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#6376604 - 07/20/16 08:07 PM H20 case fill question on Quickload
Big Stan Offline
Bird Dog

Registered: 05/02/14
Posts: 272
I am stumped with a reading on QL for my 7mm Mag. I used the Berger 140 grain VLD under 66.7 grains RL19 for a chronograph reading of 3250 fps this morning. I have a 25.5 inch barrel.

The QL program default reading for H20 is 82 grains, so I changed it to 88 after the average of weighing 5 cases. I weighed each unsized fired empty brass ( 5) for a final weight of 219.5 grains and 5 fired unsized cases of H20 and ave weight is 307.8 and final weight after calculations is 88.4 grains of H20, so i entered that in the tab in place of the program's reading which was 82 grains. Now I added the charge weight, and other data.

Now my velocity is way lower by 220 fps slower than my chrono reading and 100 fps slower than the program's 82 H20 reading. I tried the same weighing method with my 6.5 Creed and 6.5 x 284 and reading is just off by .4 to .6 grain of H20 which is normal. Why is the 7 Mag reading off by 6 grains? Could someone help me with this issue? Please check the link, Thanks
http://imgur.com/a/fMbWx


Edited by Big Stan (07/20/16 08:07 PM)

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#6376614 - 07/20/16 08:21 PM Re: H20 case fill question on Quickload [Re: Big Stan]
ChadTRG42 Offline
THF Trophy Hunter

Registered: 09/16/09
Posts: 9433
Loc: Lewisville, TX
You're using a fired case, which has expanded to your chamber. If you size the brass down, it will reduce internal capacity and reduce the water weight. Also, don't use average weights on the brass. Use exact water weight amounts, and they should all be similar. QL velocity data gets you in the ball park. I use the velocity data as a guide. I have seen it off in some caliber and bullet combo's when I have chronograph readings to know my exact fps.
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#6376619 - 07/20/16 08:27 PM Re: H20 case fill question on Quickload [Re: Big Stan]
kmon1 Online   content
junior

Registered: 09/27/06
Posts: 20297
Loc: Texas
Spot on as usual Chad up

QL predicts extremely well in some cases, not so much in others. The way to verify is with a chronograph, if you don't have one shoot at distance, measure the drop and then use a ballistic calculator to find the velocity.
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#6376622 - 07/20/16 08:30 PM Re: H20 case fill question on Quickload [Re: Big Stan]
RiverRider Online   content
THF Trophy Hunter

Registered: 11/11/07
Posts: 6226
Loc: Wise Co.
Water capacity is supposed to be measured in an unsized, fireformed case.

The way I check water capacity is to select 10 random cases and find the average case weight, and then find a single case that is as close to the average weight as possible and then find the water capacity of that particular case. Works fine.
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Originally Posted By: Cleric
God I am hating caliber threads more and more

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#6376635 - 07/20/16 08:39 PM Re: H20 case fill question on Quickload [Re: Big Stan]
Big Stan Offline
Bird Dog

Registered: 05/02/14
Posts: 272
I thought the H20 capacity is using a fired case with the spent primer in it.

I did the same with the 6.5 Creedmore and the 6.5 x 284, and difference is just .4 to .6 of a grain compared to 6 grains with the 7 Mag.
It's way off.

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#6376657 - 07/20/16 08:58 PM Re: H20 case fill question on Quickload [Re: Big Stan]
RiverRider Online   content
THF Trophy Hunter

Registered: 11/11/07
Posts: 6226
Loc: Wise Co.
Originally Posted By: Big Stan
I thought the H20 capacity is using a fired case with the spent primer in it.

I did the same with the 6.5 Creedmore and the 6.5 x 284, and difference is just .4 to .6 of a grain compared to 6 grains with the 7 Mag.
It's way off.


That IS correct, but I could only guess as to the cause of the discrepancy you're seeing. Could be the actual burn rate of the powder lot you're using, the temperature at which you're working, or something about your rifle. Or it could be that QL doesn't predict certain combinations with the 7 Mag so well.
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Originally Posted By: Cleric
God I am hating caliber threads more and more

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#6376665 - 07/20/16 09:00 PM Re: H20 case fill question on Quickload [Re: Big Stan]
kmon1 Online   content
junior

Registered: 09/27/06
Posts: 20297
Loc: Texas
RR thanks for the correction, been a while since I read that part of the users guide. Page 64 in the users guide with the version I have.
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#6376685 - 07/20/16 09:13 PM Re: H20 case fill question on Quickload [Re: Big Stan]
kmon1 Online   content
junior

Registered: 09/27/06
Posts: 20297
Loc: Texas
Originally Posted By: Big Stan
I thought the H20 capacity is using a fired case with the spent primer in it.

I did the same with the 6.5 Creedmore and the 6.5 x 284, and difference is just .4 to .6 of a grain compared to 6 grains with the 7 Mag.
It's way off.


Various cases will have differing capacities and same manufacture lot to lot will often have differing case capacities. Reloading data manuals have what manufacture case was used in the loads. Most I recall being different that I have loaded were for 45-70 with Remington and Winchester cases, this was before I had QL but one brand case would hold IIRC 6 grains more powder than the other. Was loading some light plinking lead bullet loads and the difference in powder when charging the cases was very noticeable. Didn't have many of one so trashed them.
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#6376771 - 07/20/16 10:05 PM Re: H20 case fill question on Quickload [Re: Big Stan]
Big Stan Offline
Bird Dog

Registered: 05/02/14
Posts: 272
Is there a list of Burning rate factor Ba for Quickload? I would like to set up the propellant table.


Edited by Big Stan (07/20/16 10:06 PM)

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#6376923 - 07/21/16 05:50 AM Re: H20 case fill question on Quickload [Re: Big Stan]
RiverRider Online   content
THF Trophy Hunter

Registered: 11/11/07
Posts: 6226
Loc: Wise Co.
If you are good at working with files, you can make a copy of the file that holds all the powder data and rename it something like "my powders" and then edit the burn rate factor and save it. You will then be able to have the program run using your edited powder file.
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Originally Posted By: Cleric
God I am hating caliber threads more and more

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#6377087 - 07/21/16 08:38 AM Re: H20 case fill question on Quickload [Re: RiverRider]
FiremanJG Offline
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Registered: 12/16/08
Posts: 17893
Loc: Wolfe City, TX
It's gettin Nerdy around here. peep
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#6377157 - 07/21/16 09:24 AM Re: H20 case fill question on Quickload [Re: Big Stan]
ChadTRG42 Offline
THF Trophy Hunter

Registered: 09/16/09
Posts: 9433
Loc: Lewisville, TX
Interesting. I've always used a sized case. If I'm loading for multiple rifles, or for a large line of my 308 Win ammo, I use the sized cases to keep the external dimensions the same, therefore giving me the difference in internal volume for each case. There is a base line for minimum SAAMI chamber specs. But with different chambers cut between min and max, it can vary. Chambers can be cut to max or run a tight match chamber. If you run a sized case, this will keep it a known dimension. All of my water weights have been with a sized case. I've found it does work very well.
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#6377531 - 07/21/16 01:35 PM Re: H20 case fill question on Quickload [Re: ChadTRG42]
Big Stan Offline
Bird Dog

Registered: 05/02/14
Posts: 272
Originally Posted By: ChadTRG42
Interesting. I've always used a sized case. If I'm loading for multiple rifles, or for a large line of my 308 Win ammo, I use the sized cases to keep the external dimensions the same, therefore giving me the difference in internal volume for each case. There is a base line for minimum SAAMI chamber specs. But with different chambers cut between min and max, it can vary. Chambers can be cut to max or run a tight match chamber. If you run a sized case, this will keep it a known dimension. All of my water weights have been with a sized case. I've found it does work very well.


Chad, did you full size the case or neck size? I assume its full size in order to bring it to the same external dimensions.

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#6377540 - 07/21/16 01:39 PM Re: H20 case fill question on Quickload [Re: RiverRider]
Big Stan Offline
Bird Dog

Registered: 05/02/14
Posts: 272
Originally Posted By: RiverRider
If you are good at working with files, you canake a copy of the file that holds all the powder data and rename it something like "my powders" and then edit the burn rate factor and save it. You will then be able to have the program run using your edited powder file.


I am just a tad confused on the editing the burn rate factor. When I change the powder, let's say from RL22 to H4350, the Ba rate factor changes. I thought the number for the burn rate factor is a "label" number for the powder selected. If I edit the burn rate factor, then it won't be H4350 anymore, but some other unknown powder? Could you please explain on edit to what? Thanks

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#6377747 - 07/21/16 04:01 PM Re: H20 case fill question on Quickload [Re: Big Stan]
RiverRider Online   content
THF Trophy Hunter

Registered: 11/11/07
Posts: 6226
Loc: Wise Co.
There is a single file that contains all the power data. This is what a small portion of that file looks like:

Code:
"Accurate Solo 1000                 ","4250","1.2210","1.590","4.8000","1.8970","0.119","1.1795","0.510","","","","","","","","","","","","15JAN04"
"Accurate Nitro 100                 ","4890","1.2080","1.510","4.8333","1.2000","0.108","1.1253","0.480","","","","","","","","","","","AANI100.jpg","15JAN04"
"Accurate Solo 1250                 ","4070","1.2270","1.400","3.5714","0.1487","0.379","1.3042","0.550","","","","","","","","","","","","15JAN04"
"Accurate No.2                      ","4530","1.2110","1.130","3.4524","-0.4000","0.112","1.0371","0.610","","","","","","","","","","","AA_#02.jpg","15JAN04"
"Accurate No.5                      ","4500","1.2160","1.590","2.5041","0.0438","0.156","1.0922","0.950","","","","","","","","","","","AANo5.jpg","15JAN04"
"Accurate No.7                      ","4160","1.2300","1.570","1.4180","1.8616","0.286","1.4655","0.985","","","","","","","","","","","AANo7.jpg","22MAR06"
"Accurate No.9                      ","4060","1.2270","1.570","1.3429","1.0833","0.283","1.3492","0.976","","","","","","","","","","","AANo9.jpg","15JAN04"


For Accurate No.5, as an example, the burn rate is 2.5041 which is the fourth value for that powder.

The path to the file is C:/Users/public/public documents/Quickload/data/powders. In the "powders" folder is a file named "qloadfw.pro" which will open like a text file. In this case, if I determine that my particular lot of Accurate No.5's burn rate is actually closer to 2.4900, then I can edit the burn rate factor to that value and save the file with this change. QL would then call up the edited value whenever I select Accurate No.5. It is best to make a copy of the original qloadfw.pro as it is installed, and name it something like "mypowders.pro" or even "editedpowders.pro," and save it in the same folder, then you'll be able to run QL off your new file OR the original file.

If this looks extremely complicated or it doesn't make sense to you, then you probably should not fool with it. Just operate the software the way the manual says to do it.
_________________________


Originally Posted By: Cleric
God I am hating caliber threads more and more

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