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#6367036 - 07/12/16 01:35 PM Berger VLD-Hunting Bullet Hog Hunting Results
Double Naught Spy Online   content
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Registered: 05/18/11
Posts: 4182
Loc: Forestburg, Montague Cnty, TX
Three months of hunting, problems with video, only using data that came from hogs solely shot by me, and way too much time in video production and I have a final summary video on the performance of the Berger VLD-Hunting bullets with hogs.

If you want to see a good sampling of what these bullets will do to hogs, then this video is for you. It is a bit long, but that is because each example is discussed in brief.

Here is my video...


If you are wondering why I mention hydrostatic shock in the video, here are Berger's claims about it...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_8j-7D-bubQ
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pDoTOoCR2_A

Berger makes some claims that their bullets open at 3-5" to do damage to vital organs with multiple wound channels. Based on their graphic and my experience, the bullets open up in 1-2" and do "massive" damage deep into the body or until they exit the body.

I think hydrostatic shock is not a good selling point for this bullet in 6.5 Grendel. Too many shots should have resulted in good hydrostatic stops, if not kills, that just didn't happen.

One of the claims Berger makes is that if the animal doesn't drop, it won't run too far. "Far" is very relative. In a recently plowed open and flat field where you have clear line of sight, an animal can go 200 or 300 yards and not be too far. In heavy brush, often the brush surrounding fields, animals can disappear quickly. Crawling on game trails under cedar trees, cactus, and through briar and poison ivy makes distances become "too far" pretty quick.

So the Berger VLD-Hunting isn't a magic bullet, but it is a very good hog bullet. I would happily used this bullet again on hogs. I like what it does to them. As a depredation hunter, while I do want to recover my hogs (proof of kill is important to justify my endeavors to landowners), knowing that the hogs will be dead in a short period of time due to extensive bodily damage means that the hunt is still beneficial to landowners. Berger VLD-Hunting bullets are the bullets to produce that sort of damage.


Edited by Double Naught Spy (07/12/16 01:35 PM)
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#6367059 - 07/12/16 02:09 PM Re: Berger VLD-Hunting Bullet Hog Hunting Results [Re: Double Naught Spy]
FiremanJG Offline
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Registered: 12/16/08
Posts: 17893
Loc: Wolfe City, TX
Don't have time to watch the video, but thank you for doing the research. I am a little surprised that they worked well on those tough critters. I love them for everything I've shot them into, which only excludes hogs. I just haven't had Berger's loaded when a hog presents itself. Though anytime one (or multiple) show up, and I am loaded with Berger's I'll certainly not think twice about shooting them, not that I would have before.

Again, thank you for the information. up
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#6367112 - 07/12/16 03:29 PM Re: Berger VLD-Hunting Bullet Hog Hunting Results [Re: Double Naught Spy]
Pig_Popper Online   content
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Registered: 08/16/15
Posts: 581
Loc: Fort Worth
DNS -

Your video is quite extensive and certainly is received as value-added information for hog hunters.

I'd like to pitch my opinion atop your video to generate some food for thought.

1) I believe the VLD bullet design pre-dates the 6.5 Grendel and/or was not a bullet design factored into Bill Alexander's original chamber design, so I'd be interested to know Berger's and/or Precision Firearms position on the bullet's expected performance at 2400 FPS. The links to the Berger marketing videos would probably pertain more to .260 Remington or 6.5 Creedmoor velocity figures (2950 FPS) and be somewhat related to 1x8 barrel twist elements to fully achieve effects as designed.

2) If I were plunking down $ 2.00 a round for "premium ammunition" which I believe is the cost of these rounds from Precision Firearms, I'd be looking for magic bullet performance. Your field testing with the added bonus of video footage seems to indicate inconsistencies with weapon/target interaction. In other words you shot multiple hogs in the same manner and received varying results which I believe hog hunters share the same experience with any ammunition, so why pay a premium, I guess is my point.

Note: Take a look at this article regarding the VLD hunting bullet http://www.bergerbullets.com/history-of-the-match-grade-berger-hunting-vld/

Specifically this excerpt: <snip> John pulled out a portable DVD player and showed us 45 minutes of bang flop after bang flop <snip> led us to decide to try them on game. In the next 6 months, we either shot or witnessed over 50 animals of various size being taken with the Berger VLD. Each animal acted in the same way as the animals in the video John showed us


It is interesting that they don't say how many total animals were shot in testing, did 50 of these account for 30 / 60 / 90 % of testing?

Perhaps hogs are just tougher animals in general and the results wouldn't match their testing...

Again thanks for sharing !


Edited by Pig_Popper (07/12/16 04:04 PM)
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#6367136 - 07/12/16 03:56 PM Re: Berger VLD-Hunting Bullet Hog Hunting Results [Re: Double Naught Spy]
Mickey Moose Offline
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Registered: 02/05/12
Posts: 2577
Very good, thanks for the time, effort and sharing.

How do you explain the following cropped frame taken from the beginning of your video??



Clearly something not of this world drove "through" the pole!
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#6367150 - 07/12/16 04:10 PM Re: Berger VLD-Hunting Bullet Hog Hunting Results [Re: Double Naught Spy]
Double Naught Spy Online   content
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Registered: 05/18/11
Posts: 4182
Loc: Forestburg, Montague Cnty, TX
Pig Popper...
Let's focus on the bullet and not the ammunition and since reloading is what so many Grendeliers do (and they keep telling me how cheap it is to reload, LOL). The bullets are basically 50 cents each. It is a pricey bullet, but Nosler Accubonds are about the same price and Barnes is pricier. I used Precision Firearms' ammo because I don't reload. What I can tell you is that they did an outstanding job of loading the ammo. It grouped very well from my gun and had a SD in the low teens. They load for match precision, regardless of how I shoot. I have no qualms with Precision Firearms. They delivered exactly what they promised, very good, consistent ammunition.

As a very long distance bullet, 2400 fps is just about like shooting a three hundred yards farther out with the 6.5 Creedmore @ 1950 right? So my 150 yard shot would be like a 450 yard Creedmore shot, well within the performance envelope of the Berger design parameters.

Twist rate for the Berger VLD-Hunting 6.5 130 gr? 1:9 or better. I got that covered with the Grendel.

What is fairly consistent about the bullet performance are the amounts of penetration and tissue destruction that goes on after hitting the hogs. My only real quibble is this notion of how Berger bullets are supposed to produce hydrostatic shock to drop the animal. For Berger, as with other bullets, if the bullet doesn't directly impact CNS structures, you can't rely on there being a CNS stop as would happen with the indirect impact imparted by hydrostatic stops. Hydrostatic stops are more of a bonus that may occur than an absolute that will occur, IMHO, despite the hype.

This is definitely not a round that drills a nice hole though the animal, with an expanded tip, preserving meat. This is a large volume soft tissue destroying, deep penetrating round, and one that seemed to handle bone fairly well, also.

I have a few more rounds, but have moved on to some other bullets. If I was a reloader, I don't know that I would spend the extra quarter per bullet over the Hornady SST 123 gr. that have worked so well for me.

Mickey Moose...
You are the first person to notice that! I got a laugh out of it at the time when I saw it and so had to include it. It looks like what you say, but is just two nearly parallel livestock trails.


Edited by Double Naught Spy (07/13/16 11:01 AM)
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#6367217 - 07/12/16 05:19 PM Re: Berger VLD-Hunting Bullet Hog Hunting Results [Re: Double Naught Spy]
Teal28 Offline
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Registered: 12/10/08
Posts: 3362
Loc: Hen House Tx
Nice video. I have been loading and shooting VLD's in my .308 and .270 for right at 5 years now. It is my go to hunting bullet and target. I have noticed, though never put much thought into it, the bullet does exactly what your video shows. Massive internal damage and exit wound but not the Hydrostatic shock. I've shot around 75 to 80 pigs with my 308 and several deer. only lost one hog but found a few days later. It was a 425yard shot through thick grass and I hit her low in the front shoulder. Had a few animals run 20yards or so but never further, most DRT or died with in a minute of being hit. The ones I remember dieing right away were the shoulder shots and ear shots. Maybe the impact of the bullet on bone created the shock vs just cutting meat and passing through?
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#6367222 - 07/12/16 05:23 PM Re: Berger VLD-Hunting Bullet Hog Hunting Results [Re: Double Naught Spy]
dee Offline
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Registered: 04/10/10
Posts: 4665
Loc: Red River way
Good post.

I'll add that the 6mm 105gr hybrid while not advertised as a hunting bullet is bad medicine on pigs running in 3k velocity area.
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#6367246 - 07/12/16 05:50 PM Re: Berger VLD-Hunting Bullet Hog Hunting Results [Re: Teal28]
Double Naught Spy Online   content
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Registered: 05/18/11
Posts: 4182
Loc: Forestburg, Montague Cnty, TX
Originally Posted By: Teal28
Nice video. I have been loading and shooting VLD's in my .308 and .270 for right at 5 years now. It is my go to hunting bullet and target. I have noticed, though never put much thought into it, the bullet does exactly what your video shows. Massive internal damage and exit wound but not the Hydrostatic shock. I've shot around 75 to 80 pigs with my 308 and several deer. only lost one hog but found a few days later. It was a 425yard shot through thick grass and I hit her low in the front shoulder. Had a few animals run 20yards or so but never further, most DRT or died with in a minute of being hit. The ones I remember dieing right away were the shoulder shots and ear shots. Maybe the impact of the bullet on bone created the shock vs just cutting meat and passing through?


Interesting follow-up. Thank you!
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#6367414 - 07/12/16 08:07 PM Re: Berger VLD-Hunting Bullet Hog Hunting Results [Re: Double Naught Spy]
dfwroadkill Offline
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Registered: 09/15/09
Posts: 3260
Loc: D/FW, TX
Your fun is turning into work my friend... LOL... Great post! grin

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#6367491 - 07/12/16 09:29 PM Re: Berger VLD-Hunting Bullet Hog Hunting Results [Re: Double Naught Spy]
bigjoe8565 Offline
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Registered: 06/30/08
Posts: 3830
Loc: Mesquite, Tx
Great video and very informative. I haven't hunted very long, but what I've learned is bullets do some funny things when they hit an animal. I no longer have the pictures, but my son in law shot a 50 pound pig in the spin about mid body. The bullet turned, traveled down the spine and shattered it's back leg. The bullet was a Barnes 70 grain TSX shot out of a 16" AR.

After watching the video again, I still stand by my original comment that you hit a third pig on a pass through when you shot the bleeder pig. The smaller pig behind the bleeder hog hits the ground and rolls over after you shoot.

On another note, does that Havalon knife work well?

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#6367508 - 07/12/16 09:44 PM Re: Berger VLD-Hunting Bullet Hog Hunting Results [Re: Double Naught Spy]
Double Naught Spy Online   content
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Registered: 05/18/11
Posts: 4182
Loc: Forestburg, Montague Cnty, TX
The Havalon works okay. They do NOT like lateral pressures on the blade. I have snapped a few, which is a pain because you have to stop work, find the part broken off in the hog, replace the blade, etc.

Probably works a lot better on thin skinned animals like deer.

I have changed over to an Outdoor Edge SwingBlaze that works very well, but like regular knives, does need to be be sharpened.
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#6367568 - 07/12/16 10:39 PM Re: Berger VLD-Hunting Bullet Hog Hunting Results [Re: Double Naught Spy]
ckat Offline
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Registered: 12/02/09
Posts: 1072
Loc: Lubbock Area
Originally Posted By: Double Naught Spy
The Havalon works okay. They do NOT like lateral pressures on the blade. I have snapped a few, which is a pain because you have to stop work, find the part broken off in the hog, replace the blade, etc.

Probably works a lot better on thin skinned animals like deer.

I have changed over to an Outdoor Edge SwingBlaze that works very well, but like regular knives, does need to be be sharpened.


Not to get too far off of topic; but if you have not, try the #60A blade in your Havalon. It is a tougher blade than the 60/60XTs and will drastically cut down on broken blades.

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#6367570 - 07/12/16 10:40 PM Re: Berger VLD-Hunting Bullet Hog Hunting Results [Re: Double Naught Spy]
Double Naught Spy Online   content
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Registered: 05/18/11
Posts: 4182
Loc: Forestburg, Montague Cnty, TX
up
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#6368013 - 07/13/16 12:52 PM Re: Berger VLD-Hunting Bullet Hog Hunting Results [Re: Double Naught Spy]
Korean Redneck Online   content


Registered: 06/24/09
Posts: 2277
Loc: Houston
Cool video dude. Even the production was superb. I have been wanting a Grendel for a while and the way I plan on selling it to the wife is for it to be a hunting rifle for my 5 month old girl. But I wasn't too sure how good of a hunting caliber it would be. I'm convinced it will be good enough.

What rifle r u shooting? Details would be appreciated.

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#6368227 - 07/13/16 04:34 PM Re: Berger VLD-Hunting Bullet Hog Hunting Results [Re: Double Naught Spy]
Double Naught Spy Online   content
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Registered: 05/18/11
Posts: 4182
Loc: Forestburg, Montague Cnty, TX
That is an Alexander Arms upper with a 20" Shilen barrel on an LMT lower. Scope is an Armasight Zeus 3-24x75mm, 640.
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