position and the equipment fails.

The good news is it happens to all of us, and the hogs will be back.
The bad news is I have nothing to say about either of the scopes you suggested. I hunt with an ATN Thor 336 3x.

Re: No more IR... Armasiight or Pulsar? [Re: CharlieCTx] #6390516 08/01/16 06:40 PM
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I like the Pulsar. Here are some pics taken in the backyard.

Re: No more IR... Armasiight or Pulsar? [Re: Jethrowins] #6390606 08/01/16 07:50 PM
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I can't say anything about the Pulsar because I have no personal experience with it, but I did try out several Armasight models before making a purchase.
You can save a little money by going with a 30hz instead of the 60hz. The 60hz didn't impress me at all and didn't do anything special that the 30hz wouldn't do.

I bought a Zeus 640 3x 75 30hz and love it. Put it on an AR15 in 6.5 Grendel.
Pig smackin' good.

Re: No more IR... Armasiight or Pulsar? [Re: CharlieCTx] #6390757 08/01/16 10:03 PM
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Hunting with NV sure is frustrating at times, but that's why I've always had quick detach thermal optics ready, or another dialed in rig as a backup.
I think it's good to hunt with NV once and awhile, as it really makes you appreciate your thermal optics.
At some point, your thermal optic will fail you too, as they're not infallible.
Most times in a heavy fog, or when it's below zero and your scope fogs up from just the heat of your face.
That's a problem I've had when hunting in NY state and more than one song dog has escaped death because of it.
Either thermal you mentioned is a good choice.
I would pick the scope with the easiest controls and quickest power up.
My spotting thermal is always on and I power up the scope when prey is spotted to save battery life.
Try Getting the scope that uses the same batteries as your other optics.
When I started with thermals, it was a lot easier to choose, as there wasn't a lot of choices.
Now, the market is flooded with great optics and at great prices too.

Re: No more IR... Armasiight or Pulsar? [Re: CharlieCTx] #6394918 08/04/16 09:17 PM
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I'd go with the pulsar unit.




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Re: No more IR... Armasiight or Pulsar? [Re: CharlieCTx] #6395010 08/04/16 10:33 PM
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Well, you can get the Pulsar Apex XD50 384 2x or the Armasight Zeus 336 3x for about the same price. While the Pulsar has a bigger lens, it has less magnification than the Armasight. I have not compared the two side by side, but have looked through both at different times and hunted with the Pulsar. As noted above, going with 60 hz isn't going to buy you a whole lot of improvement over 30 hz for the vast majority of your hunting, only on the higher speed action stuff.

Given the magnification difference, the big question is, how far do you normally hunt? Do you normally hunt inside 75 yards? Then I would go with the Pulsar, but it can hunt much farther, no doubt about it. If you are normally hunting more than 100 yards, I think I would go with the Armasight.

Just an FYI, if this is going on a bolt gun, it is easier to mount the Pulsar with proper eye relief on a bolt gun than the Armasight. The longer tube of the Pulsar just works better for this than the shorter/more compact Armasight, IMHO.


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Re: No more IR... Armasiight or Pulsar? [Re: CharlieCTx] #6395307 08/05/16 02:30 AM
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I would ditto DNS...

Re: No more IR... Armasiight or Pulsar? [Re: CharlieCTx] #6395415 08/05/16 04:44 AM
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This will be going on my M&P 10. I'd say the average shot where I hunt is about 120 yds.

Help me with this... Zeus 120 336 and 640. As mentioned there seems to be little difference in the 30-60 refresh rate. Does the above make a big difference? I don't understand this pixel array spec as I think they all also list a 800x600 display? Is the display capability the same, but there's fewer pixels to display with the lower number? I would think that would be very noticeable.

Charlie

Re: No more IR... Armasiight or Pulsar? [Re: CharlieCTx] #6395628 08/05/16 01:59 PM
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The 336, 640 is the resolution of the core. The 800 x 600 is the resolution of the screen. A 640 core vs a 336 core makes a huge difference, particularly the farther out you go. If you can step up to the 640, I would. The only scope I own that isn't 640 is the Pulsar (384).

The 30 hz vs 60 hz is the refresh rate of the screen. 30 hz is generally fine, but will blur a bit when you have faster motion like a sounder running. That's because the target moved further between screen refreshes.

Edit: One more thing to throw into the mix. The controls on the Pulsar seem easier for me. I'm not crazy about the buttons on the Armasight. They are inset and it is a tad difficult to get my big fingers on them. You will find yourself manually NUCing the Armasight as the auto takes way too long to come around. But the bigger thing to consider is the PiP on the Pulsar. I like that the Armasight has 3X native for longer shots, but the Pulsar PiP is a very cool feature and does an excellent job of compensating. Ya know, just trying to confuse things more. LOL...

Last edited by dfwroadkill; 08/05/16 02:09 PM.
Re: No more IR... Armasiight or Pulsar? [Re: CharlieCTx] #6395648 08/05/16 02:10 PM
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You also have differences in cores between the two options your weighing.

I believe the Pulsar is a French made one and Armasight uses Flir - I could be wrong.

Anyhoo - one companies 30hz may behave differently than the next companies 30hz sort of like a Chevy vs Ford V-8 , they're both 8 cylinders but are designed to perform differently ...

Personally I'd go cheapest 30hz I could find because depreciation is a mutha on thermal equipment and your going to want to upgrade in a couple of years anyways....


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Re: No more IR... Armasiight or Pulsar? [Re: CharlieCTx] #6395653 08/05/16 02:11 PM
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Another thought... You can rent a lot of these from Tyler at Ultimate Night Vision in Carrolton. Find what you like best and he applies the rent to the purchase. Something to consider...

Re: No more IR... Armasiight or Pulsar? [Re: Pig_Popper] #6395680 08/05/16 02:28 PM
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Originally Posted By: Pig_Popper
You also have differences in cores between the two options your weighing.

I believe the Pulsar is a French made one and Armasight uses Flir - I could be wrong.

Anyhoo - one companies 30hz may behave differently than the next companies 30hz sort of like a Chevy vs Ford V-8 , they're both 8 cylinders but are designed to perform differently ...

Personally I'd go cheapest 30hz I could find because depreciation is a mutha on thermal equipment and your going to want to upgrade in a couple of years anyways....


The Pulsar is a 384 made by ULIS of France. The Armasight is a 336 made by FLIR here in the U.S. Negligible performance difference.

I haven't noticed a difference in the affect of 30hz processors from manufacturer to manufacturer. They all blur with faster motion, but it isn't something that is unacceptable or a reason not to purchase.

Depreciation is a fact of life. The difference between 30hz and 60hz isn't so great that it would affect my decision. However, 3XX cores vs 640 cores is a huge difference in purchase price and performance. One just has to decide what works for them per those considerations. I think folks can get by plenty good on 3XX core products, but I enjoy using 640 much more and am willing to pay the difference. To each, his own.

Re: No more IR... Armasiight or Pulsar? [Re: CharlieCTx] #6395745 08/05/16 03:28 PM
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Nice short summary you wrote on core and resolution.

Re: No more IR... Armasiight or Pulsar? [Re: CharlieCTx] #6396026 08/05/16 08:12 PM
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I agree with the 320 vs 640 core debate. I believe you can tell a difference the majority of time. However sometimes the 640 core will be on par with the 320 if they use a cheap display. For instance the Flir scout 3 that uses a 640 core can look on par with a 384.

Re: No more IR... Armasiight or Pulsar? [Re: dfwroadkill] #6396135 08/05/16 10:02 PM
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Originally Posted By: dfwroadkill
... the Pulsar PiP is a very cool feature


I'm glad you reminded me of that, I had completely forgotten about it. I really like that feature.

I've spent money with Tyler renting a Pulsar Handheld and a FLIR scope. The FLIR was pretty disappointing. The rentals were good money spent, but given he only let's you put a single rental towards a purchase, don't want to do it too many times. It did give me a good base to see some differences and is highly recommended to do.

I think I'm redirected back to Pulsar now. I wish MDMORROW would go buy some and change his mind so I could pick one up from him. smile He's got a great deal on a 75mm Prometheus on the classified, wish it was a sight.

Charlie

Re: No more IR... Armasiight or Pulsar? [Re: CharlieCTx] #6396169 08/05/16 10:51 PM
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Just trying to make sure we don't miss something for you to consider. up

Re: No more IR... Armasiight or Pulsar? [Re: CharlieCTx] #6396750 08/06/16 04:07 PM
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I really like a lot of things about both. I've owned both but kept the armasight stuff for a couple reasons. The armasight software seems like it forces the background to wash out when something hot shows up. I like this feature. The pulsar seems to show the terrain better but in some instances hot objects can blend in. For example, on several of my places I have open cultivated fields that with woods in the back. Pigs and coyotes will come out of those woods. If they're staying in the tree line I find that I can identify a living creature better with the armasight than the pulsar in that situation because sometimes I'll mistake a fallen tree or a big rock or something like its a hog. Also, I like the housing better on the armasight as well as the size in regards to the rifle scope. I don't care for the housing or the long goofy shape of the pulsar. I also like the on and off switch better on the armasight but I like the control wheel for the menu better on the pulsar. Can't go wrong on either unit. I've been liquidating thermals lately cause I'm planning to eventually buy three or four IR defense units once I've got the funds in hand. They're leaps and bounds ahead of everything but for double or triple the price. I have a 75mm zeus I'd part with but its not for sale right now publicly. Shot a coyote with it yesterday. I also have an 19mm ATN Thor 336, same core and almost the same housing as the zeus.


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Re: No more IR... Armasiight or Pulsar? [Re: CharlieCTx] #6396793 08/06/16 04:51 PM
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The optics and software make a lot of difference too I've found. My MTM has an amazing picture but is only a 320 core. But its a mil spec unit so there's a lot that goes into that. A big glass (75 or 100mm) thermal in a 336 core will a lot of times outperform a 640 in a small lens as distance increases. Display makes a huge difference. The huge OLED in the armasights is killer. I can tell a good bit of a difference in the HD38A and 38S pulsars as well. I've owned both in the monocular and the 38A riflescope.


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Re: No more IR... Armasiight or Pulsar? [Re: CharlieCTx] #6397079 08/06/16 10:42 PM
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Everyone likes something different. What one might choose, another may not desire. MDMORROW and I see a lot of things the same and a few different. We certainly agree on the style and size of the housing, preferring the Armasight. I certainly agree with him on the IR Defense (IRD) and have bought four....but I have "not" experienced that they are double or triple the price. After using the turrets or joysticks on my IRD gear, the Armasight feels old school and operates with buttons similar to the ATN (I have a 640, 5X). One place we have a different opinion is firmware. I am not sold on Armasights preference to "enhance" the "target. and "de-emphasize" the surroundings. I own a Zeus 3X, 640, 60hz. Two things observed. One, the software sometimes chooses something other than the target that is hotter that it wants to "enhance". No likey. Second, I desire everything to have detail, both target and surroundings. By not emphasizing both you can miss obstacles. Example, DNS and I were out hunting one night. He had his Armasight, I had my IRD. We were working a lone boar. Long stalk. Once we got close, he was ready to shoot. However, he couldn't see what I could. 3/4" - 1" stalks between us and the boar...enough to deflect a round. We eventually took the hog, but when we started over to him DNS was surprised about the stalks. Reviewing the video later, the difference between scopes was illustrated. So, yeah, the IRD is where it's at if you want to go to the upper end of commercial gear. I don't think you'll note that same difference between the Pulsar (I own an XD 50A) and Armasight however.

Re: No more IR... Armasiight or Pulsar? [Re: CharlieCTx] #6397340 08/07/16 03:54 AM
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Of course then again on the hunt, I could see a individual hogs quite clearly in a tight group that dfwroadkill was unable to distinguish individuals out of, the heat signatures blending together too much for the IRH, making shot placement difficult.

Here is the video. Notice how much clearer you can see the cocklebur plants with the IRH, but how much more clearer you can see the hogs bunched together with the Armasight starting around 1:58 in the video. Then notice later another set of grouped hogs where the IRD does better with the hogs seen behind the cockleburs that distort more of the image on the Armasight, starting around 4:06 in the video.



So it is important that the potential buyer get a look at the scopes before buying or learn to work with the shortcomings offered by each product. A lot comes down to personal preference.


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Re: No more IR... Armasiight or Pulsar? [Re: CharlieCTx] #6397383 08/07/16 05:48 AM
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After a lot of research, shooting with a couple, and looking through several others, I settled on the Pulsar XD50A a couple of months ago and I love it. The combination of the simple controls and the PIP aiming were the items that helped me choose it.

I did a lot of shopping once I decided on the XD50A, and USA Optics did me a solid deal. I picked it up from them at the Mesquite gun show, including tax, for less than I could have order it from any of the on-line folks.


I can say I have been surprised at the performance in the recent hot weather... I had just assumed that thermal would be pretty restricted during the hot weather. With 100 degree days, by 10:00 at night (when its still 90 or upper 80s) there is plenty of differentiation to pick out pigs at 150 - 200 yards. I do find that I have to nuc it often as the temperature is dropping.


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Re: No more IR... Armasiight or Pulsar? [Re: Double Naught Spy] #6397610 08/07/16 02:48 PM
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Originally Posted By: Double Naught Spy
So it is important that the potential buyer get a look at the scopes before buying or learn to work with the shortcomings offered by each product. A lot comes down to personal preference.


Every scope has something you wish were different. The above statement is so true.

Re: No more IR... Armasiight or Pulsar? [Re: CharlieCTx] #6397628 08/07/16 03:03 PM
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Totally agree. There's no perfect system and some systems are better for certain hunting situations as well.


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Re: No more IR... Armasiight or Pulsar? [Re: CharlieCTx] #6397629 08/07/16 03:03 PM
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Also very much depends on a persons budget as to what might be best for them. The cheapest thermal is better than no thermal at all.

Last edited by MDMORROW; 08/07/16 03:04 PM.

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