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Re: Rant: Newbies & Long Distance [Re: Choctaw] #6370196 07/15/16 03:53 PM
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Originally Posted By: Choctaw
Originally Posted By: Mr. T.
I have hunted all my life and never had to take a shot over 150 yards. Yes I left a few animals to walk away. I try to stalk until I am close enough for a good clean kill. I've shot antelope in Wyoming and mountain goat in British Columbia, got within 40 yards, plus mule and whitetail. However my wife takes shots at 200 -300 yards routinely. She has taken 24 shots and has 24 kills. So, each to his own. The hunting world is big enough for all of us without us attacking each other.......PETA will do that without our help.


But is makes these threads sooooooooooooooooooooooooooo boring if we aren't slamming each other. grin



Oh, I forgot, my bad...I'll sit back and just watch the soap opera unfold. popcorn


Cabin rental in Pagosa Springs, Co.
Sleeps 10, If interested please PM me.
Re: Rant: Newbies & Long Distance [Re: chital_shikari] #6370246 07/15/16 04:38 PM
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Do as you please, shoot whatever you want at any distance, it is a free country. I wouldn't have posted what you did in my opinion because their are to many namby-pambies that have to input their less than 2 cents in.

Rock on.

Re: Rant: Newbies & Long Distance [Re: chital_shikari] #6370273 07/15/16 05:09 PM
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Man, I feel sorry for the crow I shot at 245 yards last day of season. I happened to use a lowly 300 blk out with a 115 grain Berger at a slow 2300 fps with a Rem 700 and 10x scope. 1.4 mils up and a .2 wind hold = dead crow. It doesn't freakin' matter if I'm shooting a 308, 300 WM, 223, or 300 blk out. If I have practiced with my set up, know my rifle and know my ammo, I'll be on target at most any distance. So would anyone if they know their gear.

What is "long range"? Being in the shooting business, what is long range is different for many people. Some think after 100 yards is long range. Others is 300 yards. My definition, like the NRA's definition is, is anything 600 yards and out is considered long range. So anything less than 600 is considered "short range". I'd agree with that.

You have to look at shooting and/or precision shooting, in general, beyond 100 yards. I use 100 yards as a zero point, where your scope and turrets are zero'd to your point of aim at 100 yards. Past that, is where the fun starts. I test my ammunition test loads at 200 and 300 yards. I'll "play" at stupid distances when going to the range because I can. I've taken that 300 blk out to 600 yards just "playing" around. Would I shoot at a deer that far, no. But if a deer steps out at 300, chances are I'll drill is a$$. If you don't shoot past 100 yards, then 300 is a long range shot. If you shoot and "play" at distances that would be crazy far, the shorter shots are easy.

So, what is long range to you may be totally different than someone else. If you are competent and know your gear well, who am I to tell you you can not take a shot on something. If you have no clue where your bullet is after 200 yards, and take a 300-400 yard shot, then yes, that's probably less ethical. But if I'm drilling crows at a lasered 245 yards with some wind shooting a 300 blk out, I'm fine shooting at a deer, pig or yote.


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Re: Rant: Newbies & Long Distance [Re: chital_shikari] #6370293 07/15/16 05:45 PM
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Used to shoot IMSHA Pistol Silhouette. Used a Thompson Center Contender, 10" Bull Barrel, 357 Magnum, Open Sights. It was nothing to clean the Rams at 200M using a 180 grain Spire Point bullet. Did the same with a S&W Model 29 10" Silhouette Revolver, 240 grain FMJ's.

Memorable Kills.

1) Remngton 700 BDL, 7mm Magnum, Bushnell Banner 4x12 - deer at 330 yards = dead

2) Remngton 700 BDL, 7mm Magnum, Bushnell Banner 4x12 - deer at 550 yards = dead

3) Remngton 700 BDL, 7mm Magnum, Bushnell Banner 4x12 - deer at 580 yards = dead (same day/time as (2).

4) Remngton 700 BDL, 300 Ultra Mag, Redfield 3x9x50 - deer at 600 yards = dead

5) Remngton 700 BDL, 300 Ultra Mag, Redfield 3x9x50 - deer at 630 yards = dead

6) Remngton 700 BDL, 300 Ultra Mag, Redfield 3x9x50 - deer at 650 yards = dead

(4,5,6 were all shot by my son in a span of about 30 minutes off of a plateau over looking a valley)

7) Remngton 700 BDL, 300 Ultra Mag, Redfield 3x9x50 - Mouflan Ram 825 yards = dead


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Re: Rant: Newbies & Long Distance [Re: chital_shikari] #6370333 07/15/16 06:38 PM
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Nobody "has" to take a shot. The excuse that I wasn't going home empty or had worked too hard to not shoot something is not very ethical, in my opinion. I made a friend of mine mad because he had entered an illegal whitetail buck in a big buck contest. He had entered three bucks (this was long before AR's and being able to shoot more than one AR buck as long as it was in a different county). I pointed out the guy running the contest that the third buck he entered was killed illegally since he had never even been to a three buck county. When he found out what I did he confronted me about it. When I told him my reasoning he said that he had gotten on a new lease in north Texas and had already killed two bucks here in east Texas but since he had paid the money to be on that other lease he felt justified in killing it. I just told him he should have just killed one in east Texas and been legal. Bottom line, justifying bad behavior is a slippery slope.

Re: Rant: Newbies & Long Distance [Re: chital_shikari] #6370436 07/15/16 08:26 PM
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Pretty sure that someone is going to [censored] on this too, but I will go ahead and try to clear things up a bit.

I see SapperTitan's point that I'm just trying to gain attention or get my post count up or whatever. I see how y'all may see this post that way.
But that wasn't what I was trying to do. No sir.
I put that up there so that y'all could point out some fallacies in my points made--y'all didn't see the point I was trying to make, only the fact that I missed a pig twice and the numbers "22-250." All I'm trying to do is to not have people who are just barely getting into hunting and shooting think that shooting past 300yd is the same as to shooting under 150yd. I put my failures in there to back up that point: when you don't practice, you miss. When you use a small caliber with a non-head/neck shot at a distance further than 200yd, then you're in for some prayer and stress. I've learned a lot from here and am trying to pass on very good information from here to people who are more novice than me. I'm still young, but I have been hunting for 9 years--is that worth nothing? I've made my share of mistakes, mistakes that I've realized because THF has showed me that these are mistakes.
The whole point of my big long anecdotal "rant" was to basically say this (to the brand-new hunters who I am addressing, not Texas Hunting Forum because y'all ain't brand new): hit a target at X distance before you attempt to hit an animal, because there are more factors at those ranges and beyond than under them, which I have learned the hard way. (X>200yd)

And I must ask: what is wrong with promoting clean kills, regardless of distance, animal, caliber, or scope magnification? I don't see a pet peeve to derive from "ethical hunting," however you want to define it. I'm not telling YOU what to do, I'm telling people who don't know what they're doing what NOT to do so that they don't screw up like I have.

Re: Rant: Newbies & Long Distance [Re: chital_shikari] #6370497 07/15/16 09:22 PM
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so, lot's of post's with kill shots, how about missed shots


hold on Newt, we got a runaway
Re: Rant: Newbies & Long Distance [Re: chital_shikari] #6370555 07/15/16 10:10 PM
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Originally Posted By: chital_shikari
Pretty sure that someone is going to [censored] on this too, but I will go ahead and try to clear things up a bit.

I see SapperTitan's point that I'm just trying to gain attention or get my post count up or whatever. I see how y'all may see this post that way.
But that wasn't what I was trying to
do. No sir.
I put that up there so that y'all could point out some fallacies in my points made--y'all didn't see the point I was trying to make, only the fact that I missed a pig twice and the numbers "22-250." All I'm trying to do is to not have people who are just barely getting into hunting and shooting think that shooting past 300yd is the same as to shooting under 150yd. I put my failures in there to back up that point: when you don't practice, you miss. When you use a small caliber with a non-head/neck shot at a distance further than 200yd, then you're in for some prayer and stress. I've learned a lot from here and am trying to pass on very good information from here to people who are more novice than me. I'm still young, but I have been hunting for 9 years--is that worth nothing? I've made my share of mistakes, mistakes that I've realized because THF has showed me that these are mistakes.
The whole point of my big long anecdotal "rant" was to basically say this (to the brand-new hunters who I am addressing, not Texas Hunting Forum because y'all ain't brand new): hit a target at X distance before you attempt to hit an animal, because there are more factors at those ranges and beyond than under them, which I have learned the hard way. (X>200yd)

And I must ask: what is wrong with promoting clean kills, regardless of distance, animal, caliber, or scope magnification? I don't see a pet peeve to derive from "ethical hunting," however you want to define it. I'm not telling YOU what to do, I'm telling people who don't know what they're doing what NOT to do so that they don't screw up like I have.


Young man, you are experienceing what all of us old farts experianced many years ago: growing up.

I belive your intensions were good and sincere.

Here is the thing. You are trying to pass along knowalage (admirable) to your peers, but you seek wisdome from these men and women you admire.

You are now learning the differance between the two right now, here in this post.

Wisdom comes with time, and maturity.

I belive some of the answers here were harsh, but that is what you asked for (relise it or not), and you have been given a great gift.

Please reread all the post and look at the wisdom that has been shaired with you.

I think you expected to hear praise for a job well done, but got something much more valuable .

Keep on swinging, you are not far from where you want to be.

You will make these guys proud I promice.

Last edited by rdhibbs; 07/15/16 10:16 PM.

Thank You
Robert

To announce that there must be no criticism of the president, right or wrong - is not only unpatriotic and servile, but is morally treasonable to the American public.

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Re: Rant: Newbies & Long Distance [Re: chital_shikari] #6370572 07/15/16 10:36 PM
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You just cannot have a different opinion? Chital your post is not out in left field.

Re: Rant: Newbies & Long Distance [Re: Wilhunt] #6370613 07/15/16 11:13 PM
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Originally Posted By: wilhunt
You just cannot have a different opinion? Chital your post is not out in left field.


It absoutly is not, if I infered it was I appoligise. I think he did a bang up job trying to teach what he has learned. To do that well takes practous and time. Not every harsh statement here was helpfull, but several offered him guidence.

I am proud he ts trying to pass along knolage, and even more so that he respectfully defended his position in a Mature maner. My intention was one of encouragement.


Thank You
Robert

To announce that there must be no criticism of the president, right or wrong - is not only unpatriotic and servile, but is morally treasonable to the American public.

Theodore Roosevelt
Re: Rant: Newbies & Long Distance [Re: rdhibbs] #6370621 07/15/16 11:18 PM
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Originally Posted By: rdhibbs
Originally Posted By: wilhunt
You just cannot have a different opinion? Chital your post is not out in left field.


It absoutly is not, if I infered it was I appoligise. I think he did a bang up job trying to teach what he has learned. To do that well takes practous and time. Not every harsh statement here was helpfull, but several offered him guidence.

I am proud he ts trying to pass along knolage, and even more so that he respectfully defended his position in a Mature maner. My intention was one of encouragement.


Yes sir.

Re: Rant: Newbies & Long Distance [Re: rdhibbs] #6370628 07/15/16 11:26 PM
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Originally Posted By: rdhibbs
Originally Posted By: chital_shikari
Pretty sure that someone is going to [censored] on this too, but I will go ahead and try to clear things up a bit.

I see SapperTitan's point that I'm just trying to gain attention or get my post count up or whatever. I see how y'all may see this post that way.
But that wasn't what I was trying to
do. No sir.
I put that up there so that y'all could point out some fallacies in my points made--y'all didn't see the point I was trying to make, only the fact that I missed a pig twice and the numbers "22-250." All I'm trying to do is to not have people who are just barely getting into hunting and shooting think that shooting past 300yd is the same as to shooting under 150yd. I put my failures in there to back up that point: when you don't practice, you miss. When you use a small caliber with a non-head/neck shot at a distance further than 200yd, then you're in for some prayer and stress. I've learned a lot from here and am trying to pass on very good information from here to people who are more novice than me. I'm still young, but I have been hunting for 9 years--is that worth nothing? I've made my share of mistakes, mistakes that I've realized because THF has showed me that these are mistakes.
The whole point of my big long anecdotal "rant" was to basically say this (to the brand-new hunters who I am addressing, not Texas Hunting Forum because y'all ain't brand new): hit a target at X distance before you attempt to hit an animal, because there are more factors at those ranges and beyond than under them, which I have learned the hard way. (X>200yd)

And I must ask: what is wrong with promoting clean kills, regardless of distance, animal, caliber, or scope magnification? I don't see a pet peeve to derive from "ethical hunting," however you want to define it. I'm not telling YOU what to do, I'm telling people who don't know what they're doing what NOT to do so that they don't screw up like I have.


Young man, you are experienceing what all of us old farts experianced many years ago: growing up.

I belive your intensions were good and sincere.

Here is the thing. You are trying to pass along knowalage (admirable) to your peers, but you seek wisdome from these men and women you admire.

You are now learning the differance between the two right now, here in this post.

Wisdom comes with time, and maturity.

I belive some of the answers here were harsh, but that is what you asked for (relise it or not), and you have been given a great gift.

Please reread all the post and look at the wisdom that has been shaired with you.

I think you expected to hear praise for a job well done, but got something much more valuable .

Keep on swinging, you are not far from where you want to be.

You will make these guys proud I promice.



Spot on. I wasn't at 16, what I would become. Keep right on rolling along and learning Chital.


Talent is a gift, character is a decision.
Re: Rant: Newbies & Long Distance [Re: chital_shikari] #6370793 07/16/16 03:00 AM
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I see your location says "in a HF".. That says it all......


Dogdown

The only thing that'll stop a bad man with a gun, is a good man with a gun.
Re: Rant: Newbies & Long Distance [Re: chital_shikari] #6370832 07/16/16 03:45 AM
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Thanks for the info!

Re: Rant: Newbies & Long Distance [Re: chital_shikari] #6370963 07/16/16 01:15 PM
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I believe Bryan Litz gives the best description of long range.
It's dependent on the caliber and bullet combination along with shooters capabilities and experience.
30 cal bullet in a 308 long range is about 1000 yards
30 cal bullet in a win mag or 338 long range is significantly farther.

He goes on to explain extended long range is when bullet enters transonic zone.
For a .22 that may be at 25-50 yards. Shooting a .22 beyond 100 yards can be considered extended long range.

I agree with his definition.
Food for the fodder.

Re: Rant: Newbies & Long Distance [Re: chital_shikari] #6371363 07/16/16 07:53 PM
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He in training to become our next Chest Thumping Elitist roflmao


Re: Rant: Newbies & Long Distance [Re: chital_shikari] #6371445 07/16/16 09:47 PM
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So the OP is telling folks to only take sportsman-like shots on deer, but he's using a 22-250 at 200 yards or more. I have no problem with the distance at all, but I have a problem with the caliber he chose to make the shots. I have a 220 Swift and did hunt pigs and deer with it for a short time, but realized quickly that it really isn't the proper medicine for deer and pigs. In my view, a good hunter CAN use a 22-250, but a good hunter won't.

I've been hunting deer for 56 years. I'm qualified to make that statement.

As to shooting deer at distance, I'll shoot at 300 if I have the time and the deer is not moving much, and maybe a bit further under good conditions, but I don't really need the meat or another big rack. A hog or coyote, however, is in danger out to 500 or so. Past that I'd shoot if I thought I could hit them. To me, an ethical shot on a coyote is when you hit meat or bone. About the same for pigs.

And I agree with rdhibbs.

Last edited by 603Country; 07/16/16 09:54 PM.

Not my monkeys, not my circus...
Re: Rant: Newbies & Long Distance [Re: chital_shikari] #6374034 07/19/16 02:44 AM
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Not gonna bash you chital but you have to realize you can't preach ethical shots and post you had to take the shot. everyone is comfortable at different distances and with different calibers. You need to think about what you said and my advice is if the shot is not ethical on the first hour of the hunt then it's not on the last hour.

Re: Rant: Newbies & Long Distance [Re: webb1974] #6374081 07/19/16 03:28 AM
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Originally Posted By: webb1974
Not gonna bash you chital but you have to realize you can't preach ethical shots and post you had to take the shot. everyone is comfortable at different distances and with different calibers. You need to think about what you said and my advice is if the shot is not ethical on the first hour of the hunt then it's not on the last hour.
Very true. I'm working towards that level of ethics, but for now I'm pretty trigger happy frown

Re: Rant: Newbies & Long Distance [Re: chital_shikari] #6374469 07/19/16 02:45 PM
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Originally Posted By: chital_shikari
Originally Posted By: webb1974
Not gonna bash you chital but you have to realize you can't preach ethical shots and post you had to take the shot. everyone is comfortable at different distances and with different calibers. You need to think about what you said and my advice is if the shot is not ethical on the first hour of the hunt then it's not on the last hour.
Very true. I'm working towards that level of ethics, but for now I'm pretty trigger happy frown


Big props for honesty there. I was pretty trigger-happy at your age too. up

Think about this though: the older I got, the less trigger-happy I got. And my animals taken kept getting better and better. Funny how that works....


Originally Posted by Russ79
I learned long ago you can't reason someone out of something they don't reason themselves into.


Re: Rant: Newbies & Long Distance [Re: chital_shikari] #6374599 07/19/16 04:14 PM
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Not sure how it fits into this conversation, but I have lease buddies who start blasting at doves when they're still 100 yards away. Is this considered long range hunting, or do I have stupid lease buddies? I ask them why we bother setting up the Mojos within 20 yards if they're shooting at 100.

Re: Rant: Newbies & Long Distance [Re: bigjoe8565] #6374953 07/19/16 09:08 PM
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Originally Posted By: bigjoe8565
Not sure how it fits into this conversation, but I have lease buddies who start blasting at doves when they're still 100 yards away. Is this considered long range hunting, or do I have stupid lease buddies? I ask them why we bother setting up the Mojos within 20 yards if they're shooting at 100.
Its stupidity, unless y'all have invented the sniper shotgun.

Re: Rant: Newbies & Long Distance [Re: chital_shikari] #6375193 07/20/16 12:36 AM
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I think the better term is they are steering the dove to another field where their buddies (who are better shots) are hunting, thereby increasing their hunting yield and illegally claiming their limit while not actually hunting there clap

Last edited by Texas buckeye; 07/20/16 12:36 AM.
Re: Rant: Newbies & Long Distance [Re: Texas buckeye] #6375209 07/20/16 12:52 AM
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Originally Posted By: Texas buckeye
I think the better term is they are steering the dove to another field where their buddies (who are better shots) are hunting, thereby increasing their hunting yield and illegally claiming their limit while not actually hunting there clap




Keep em moving roflmao


Re: Rant: Newbies & Long Distance [Re: chital_shikari] #6375943 07/20/16 04:09 PM
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It's all about responsibility in the end. If you take a shot you are responsible for the outcome. Shooting axis with a small caliber rifle at long range is not responsible... It's just common sense. I think you learned your lesson though when you chased her through the woods to get the job done.....experience

If you made the same shot will a bigger caliber and better bullet things would've gone better and you definitely know that....common sense

If you have the gun/bullet to get the job done at the distance and have shot the range before and know your capable through experience then you can take the shot and know your ok. If you feel uneasy and unsure you just don't do it...it's just responsible to hunt that way.

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