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Max Online: 16728 @ 03/25/12 08:51 AM
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#6363562 - 07/09/16 12:06 PM Cecil - some facts after "the fact"
Creekrunner Online   happy
THF Trophy Hunter

Registered: 10/19/12
Posts: 7194
Loc: Bexar/Gillespie, hunt Terrell
Even though I don't think the dentist/hunter is a guy I'd "hit it off" with by a long shot, it is interesting to read some belated, scientific facts:

Conservation force summary: Summary

Oxford University Wildlife Conservation Research Unit (the folks that put the collar on "Cecil") report: Report


I too am tired of hearing about Cecil, but, as with a lot of inflated social media stories, reality didn't match the emotions of the rabid twitter and farcebook posters.
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#6363669 - 07/09/16 01:41 PM Re: Cecil - some facts after "the fact" [Re: Creekrunner]
poisonivie Online   happy


Registered: 03/10/09
Posts: 7079
Loc: Bridgeport, Tx
The summary was a good read but the Report was educated jibberish that hurts the brain to read.
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Where did America go? I can't find her.

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#6363707 - 07/09/16 02:32 PM Re: Cecil - some facts after "the fact" [Re: Creekrunner]
Slow Drifter Offline


Registered: 04/09/09
Posts: 4253
Loc: Central Texas
Good read. It was reported fairly eary that the only illegal activity was the removing of the tracking collar by the PH and not by authorities. That tidbit was seldom passed on by "news" sources, though. It's sad to think what will become of Africa's wildlife now that a large amount of hunting dollars have been denied to their support.
_________________________
"I have no idea what WW-III will be fought with, but WW-IV will be fought with sticks and stones."

A. Einstein


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#6364385 - 07/10/16 10:46 AM Re: Cecil - some facts after "the fact" [Re: Creekrunner]
EddieWalker Online   content
Pro Tracker

Registered: 08/06/14
Posts: 1175
Loc: Tyler, TX
I didn't read the link, but wanted to comment on the hunts I'm seeing for lions in South Africa being reduced to half what they where going for last year. Sadly, I think once the price for these hunts hits a certain low, breeders will no longer raise them, villagers will poach more of them and outfitters will lose all interest in protecting them. Whatever the overall number of lions is in Africa today, if this continues, it will be significantly lower every year into the future until they are almost gone.

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#6367852 - 07/13/16 10:13 AM Re: Cecil - some facts after "the fact" [Re: Creekrunner]
BOBO the Clown Offline
decoy

Registered: 04/19/07
Posts: 41102
Loc: Metroplex
Originally Posted By: Creekrunner
Even though I don't think the dentist/hunter is a guy I'd "hit it off" with by a long shot, it is interesting to read some belated, scientific facts:

Conservation force summary: Summary

Oxford University Wildlife Conservation Research Unit (the folks that put the collar on "Cecil") report: Report


I too am tired of hearing about Cecil, but, as with a lot of inflated social media stories, reality didn't match the emotions of the rabid twitter and farcebook posters.


Fact that some people on this forum hung him with nothing other then a social media coming from a 3rd world country should be an eye opening experience. Going forward it should be a huge learning experience.

With that said the ones on here that called him a pet etc. later on showed their true motivations and distaste for any hunting that they see beneath them. Those people in my mind aren't sportsmen or hunters. When their ideology makes them publicly denounce how others legally hunt, they are no longer about the greater good of the traditions and conservation that we all embrace. That ideology is morphed to zealous, intolerant and monopolizing view that will ultimately cause the loss of the North American Conservation model thus destroying hunting as we know it. Sometimes the shoe fits some times it doesn't.

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#6371867 - 07/17/16 06:09 AM Re: Cecil - some facts after "the fact" [Re: BOBO the Clown]
Deerhunter61 Online   content
THF Trophy Hunter

Registered: 08/27/08
Posts: 5516
Loc: DFW
Originally Posted By: BOBO the Clown
Originally Posted By: Creekrunner
Even though I don't think the dentist/hunter is a guy I'd "hit it off" with by a long shot, it is interesting to read some belated, scientific facts:

Conservation force summary: Summary

Oxford University Wildlife Conservation Research Unit (the folks that put the collar on "Cecil") report: Report


I too am tired of hearing about Cecil, but, as with a lot of inflated social media stories, reality didn't match the emotions of the rabid twitter and farcebook posters.


Fact that some people on this forum hung him with nothing other then a social media coming from a 3rd world country should be an eye opening experience. Going forward it should be a huge learning experience.

With that said the ones on here that called him a pet etc. later on showed their true motivations and distaste for any hunting that they see beneath them. Those people in my mind aren't sportsmen or hunters. When their ideology makes them publicly denounce how others legally hunt, they are no longer about the greater good of the traditions and conservation that we all embrace. That ideology is morphed to zealous, intolerant and monopolizing view that will ultimately cause the loss of the North American Conservation model thus destroying hunting as we know it. Sometimes the shoe fits some times it doesn't.



Yep...

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#6371974 - 07/17/16 09:23 AM Re: Cecil - some facts after "the fact" [Re: Creekrunner]
Nogalus Prairie Online   content
THF Celebrity

Registered: 11/22/10
Posts: 19276
Loc: Corsicana
In hindsight, the optics were pretty predictable. It was not a legal hunt. A park lion was illegally lured out of the park and shot. The ones responsible have been charged. The hunter has not been charged. Was the whole episode regrettable? Yes. Did it engender outsized wrongheaded coverage by many folks with no understanding of the benefits of trophy hunting to species as a whole? Certainly.

Unfortunately, that's a risk when illegal activity takes place. Or even some legal activities that have poor optics. So, yes, it should be an eye-opening experience for all.

The North American Conservation Model has nothing to do with the Cecil episode. But, many of the activities that currently take place under the guise of "hunting" (legal or not) violate its core tenets (wildlife held as public trust and no marketing of wildlife, to name just two) with impunity. Which is why many of the the most well-known conservation groups who helped develop and adhere to the NACM fight against them.
_________________________
Originally Posted By: REALKILLER
That's the way I hunt don't know many that do. If a deer gets buy me I will try to run him down. Ive killed a bunch that way.



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#6371987 - 07/17/16 09:39 AM Re: Cecil - some facts after "the fact" [Re: Nogalus Prairie]
Creekrunner Online   happy
THF Trophy Hunter

Registered: 10/19/12
Posts: 7194
Loc: Bexar/Gillespie, hunt Terrell
Originally Posted By: Nogalus Prairie
In hindsight, the optics were pretty predictable. It was not a legal hunt. A park lion was illegally lured out of the park and shot. The ones responsible have been charged. The hunter has not been charged. Was the whole episode regrettable? Yes. Did it engender outsized wrongheaded coverage by many folks with no understanding of the benefits of trophy hunting to species as a whole? Certainly.

Unfortunately, that's a risk when illegal activity takes place. Or even some legal activities that have poor optics. So, yes, it should be an eye-opening experience for all.

The North American Conservation Model has nothing to do with the Cecil episode. But, many of the activities that currently take place under the guise of "hunting" (legal or not) violate its core tenets (wildlife held as public trust and no marketing of wildlife, to name just two) with impunity. Which is why many of the the most well-known conservation groups who helped develop and adhere to the NACM fight against them.


Did you even glance at the links I posted? Not what I'd call good case prep.
_________________________
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#6371992 - 07/17/16 09:45 AM Re: Cecil - some facts after "the fact" [Re: Creekrunner]
Nogalus Prairie Online   content
THF Celebrity

Registered: 11/22/10
Posts: 19276
Loc: Corsicana
There are competing accounts on that score. I'll certainly accept the fact finding conclusions when they come out in the court proceedings.

Certainly looks like those charges should be dropped from the link you posted.


Edited by Nogalus Prairie (07/17/16 09:54 AM)
_________________________
Originally Posted By: REALKILLER
That's the way I hunt don't know many that do. If a deer gets buy me I will try to run him down. Ive killed a bunch that way.



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#6372373 - 07/17/16 04:38 PM Re: Cecil - some facts after "the fact" [Re: Creekrunner]
SheepHunter Offline
Pro Tracker

Registered: 12/28/12
Posts: 1708
Loc: East Texas
Some people have such a deep personal agenda so clouded by only their self serving conclusions even when faced with facts......



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#6374543 - 07/19/16 10:48 AM Re: Cecil - some facts after "the fact" [Re: Nogalus Prairie]
BOBO the Clown Offline
decoy

Registered: 04/19/07
Posts: 41102
Loc: Metroplex
Originally Posted By: Nogalus Prairie
In hindsight, the optics were pretty predictable. It was not a legal hunt. A park lion was illegally lured out of the park and shot. The ones responsible have been charged. The hunter has not been charged. Was the whole episode regrettable? Yes. Did it engender outsized wrongheaded coverage by many folks with no understanding of the benefits of trophy hunting to species as a whole? Certainly.

Unfortunately, that's a risk when illegal activity takes place. Or even some legal activities that have poor optics. So, yes, it should be an eye-opening experience for all.

The North American Conservation Model has nothing to do with the Cecil episode. But, many of the activities that currently take place under the guise of "hunting" (legal or not) violate its core tenets (wildlife held as public trust and no marketing of wildlife, to name just two) with impunity. Which is why many of the the most well-known conservation groups who helped develop and adhere to the NACM fight against them.


Lol..... You agruements are invalid until you learn to read links in threads you post in. It's like the tenth time you have trolled a topic with out actually reading.

North American Conservative model is under attack by the very same people the made up false accounts of how he was hunted and taken.

How much of our federal wild life budgets are being wasted fighting frivolous lawsuits over delisting of wolves and Grizzlies(that have greatly exceeded sustainability number goals by 3x-10x? there is a trend going on right now. Anti's have figured out how to stop hunting and that's tag availbility. Shut down the most effective ways to hunt bears and Lions in Cali and bear and lion numbers explode and deer numbers take huge decline. Introduce non native wolf subspecies in to yellow stone and watch 20k elk go to 4K, then when wolves naturally move out to find more game, Tenton area looses 1k tags for lack of elk. Idaho elk population, success rates and hunting revenue plummets. There are measures on the ballot in Idaho to stop trapping, thus increasing wolf populations. State of NM is fighting Feds right now on more wolf introduction. CO, Washington,Oregon Cali, Nevada, and Utah are seeing migrating non native wolve sub species now. Higher those numbers rise less tags and success rates hunters will see.

Your agruements are about your own ideology and never the greater good. It's a free country so do as you please but stop whining when people get sick of it.

In the mean time the American Conservation model is loosing its ability to manage our wildlife for and via humans. Apex predators are now managing the wildlife for thier consumption


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#6374556 - 07/19/16 10:54 AM Re: Cecil - some facts after "the fact" [Re: Creekrunner]
Nogalus Prairie Online   content
THF Celebrity

Registered: 11/22/10
Posts: 19276
Loc: Corsicana
I ain't a fan of the current wolf or bear situation, if that makes you feel better....

It's a perversion of any conservation model no doubt. Recovery well past initial goals and the goalposts keep getting moved back.
_________________________
Originally Posted By: REALKILLER
That's the way I hunt don't know many that do. If a deer gets buy me I will try to run him down. Ive killed a bunch that way.



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#6374644 - 07/19/16 11:50 AM Re: Cecil - some facts after "the fact" [Re: Nogalus Prairie]
BOBO the Clown Offline
decoy

Registered: 04/19/07
Posts: 41102
Loc: Metroplex
Originally Posted By: Nogalus Prairie
I ain't a fan of the current wolf or bear situation, if that makes you feel better....

It's a perversion of any conservation model no doubt. Recovery well past initial goals and the goalposts keep getting moved back.


It actually does, because it means you have the ability to see the anti methodology at work and how it collates worldwide. When Africa falls it means we are close behind. Hunting has defined how you and I grew up and we over came life's obstacles, our kids will do the same but our grandkids and great grandkids maybe not so much. You and I no matter how much we greatly disagree at times don't want that for your or my prodigy.

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#6374672 - 07/19/16 12:13 PM Re: Cecil - some facts after "the fact" [Re: BOBO the Clown]
Creekrunner Online   happy
THF Trophy Hunter

Registered: 10/19/12
Posts: 7194
Loc: Bexar/Gillespie, hunt Terrell
Originally Posted By: BOBO the Clown
You and I no matter how much we greatly disagree at times don't want that for your or my prodigy.


You mean "progeny". Except for MY grandkids. They, of course, are prodigies. grin bolt
_________________________
Get unique, vintage letter press Christmas cards and gift cards from my kid in FW >>>: https://www.etsy.com/shop/abbypress

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#6374678 - 07/19/16 12:17 PM Re: Cecil - some facts after "the fact" [Re: Creekrunner]
BOBO the Clown Offline
decoy

Registered: 04/19/07
Posts: 41102
Loc: Metroplex
Originally Posted By: Creekrunner
Originally Posted By: BOBO the Clown
You and I no matter how much we greatly disagree at times don't want that for your or my prodigy.


You mean "progeny". Except for MY grandkids. They, of course, are prodigies. grin bolt


Lol ya that's would be a little akward hammer

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