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Cecil - some facts after "the fact"
#6363562
07/09/16 05:06 PM
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Joined: Oct 2012
Posts: 25,239
Creekrunner
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Even though I don't think the dentist/hunter is a guy I'd "hit it off" with by a long shot, it is interesting to read some belated, scientific facts: Conservation force summary: Summary Oxford University Wildlife Conservation Research Unit (the folks that put the collar on "Cecil") report: Report I too am tired of hearing about Cecil, but, as with a lot of inflated social media stories, reality didn't match the emotions of the rabid twitter and farcebook posters.
...and have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over every living thing that moveth upon the earth. Gen. 1:28
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Re: Cecil - some facts after "the fact"
[Re: Creekrunner]
#6363669
07/09/16 06:41 PM
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Joined: Mar 2009
Posts: 7,825
poisonivie
THF Trophy Hunter
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THF Trophy Hunter
Joined: Mar 2009
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The summary was a good read but the Report was educated jibberish that hurts the brain to read.
Pee on Photobucket
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Re: Cecil - some facts after "the fact"
[Re: Creekrunner]
#6363707
07/09/16 07:32 PM
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Joined: Apr 2009
Posts: 5,560
Slow Drifter
THF Trophy Hunter
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Joined: Apr 2009
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Good read. It was reported fairly eary that the only illegal activity was the removing of the tracking collar by the PH and not by authorities. That tidbit was seldom passed on by "news" sources, though. It's sad to think what will become of Africa's wildlife now that a large amount of hunting dollars have been denied to their support.
"I have no idea what WW-III will be fought with, but WW-IV will be fought with sticks and stones." A. Einstein
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Re: Cecil - some facts after "the fact"
[Re: Creekrunner]
#6364385
07/10/16 03:46 PM
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Joined: Aug 2014
Posts: 2,136
EddieWalker
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I didn't read the link, but wanted to comment on the hunts I'm seeing for lions in South Africa being reduced to half what they where going for last year. Sadly, I think once the price for these hunts hits a certain low, breeders will no longer raise them, villagers will poach more of them and outfitters will lose all interest in protecting them. Whatever the overall number of lions is in Africa today, if this continues, it will be significantly lower every year into the future until they are almost gone.
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Re: Cecil - some facts after "the fact"
[Re: Creekrunner]
#6367852
07/13/16 03:13 PM
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Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 60,423
BOBO the Clown
kind of a big deal
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kind of a big deal
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 60,423 |
Even though I don't think the dentist/hunter is a guy I'd "hit it off" with by a long shot, it is interesting to read some belated, scientific facts: Conservation force summary: Summary Oxford University Wildlife Conservation Research Unit (the folks that put the collar on "Cecil") report: Report I too am tired of hearing about Cecil, but, as with a lot of inflated social media stories, reality didn't match the emotions of the rabid twitter and farcebook posters. Fact that some people on this forum hung him with nothing other then a social media coming from a 3rd world country should be an eye opening experience. Going forward it should be a huge learning experience. With that said the ones on here that called him a pet etc. later on showed their true motivations and distaste for any hunting that they see beneath them. Those people in my mind aren't sportsmen or hunters. When their ideology makes them publicly denounce how others legally hunt, they are no longer about the greater good of the traditions and conservation that we all embrace. That ideology is morphed to zealous, intolerant and monopolizing view that will ultimately cause the loss of the North American Conservation model thus destroying hunting as we know it. Sometimes the shoe fits some times it doesn't.
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Re: Cecil - some facts after "the fact"
[Re: BOBO the Clown]
#6371867
07/17/16 11:09 AM
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Joined: Aug 2008
Posts: 7,806
Deerhunter61
THF Trophy Hunter
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THF Trophy Hunter
Joined: Aug 2008
Posts: 7,806 |
Even though I don't think the dentist/hunter is a guy I'd "hit it off" with by a long shot, it is interesting to read some belated, scientific facts: Conservation force summary: Summary Oxford University Wildlife Conservation Research Unit (the folks that put the collar on "Cecil") report: Report I too am tired of hearing about Cecil, but, as with a lot of inflated social media stories, reality didn't match the emotions of the rabid twitter and farcebook posters. Fact that some people on this forum hung him with nothing other then a social media coming from a 3rd world country should be an eye opening experience. Going forward it should be a huge learning experience. With that said the ones on here that called him a pet etc. later on showed their true motivations and distaste for any hunting that they see beneath them. Those people in my mind aren't sportsmen or hunters. When their ideology makes them publicly denounce how others legally hunt, they are no longer about the greater good of the traditions and conservation that we all embrace. That ideology is morphed to zealous, intolerant and monopolizing view that will ultimately cause the loss of the North American Conservation model thus destroying hunting as we know it. Sometimes the shoe fits some times it doesn't. Yep...
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Re: Cecil - some facts after "the fact"
[Re: Creekrunner]
#6371974
07/17/16 02:23 PM
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Joined: Nov 2010
Posts: 27,091
Nogalus Prairie
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In hindsight, the optics were pretty predictable. It was not a legal hunt. A park lion was illegally lured out of the park and shot. The ones responsible have been charged. The hunter has not been charged. Was the whole episode regrettable? Yes. Did it engender outsized wrongheaded coverage by many folks with no understanding of the benefits of trophy hunting to species as a whole? Certainly.
Unfortunately, that's a risk when illegal activity takes place. Or even some legal activities that have poor optics. So, yes, it should be an eye-opening experience for all.
The North American Conservation Model has nothing to do with the Cecil episode. But, many of the activities that currently take place under the guise of "hunting" (legal or not) violate its core tenets (wildlife held as public trust and no marketing of wildlife, to name just two) with impunity. Which is why many of the the most well-known conservation groups who helped develop and adhere to the NACM fight against them.
I learned long ago you can't reason someone out of something they don't reason themselves into.
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Re: Cecil - some facts after "the fact"
[Re: Nogalus Prairie]
#6371987
07/17/16 02:39 PM
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Joined: Oct 2012
Posts: 25,239
Creekrunner
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In hindsight, the optics were pretty predictable. It was not a legal hunt. A park lion was illegally lured out of the park and shot. The ones responsible have been charged. The hunter has not been charged. Was the whole episode regrettable? Yes. Did it engender outsized wrongheaded coverage by many folks with no understanding of the benefits of trophy hunting to species as a whole? Certainly.
Unfortunately, that's a risk when illegal activity takes place. Or even some legal activities that have poor optics. So, yes, it should be an eye-opening experience for all.
The North American Conservation Model has nothing to do with the Cecil episode. But, many of the activities that currently take place under the guise of "hunting" (legal or not) violate its core tenets (wildlife held as public trust and no marketing of wildlife, to name just two) with impunity. Which is why many of the the most well-known conservation groups who helped develop and adhere to the NACM fight against them. Did you even glance at the links I posted? Not what I'd call good case prep.
...and have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over every living thing that moveth upon the earth. Gen. 1:28
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Re: Cecil - some facts after "the fact"
[Re: Creekrunner]
#6371992
07/17/16 02:45 PM
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Joined: Nov 2010
Posts: 27,091
Nogalus Prairie
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There are competing accounts on that score. I'll certainly accept the fact finding conclusions when they come out in the court proceedings.
Certainly looks like those charges should be dropped from the link you posted.
Last edited by Nogalus Prairie; 07/17/16 02:54 PM.
I learned long ago you can't reason someone out of something they don't reason themselves into.
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Re: Cecil - some facts after "the fact"
[Re: Creekrunner]
#6372373
07/17/16 09:38 PM
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Joined: Dec 2012
Posts: 2,205
LuckyHunter
Veteran Tracker
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Some people have such a deep personal agenda so clouded by only their self serving conclusions even when faced with facts......
Lucky 7 Exotic Ranch located in Eden, Tx. Well managed self sustaining herds roaming our 3,000 acre ranch. First Class Lodging, Ranch style meals and qualified guides. 30+ species.
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Re: Cecil - some facts after "the fact"
[Re: Nogalus Prairie]
#6374543
07/19/16 03:48 PM
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Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 60,423
BOBO the Clown
kind of a big deal
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kind of a big deal
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 60,423 |
In hindsight, the optics were pretty predictable. It was not a legal hunt. A park lion was illegally lured out of the park and shot. The ones responsible have been charged. The hunter has not been charged. Was the whole episode regrettable? Yes. Did it engender outsized wrongheaded coverage by many folks with no understanding of the benefits of trophy hunting to species as a whole? Certainly.
Unfortunately, that's a risk when illegal activity takes place. Or even some legal activities that have poor optics. So, yes, it should be an eye-opening experience for all.
The North American Conservation Model has nothing to do with the Cecil episode. But, many of the activities that currently take place under the guise of "hunting" (legal or not) violate its core tenets (wildlife held as public trust and no marketing of wildlife, to name just two) with impunity. Which is why many of the the most well-known conservation groups who helped develop and adhere to the NACM fight against them. Lol..... You agruements are invalid until you learn to read links in threads you post in. It's like the tenth time you have trolled a topic with out actually reading. North American Conservative model is under attack by the very same people the made up false accounts of how he was hunted and taken. How much of our federal wild life budgets are being wasted fighting frivolous lawsuits over delisting of wolves and Grizzlies(that have greatly exceeded sustainability number goals by 3x-10x? there is a trend going on right now. Anti's have figured out how to stop hunting and that's tag availbility. Shut down the most effective ways to hunt bears and Lions in Cali and bear and lion numbers explode and deer numbers take huge decline. Introduce non native wolf subspecies in to yellow stone and watch 20k elk go to 4K, then when wolves naturally move out to find more game, Tenton area looses 1k tags for lack of elk. Idaho elk population, success rates and hunting revenue plummets. There are measures on the ballot in Idaho to stop trapping, thus increasing wolf populations. State of NM is fighting Feds right now on more wolf introduction. CO, Washington,Oregon Cali, Nevada, and Utah are seeing migrating non native wolve sub species now. Higher those numbers rise less tags and success rates hunters will see. Your agruements are about your own ideology and never the greater good. It's a free country so do as you please but stop whining when people get sick of it. In the mean time the American Conservation model is loosing its ability to manage our wildlife for and via humans. Apex predators are now managing the wildlife for thier consumption
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Re: Cecil - some facts after "the fact"
[Re: Creekrunner]
#6374556
07/19/16 03:54 PM
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Joined: Nov 2010
Posts: 27,091
Nogalus Prairie
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Joined: Nov 2010
Posts: 27,091 |
I ain't a fan of the current wolf or bear situation, if that makes you feel better....
It's a perversion of any conservation model no doubt. Recovery well past initial goals and the goalposts keep getting moved back.
I learned long ago you can't reason someone out of something they don't reason themselves into.
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Re: Cecil - some facts after "the fact"
[Re: Nogalus Prairie]
#6374644
07/19/16 04:50 PM
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Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 60,423
BOBO the Clown
kind of a big deal
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kind of a big deal
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 60,423 |
I ain't a fan of the current wolf or bear situation, if that makes you feel better....
It's a perversion of any conservation model no doubt. Recovery well past initial goals and the goalposts keep getting moved back. It actually does, because it means you have the ability to see the anti methodology at work and how it collates worldwide. When Africa falls it means we are close behind. Hunting has defined how you and I grew up and we over came life's obstacles, our kids will do the same but our grandkids and great grandkids maybe not so much. You and I no matter how much we greatly disagree at times don't want that for your or my prodigy.
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Re: Cecil - some facts after "the fact"
[Re: BOBO the Clown]
#6374672
07/19/16 05:13 PM
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Joined: Oct 2012
Posts: 25,239
Creekrunner
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You and I no matter how much we greatly disagree at times don't want that for your or my prodigy. You mean "progeny". Except for MY grandkids. They, of course, are prodigies.
...and have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over every living thing that moveth upon the earth. Gen. 1:28
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Re: Cecil - some facts after "the fact"
[Re: Creekrunner]
#6374678
07/19/16 05:17 PM
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Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 60,423
BOBO the Clown
kind of a big deal
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kind of a big deal
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 60,423 |
You and I no matter how much we greatly disagree at times don't want that for your or my prodigy. You mean "progeny". Except for MY grandkids. They, of course, are prodigies. Lol ya that's would be a little akward
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Re: Cecil - some facts after "the fact"
[Re: Creekrunner]
#6374695
07/19/16 05:26 PM
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Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 12,263
A.B.
Obi-Wan Kenobi
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Obi-Wan Kenobi
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 12,263 |
Oh Lord not the lion again. One of my darkest days on this forum.
Talent is a gift, character is a decision.
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Re: Cecil - some facts after "the fact"
[Re: Creekrunner]
#6374700
07/19/16 05:32 PM
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Joined: Jul 2010
Posts: 6,862
HuntnFly67
THF Trophy Hunter
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THF Trophy Hunter
Joined: Jul 2010
Posts: 6,862 |
You and I no matter how much we greatly disagree at times don't want that for your or my prodigy. You mean "progeny". Except for MY grandkids. They, of course, are prodigies. Uh-oh. Bobo no use big words good. Geeez, I crack me up. With regard to the topic of this thread, never underestimate the value of a good social media smear campaign and e-dogpile. I'm pretty sure I don't want to hang out with the dentist, but for it to cause him to have to shutter his practice and thus lose his livelihood - that was unacceptable.
Last edited by HuntnFly67; 07/19/16 05:33 PM.
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Re: Cecil - some facts after "the fact"
[Re: A.B.]
#6374706
07/19/16 05:36 PM
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Joined: Oct 2012
Posts: 25,239
Creekrunner
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Oh Lord not the lion again. One of my darkest days on this forum. Fear not, my friend.
...and have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over every living thing that moveth upon the earth. Gen. 1:28
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Re: Cecil - some facts after "the fact"
[Re: HuntnFly67]
#6374724
07/19/16 05:51 PM
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Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 60,423
BOBO the Clown
kind of a big deal
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kind of a big deal
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 60,423 |
You and I no matter how much we greatly disagree at times don't want that for your or my prodigy. You mean "progeny". Except for MY grandkids. They, of course, are prodigies. Uh-oh. Bobo no use big words good. Geeez, I crack me up. With regard to the topic of this thread, never underestimate the value of a good social media smear campaign and e-dogpile. I'm pretty sure I don't want to hang out with the dentist, but for it to cause him to have to shutter his practice and thus lose his livelihood - that was unacceptable. ya that was embarrassing
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Re: Cecil - some facts after "the fact"
[Re: Creekrunner]
#6374832
07/19/16 07:12 PM
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Joined: Jan 2012
Posts: 9,273
blackcoal
THF Trophy Hunter
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Joined: Jan 2012
Posts: 9,273 |
JMO but I believe this would have never reached the world if it hadn't have been for the incident with the black bear. Heck, when Dick Cheaney shot the attorney in the face while quail hunting at the Armstrong Ranch it didn't get the attention of this trophy hunting dentist.
The Greatest Enemy of knowledge is not ignorance, it is the illusion of knowledge.--Stephen Hawking
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Re: Cecil - some facts after "the fact"
[Re: Creekrunner]
#6374862
07/19/16 07:38 PM
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Joined: Nov 2010
Posts: 27,091
Nogalus Prairie
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Posts: 27,091 |
BOBO did not misspeak. I'm sure our progeny will be prodigies.
Last edited by Nogalus Prairie; 07/19/16 07:38 PM.
I learned long ago you can't reason someone out of something they don't reason themselves into.
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Re: Cecil - some facts after "the fact"
[Re: BOBO the Clown]
#6374867
07/19/16 07:40 PM
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Joined: Apr 2011
Posts: 29,034
Western
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You and I no matter how much we greatly disagree at times don't want that for your or my prodigy. You mean "progeny". Except for MY grandkids. They, of course, are prodigies. Uh-oh. Bobo no use big words good. Geeez, I crack me up. With regard to the topic of this thread, never underestimate the value of a good social media smear campaign and e-dogpile. I'm pretty sure I don't want to hang out with the dentist, but for it to cause him to have to shutter his practice and thus lose his livelihood - that was unacceptable. ya that was embarrassing Get a hold of the right MOD, and it can disappear.... "prodigy" sounds like a painfull medical procedure
If at first you dont succeed, then skydiving is not for you..
"Don't trust everything you read on the Internet"- Abraham Lincoln Dennis
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Re: Cecil - some facts after "the fact"
[Re: Creekrunner]
#6374873
07/19/16 07:45 PM
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Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 12,263
A.B.
Obi-Wan Kenobi
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Obi-Wan Kenobi
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 12,263 |
I will remember Gile's error when our yearly debit of public vs private education comes up!
Talent is a gift, character is a decision.
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Re: Cecil - some facts after "the fact"
[Re: Creekrunner]
#6374883
07/19/16 07:58 PM
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Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 60,423
BOBO the Clown
kind of a big deal
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kind of a big deal
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 60,423 |
Well played..... But I've taken a lot of hits to the head after high school graduation
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Re: Cecil - some facts after "the fact"
[Re: BOBO the Clown]
#6374887
07/19/16 08:03 PM
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Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 12,263
A.B.
Obi-Wan Kenobi
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Obi-Wan Kenobi
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 12,263 |
Well played..... But I've taken a lot of hits to the head after high school graduation Touché
Talent is a gift, character is a decision.
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