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#6358668 - 07/05/16 10:36 AM 6.5 CM vs 260 Rem
Texan Til I Die Offline
Pro Tracker

Registered: 08/18/09
Posts: 1759
Loc: Central Texas
Here's the scenario - I snagged a new Savage 12 at a ridiculously low price the other day and plan to use it in a long range build. I was planning on a 6.5, but wait times on a barrel are pretty long, at least 3 to 4 months. I can get a 260 barrel with no delay. So what would I be losing or gaining with the 260 instead of the 6.5? I will be handloading and don't currently have any components in either caliber other than the obvious stuff like primers and powder.
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#6358688 - 07/05/16 10:44 AM Re: 6.5 CM vs 260 Rem [Re: Texan Til I Die]
ChadTRG42 Offline
THF Trophy Hunter

Registered: 09/16/09
Posts: 9424
Loc: Lewisville, TX
The 260 has about 1 grain more case capacity than the 6.5 CM. With both rounds at equal pressure, the 260 will be about 75 fps faster than the CM with the same bullet. The problem with the 260 Rem is magazine room. To run the heavy 140 grain, high BC bullets, you have to seat them out long close to the lands. When you do this, you run into magazine length room. The CM has a shorter case, and seats the bullets to a shorter COAL and still be touching or close to the lands. If your magazine box can get out to 2.900", then the 260 will work fine. Most short action magazine boxes are about 2.860" max. This will still work fine for a 139 Scenar, or SMK. But you may need more room for a VLD type bullet. The 140 Hybrid will also work fine in it, too. I ran a 260 Rem in comps for 3200+ rounds. It did really well. I was seating the 140 VLD's to about 2.930", which was just short of max mag length in my modified AI mag.

For 260 brass, you can buy high end Lapua or Nosler brass. You can also make it from Winchester 7-08 brass by necking it down, which many shooters would do for added case volume over the Rem, Lapua and Nosler cases (for slightly higher speeds).

I'd go for it!

Also, if you need ammo, I can load you anything you need in either caliber, including subsonic!

http://dallasreloads.com/product-category/260-remington/

http://dallasreloads.com/product-category/6-5-creedmoor/

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#6358707 - 07/05/16 10:59 AM Re: 6.5 CM vs 260 Rem [Re: Texan Til I Die]
dee Offline
Extreme Tracker

Registered: 04/10/10
Posts: 4664
Loc: Red River way
The real answer to your question is 6.5x47L.
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#6358749 - 07/05/16 11:31 AM Re: 6.5 CM vs 260 Rem [Re: dee]
ChadTRG42 Offline
THF Trophy Hunter

Registered: 09/16/09
Posts: 9424
Loc: Lewisville, TX
Originally Posted By: dee
The real answer to your question is 6.5x47L.

True dat! I went 6.5x47 on my comp rifle, and will stick with this round for a long time.
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#6358776 - 07/05/16 11:53 AM Re: 6.5 CM vs 260 Rem [Re: ChadTRG42]
Texan Til I Die Offline
Pro Tracker

Registered: 08/18/09
Posts: 1759
Loc: Central Texas
Truthfully, I seldom use a magazine when shooting long range. I typically load one round at a time so magazine length isn't a big issue for me.

So let's bring the 6.5x47 into the discussion. What are the advantages of that cartridge? And for that matter, what about the 6.5-284?
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Silver spurs and gold tequila
keep me hanging on.
Pretty girls and old cantinas
give me shelter from the storm.

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#6358785 - 07/05/16 12:02 PM Re: 6.5 CM vs 260 Rem [Re: Texan Til I Die]
FiremanJG Offline
THF Celebrity

Registered: 12/16/08
Posts: 17893
Loc: Wolfe City, TX
Originally Posted By: Texan Til I Die
Truthfully, I seldom use a magazine when shooting long range. I typically load one round at a time so magazine length isn't a big issue for me.

So let's bring the 6.5x47 into the discussion. What are the advantages of that cartridge? And for that matter, what about the 6.5-284?


6.5 X 47 is stupid low ES, and brass lasts for a ton of firings. Dave has 10 loading on some of his brass, annealing after every firing. It produces less MV than the .260 or 6.5 CM, but it shoots extremely consistent shot to shot.

To take advantage of the powder room in the 6.5-284 I would put it in a long action.
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#6358801 - 07/05/16 12:18 PM Re: 6.5 CM vs 260 Rem [Re: Texan Til I Die]
dee Offline
Extreme Tracker

Registered: 04/10/10
Posts: 4664
Loc: Red River way
The 6.5x47 has a perfect node with the 140gr hybrid at 2750. No scorcher but stupid consistent. There are some that have a system to get almost 4k out of a barrel with it setup like that.
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#6358823 - 07/05/16 12:41 PM Re: 6.5 CM vs 260 Rem [Re: Texan Til I Die]
ChadTRG42 Offline
THF Trophy Hunter

Registered: 09/16/09
Posts: 9424
Loc: Lewisville, TX
The 6.5x47 Lapua was designed strictly to be an efficient cartridge for top accuracy and long case life. It has the optimum 30 degree shoulder angle, as does the CM. But the 6.5x47 uses a small rifle primer, instead of the large rifle primer of the CM and 260. The small rifle primer allows for a more consistent ignition, and allows the primer pocket to have more mass (brass) around the primer for better support and longer primer pocket life. On a CM after a few reloads, the Hornady brass wears out at the primer pocket (where the primer pocket loosens to where it will not hold another primer.) This is the most common way the Hornady brass wears out. On the x47, since there is a small rifle primer, there is more brass surrounding the primer pocket keeping it tighter for more firings. I know shooters with 15+ reloads on their x47 brass.

But the main benefit of running a x47 is consistency. When doing my load work up, I had multiple loads that were running sub 10 fps ES (extreme spread) on 5 shots (not SD, but ES). They all shot very well, so I selected the load that gave me the lowest ES numbers, which was 7 or 8, I forget exactly which. When shooting longer ranges (600+), this extremely tight ES numbers will minimize your vertical stringing due to velocity difference, or high ES numbers. The x47 is known for very low ES numbers and shooting tiny groups. (I'm not saying a 260 Rem or CM can not do these also, but the x47 is more consistent than those 2, which makes it easier for better groups further out.)

I'm running a 140 VLD at 2742 fps in a 23" barrel in my 6.5x47 Lapua (not a hot load, but a really good shooting load). A CM will run the same bullet about the same speed, maybe a touch faster at about 2760 to 2780, if pushed hard. The 260 Rem will run the same bullet about 2820, maybe a touch faster. IMO, there's no big deal between 40-50 fps in the 3 rounds.

If you plan to reload, the x47 will be less cost to shoot in the long run, if you save your brass. If you plan to reload and shoot PRS matches, the CM is a good choice because you lose a lot of your brass at these matches, and may not get the 3-4 reloads of the CM brass anyway (same with the x47).

The main thing is, I want something when I pull the trigger, I know where the bullet is going, exactly. It's what I describe in baseball terms- you hear hitters talking about the ball looks like a beach ball when it's coming in, and they can hit the ball very well during these times. Same goes for rifles. Once you know your rifle, scope, and ammo well enough, even the small targets start to look big, and you know you are going to hit the target before you pull the trigger. I want a round that will give me the best chance at making that hit. All 3 rounds can do this for you, once you learn your set up. But there are some calibers that begin to have an advantage over some. But the main thing, is practicing your set up and knowing your rifle and ammo, to become proficient with it. Make the target look like a beach ball!
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#6358850 - 07/05/16 01:03 PM Re: 6.5 CM vs 260 Rem [Re: Texan Til I Die]
cblackall Offline
Woodsman

Registered: 05/12/16
Posts: 114
Loc: Lewisville, TX
Chad would know the answer to this. Would you run into an issue with the boltface/firing pin system in the stock Savage due to the small rifle primer in the 6.5x47? Just a thought, if the O.P. wanted to go this route without too much modification.

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#6358860 - 07/05/16 01:10 PM Re: 6.5 CM vs 260 Rem [Re: cblackall]
ChadTRG42 Offline
THF Trophy Hunter

Registered: 09/16/09
Posts: 9424
Loc: Lewisville, TX
Originally Posted By: cblackall
Chad would know the answer to this. Would you run into an issue with the boltface/firing pin system in the stock Savage due to the small rifle primer in the 6.5x47? Just a thought, if the O.P. wanted to go this route without too much modification.


Simple answer, yes. My Surgeon is set up for this right now with the larger firing pin. But... with the small rifle primer being struck by the larger firing pin for large rifle primers, it weakens the area of the firing pin strike, and piercing primers can become an issue, even with mild to medium loads. To solve this, you get a bushing installed at the firing pin hole (to make the firing pin opening smaller) and install a smaller diameter firing pin for the small rifle primers. This solves the issue of piercing primers, if it becomes an issue. Over the course of shooting 600+ rounds of x47 ammo, I have had a few issues with piercing primers, and the debris that comes back into the bolt and trigger, and it can cause some issues.
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#6358882 - 07/05/16 01:30 PM Re: 6.5 CM vs 260 Rem [Re: Texan Til I Die]
Judd Offline


Registered: 01/22/09
Posts: 10758
Loc: Sachse, TX
Send the bolt to Gretan to have it bushed and you'd be good to go. Good point cblackall and Chad.
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#6359634 - 07/06/16 06:43 AM Re: 6.5 CM vs 260 Rem [Re: Texan Til I Die]
Korean Redneck Offline


Registered: 06/24/09
Posts: 2277
Loc: Houston
I've wondered the same before. Just to summarize, so I understand it clearly...

The 6.5x47 Lapua is the clear choice amongst the 3, in a vacuum with no additional criteria or consideration because of the smaller primer, followed by the 6.5cm and then 260.
Between 6.5cm and 260, they both have their advantages and disadvantages but y'all wouldn't hesitate using either caliber for the same purpose of their was some other external factor driving the decision. In this instance would be barrel availability.

Anything wrong with my conclusions. I've sorted of wondered the same over the years. 6.5cm I what I see a lot of lately but a personal benefit to me is that I have a trimmer that is specifically made for 308 shoulder cartridges. Thought that would be a stupid for that being the deciding factor to go 260.

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#6359915 - 07/06/16 10:58 AM Re: 6.5 CM vs 260 Rem [Re: Texan Til I Die]
Judd Offline


Registered: 01/22/09
Posts: 10758
Loc: Sachse, TX
KR...I'd agree. One you don't hear folks talk about is a 6.5SLR (SLR = Super Long Range), just to muddy the waters...I'd throw that in but it wouldn't work in the instance above regarding wanting to do a Savage pre-fit. It will be a full on custom/wilcat barrel. I have a 6SLR and it fixes the case geometry on a 243...as I understand it a 6.5SLR does the same fix on a 260 case but most start with a 243 case.

Here is the data/info on the 6.5SLR: http://www.6mmar.com/65_SuperLR.php
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#6360553 - 07/06/16 08:13 PM Re: 6.5 CM vs 260 Rem [Re: Texan Til I Die]
Buzzsaw Offline
THF Trophy Hunter

Registered: 06/29/11
Posts: 5023
Loc: Frisco, Texas
So WTF....after reading this, we should scrap all the creeds and .260's and build .47's

the builder of my 6.5 Weatherby told me if I wanted to shoot allot at one time to build a 6.5X47

Now Weatherby is building the 6.5X.300....screamer
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#6360561 - 07/06/16 08:19 PM Re: 6.5 CM vs 260 Rem [Re: Texan Til I Die]
Brother in-law Offline
THF Celebrity

Registered: 07/08/07
Posts: 24473
Go with the 6.5 creed

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