That's good.

Here's my point: Hunting is a very broad, all encompassing endeavor that requires many skills - woodsmanship, knowledge of the game sought, proper gear, tracking/spoor-reading (both pre and post shot), use of terrain, weather effects (micro like wind currents and macro like overall conditions and their effects on game movement) - just to name a few. And each of those has many sub-headings....

Accurate shooting is a very important part. But no more important than the other parts. Most people with a modicum of effort learning the basics (breath control, trigger control, using a proper rest/shooting position) can master accurate shooting at ranges of 300 yards or less. When hunting, you are carrying your rifle a whole lot more than you are shooting it, and it's just a heavy stick unless one places oneself in the proximity of the game sought in the first place.

But shooting related stuff (calibers, platforms, brands, optics, ad infinitum...) gets an outsized share of the ink, the discussion, the focus. Why? IMO because 1) it's more amenable to endless discussion with words and on paper and 2) the marketing of "stuff" is where the money is, not learning skills that make one a better hunter (those folks selling stuff ain't dumb).

Most of us don't have the time we would like to be hunting and actually gaining experience that our forefathers had to hone the skills in the first paragraph. But we can buy cool "stuff", spend some range time shooting, and spend a lot of keyboard time discussing the ins/outs of .277 vs. .284 vs. .308, of mil dot vs. moa, of 3-9x vs. 6-25x, etc. I'm as guilty as anybody.

But if we developed the skills in the first paragraph, then shooting animals at distances where they couldn't detect us even if we stood up and said "I'm coming and hell's coming with me!" wouldn't be necessary.

But there ain't no app for that....

^^^^ This entirely! Shooting is but one cog of the hunting wheel, as eloquently stated above.

The mantra of "I had to shoot at that distance" is just an excuse to be made for one of many reasons, probably all beginning with a lack of hunting skills and/or laziness. This isn't to say there aren't people perfectly capable of making long range shots, but many that take them are not.

Having said that, I will do what pleases me and teach my kids the same ethics of my hunting techniques, whether they or someone else agree or disagree I can not control, and as I have said before, if it is legal...have at it.

Chital have you ever shot a magnum caliber?

NP, this is the same discussion, different day. I don't dispute the hunting, stalking and animal behavior skills. They are all the steps and learning that needs to happen to get one's self into a position to make a shot. There are some of us that have heard, and have told stories of "I just couldn't hit it that far away, and I couldn't get closer without getting busted". And those of us that want the extra tool in the toolbox to prevent eating a tag sandwich, learn how to make clean hits a little farther than most people are capable.

And again, I will repeat what I've always said, I have never shot a game animal at "long range", only prairie dogs, coyotes, and hogs, but I am prepared to hit a game animal at a slightly extended distance if the need arises. It is nothing more than being prepared. However I think if a hunter wants to go out prepared to do so, he or she needs to learn how, and practice as much as possible. I've told everyone I've had out that I'm not trying to make them long range deer killers. But once you've learned what it takes to hit at 800 yards, 400 doesn't seem like such a challenge. And please go out and kill hogs as far as you can see them, if the shot is safe.

Why does a deer rank higher than a hog?

In some places wild boars rank just as high if not higher than most ungalets

For me a deer is the ultimate game animal. A hog is nothing but a pest to be exterminated.

T.P.& W. does not define them as game animals.

They are not natural to the habitat.

They are invasive.

They are costing Texas farmers and ranchers millions due to their destructive manner. I fell the pain they cause, on my little 70 acre place. They've ruined great hay ground, and caused expensive damages to my tractor and implements.

I hate their guts and livers, they all should die by any means necessary, young and old.

The few deer in my area aren't causing any trouble.

For me a coyote is the ultimate prey. They are absolutely brilliant, and difficult to out smart. But the great thing about this state is we can enjoy our favorite type of hunting as we see fit.

A hog is twice as smart as a deer. There are a lot of things more ultimate than a deer

I've shot a 7 rem mag and a 300 win mag.

This is really informative. TT85, I put all animals on the same ethical level and get told to go to PETA.

I don't have anything to add, because I really don't and y'all are really awesome.

Deer are just as destructive in certain areas in the state.


I've just never understood the blind hatred for hogs. I hate turkeys a lot more than hogs

No doubt deer cause their own problems destroying certain crops. And those farmers have permits to deal with that. In my area the hogs are the problem.

If you had ridden a Deere 4430 through a football field sized area, that you had plowed perfect smooth, and fertilized for grass rehab. Only to get your teeth rattled put of your mouth due to hog rooting like I have, you'd hate hogs just as much as many of us.

Because hogs are vermin, just like 'yotes.

I sell ranches for a living, I've been in hog holes that swallowed the front end of my truck.

Killed a lot of them too both in the field and in traps I just don't get how they rank lower than a deer? I wouldn't do anything to a hog that I wouldn't do to a deer and I'm pretty bad on hogs.

I don't want, or need to write anymore to make you see.

It's off topic anyway.

That's your choice...I never let a hog walk and hardly ever shoot deer. Deer do not have 10-20 babies, twice a year that in turn are ready to continue the cycle in 6 months. I only shoot mature deer, but any and every hog I see...no matter how far out they are, get a bullet......period. I have no sympathy for those bastages and wish I didn't have to worry about them.

Deer are game animals, pigs are varmints.

And a great tractor that one was! I remember getting in brand new ones with the fully equipped cabs, cranking up the air and the stereo, and driving them up the main drag in Fabens to put fuel in them. They were nicer rides than my car was back in those days.

Yeah, I know, but the thread's all over the place already anyway.

Why don't we just go ahead and call them "sub-varmints?" That's what they are!

Still using it.

I had thought about going a little newer, drop in HP, and gain front assist. But I just like the simplicity, and reliability of the classic.

Mine is older than me though.

Someone may get offended.

What about axis deer, black buck antelope and nilgai?

Sounds like you need a 4020D!

Hogs are a cross between a dozer with rippers, and a cockroach. Those animals you listed are not.

The truth is that people have their own prejudices for and against certain animals. There is no logic behind it, though they will attempt to justify it by various means that have no meaning. I wouldn't say that there is anything wrong with that, in itself. However, when stones are thrown at the other end of the spectrum, hypocrisy is revealed, though rarely noticed.