Main Menu
Advertisement
Affiliates
Advertisement
Newest Members
Cl3anslat3, VirginiaHunter, GoGo Gadjet, koondawgman, orlandowiebe
60480 Registered Users
Top Posters
dogcatcher 77527
stxranchman 52092
RWH24 44568
rifleman 43788
BOBO the Clown 41125
BMD 40539
Big Orn 37484
txshntr 33685
bill oxner 32683
sig226fan (Rguns.com) 30572
facebook
Forum Stats
60480 Members
45 Forums
476234 Topics
6247249 Posts

Max Online: 16728 @ 03/25/12 08:51 AM
Topic Options
#6352871 - 06/30/16 07:55 AM Pointer Training Advice Needed...
Zeiger Offline
Light Foot

Registered: 06/14/16
Posts: 15
Loc: Georgetown, Texas
I have a one year old GSP, have never trained a gun dog, and would appreciate your input! I posted a longer post explaining more about where my dog is in his training, and what I am looking for, in the Gun Dog thread. Please check it out and give me your feed back! Thanks!

Top
#6353059 - 06/30/16 10:04 AM Re: Pointer Training Advice Needed... [Re: Zeiger]
Zeiger Offline
Light Foot

Registered: 06/14/16
Posts: 15
Loc: Georgetown, Texas
Here is the post from the other thread:

Over the years I have hunted dove with others that have had gun dogs and have always wanted one of my own. Long story short I did a lot of research and ended up buying a German Shorthaired Pointer (Zeiger). He turned one year old this past Sunday (June 26th). I am looking for advice on training - tips, tricks, programs to follow....any input is appreciated. Ideally I would like to use him for pointing (quail, etc.) AND dove. Because of where I live (Georgetown, TX) I do more dove hunting but am wanting to get into quail and pheasant. I realize he is a pointer but have read that GSPs are good versatile dogs. I saw one a couple of years ago in a dove field outside of Pflugerville (her name was Abby) that was a stud at retrieving dove. She got all of her owners birds and a couple of mine! She is what got me looking at GSPs.

I bought Zeiger from a breeder in Kansas. I sent him back up there for training and just picked him up last Friday. He is currently trained to whoa, here, load up, finds and points birds, retrieves downed birds.....I want to have a plan of action to continue working with him on these commands and more. Right now he releases his point as soon as the bird flies - before the shot. I have read arguments for and against training to be steady to wing, shot, fall, etc...give me your thoughts and how I should proceed in training him. I would also like to teach him the heel command. He doesn't seem to like water much so I want to get him acclimated to water and I also need to work on his retrieve. He will always go get the bird, ball, or whatever you throw or shoot, however he doesn't always bring it all the way back.

I have never trained a dog to do more than a couple of tricks so Zeiger and I will be learning together.

I realize this is probably way too much information but I have never had a gun dog and want him to be trained right and ready to roll come bird season! Thanks in advance for your input.

Top
#6353539 - 06/30/16 03:48 PM Re: Pointer Training Advice Needed... [Re: Zeiger]
Houghtonic Offline
Light Foot

Registered: 03/14/14
Posts: 20
Loc: Central Texas
Best advice I could give you is to train that dog on force fetch. Sometimes referred to as trained retrieve. At the age last one year old it is a great foundation for a dog to handle birds after the shot properly. You can spend money on DVDs but I followed a YouTube series by standing stone kennels and it worked out great. After reinforcing the force fetch training start reinforcing steadiness (not leaving a sit or whoa till released) so you can be safe with your dog on dove hunts. I actually combine my retrieving reinforcement with some steadiness work and even started mixing in some light directional hand Signals for better retrieving. Living in Texas, all early season dove hunts should take place near water to keep your dog cooled down and also cuz that is where the birds are at in the evening anyway. Force fetch if done right will give your dog proper ecollar acclimation. Without proper acclimation to the ecollar (for both dog and trainer) the ecollar can be bad but with proper use it is a phenomenal tool. i suggest getting involved with like minded hunters. Clubs are the easiest way to do this. I like the lone star NAVHDA since they train for all the stuff you mention plus waterfowl and meet in nearby Caldwell.
_________________________
Heath

Top
#6353578 - 06/30/16 04:07 PM Re: Pointer Training Advice Needed... [Re: Zeiger]
Zeiger Offline
Light Foot

Registered: 06/14/16
Posts: 15
Loc: Georgetown, Texas
Thanks Houghtonic! The trainer he just got back from used the ecollar on him so he is used to it. I just need to go buy one (trying to decide which one to buy for training and upland bird hunting). The trainer advised waiting a while if I decided to force fetch train him....I am not clear on why I would need to wait but, again, I will defer to someone who knows more than me! Zeiger has not been taught to sit yet. He will naturally come sit by me but I have not trained the sit command. I was told, with a pointer, not to work sit until he has a lot of time on point - so that his default is point not sit.....?? He is a great dog and super smart - I just want to make sure I don't screw him up! Ill check out that youtube series.

Any input on where to buy birds for training?

Top
#6353844 - 06/30/16 07:20 PM Re: Pointer Training Advice Needed... [Re: Zeiger]
bill oxner Offline
THF Celebrity

Registered: 11/03/09
Posts: 32683
Loc: Richmond
FF is the last thing I teach a pointing dog. I don't do it at all if its not needed. I never teach a pointing dog to sit. The best three things you can teach a pointing dog is whoa, whoa, and whoa.
_________________________
Quail hunting is like walking into, and out of a beautiful painting all day long. Gene Hill




Top
#6353866 - 06/30/16 07:32 PM Re: Pointer Training Advice Needed... [Re: Zeiger]
blanked Offline
Pro Tracker

Registered: 06/03/07
Posts: 1302
Loc: magnolia tx
I say forget about the dove. At least for a few years. Any good upland pointer isn't going to sit still at heal while your shooting doves

Top
#6353952 - 06/30/16 08:16 PM Re: Pointer Training Advice Needed... [Re: Zeiger]
Zeiger Offline
Light Foot

Registered: 06/14/16
Posts: 15
Loc: Georgetown, Texas
Thanks Bill. He is doing great with woah and I will keep working with him on it. I have some good video of him holding woah at the trainer last Friday when I picked him up. One of the coolest things I've seen!

Blanked - that's what I'm afraid of. I have a place to shoot dove right by my house. I am still looking for a place to hunt quail but definitely plan on getting him out there. I'm thinking, if I take him out in the dove field, he will be running around and maybe getting birds when I shoot them - but not sitting by my side....!

Top
#6354009 - 06/30/16 09:12 PM Re: Pointer Training Advice Needed... [Re: Zeiger]
dune2218 Offline
Woodsman

Registered: 02/09/16
Posts: 246
Loc: Temple, tx
Bill is correct ------- whoa and come to the whistle----- out of 30 or so dogs I have also never taught one to sit, or heel. - you said " . He is currently trained to whoa, here, load up, finds and points birds, retrieves downed birds.."" YOur trainer taught him to retrieve, but he doesn't bring them back to you??
_________________________
Donald ------ the only real/knowledgeable bird/duck hunter on this site.

Top
#6354057 - 06/30/16 09:46 PM Re: Pointer Training Advice Needed... [Re: Zeiger]
Zeiger Offline
Light Foot

Registered: 06/14/16
Posts: 15
Loc: Georgetown, Texas
He didn't bring one bird all the way back when the trainer was showing me what he can do. Trainer said Zeiger normally brings them all the way back but not always.....that's gotta be fixed! I've never dealt with a trainer before - seems like a good guy that knows what he's doing but I was surprised Zeiger doesn't bring birds back ALL the time...

Top
#6354089 - 06/30/16 10:09 PM Re: Pointer Training Advice Needed... [Re: Zeiger]
Nogalus Prairie Online   content
THF Celebrity

Registered: 11/22/10
Posts: 19296
Loc: Corsicana
Hunt them. Hunt them some more. Whoa and praise when they do what you want.

I really don't know anything much - just that this is what worked for me. A good GSP will have it in them naturally. Since mine knew more than me, I just let her hunt and tried not to mess her up.

Good luck.
_________________________
Originally Posted By: REALKILLER
That's the way I hunt don't know many that do. If a deer gets buy me I will try to run him down. Ive killed a bunch that way.



Top
#6354145 - 06/30/16 11:05 PM Re: Pointer Training Advice Needed... [Re: Zeiger]
Houghtonic Offline
Light Foot

Registered: 03/14/14
Posts: 20
Loc: Central Texas
I'll defer to the other guys on this forum that have more experience than me but I have a GSP that didn't have a strong retrieve desire and force fetch has really cleaned up her retrieves and in training sessions has made up for her lack of retrieving desire. Not bringing birds or objects all the way back is why I brought up force fetch as something you could do with your dog. If it were me I'd definitely get connected with the dog and learn more about where he is with you in his training before deciding what any next training to pursue. If you want him to be a good upland pointer then I'd concentrate on that first. To do any good pointing training requires birds. You can buy quail but I'd recommend building a small pigeon coupe and raising homing pigeons. Especially if your training area is close to your house because then you can keep reusing the pigeons and get more training in. Otherwise you can always buy quail from local reserves or search craigslist etc.

Some guys that focus mainly on quail or other upland pointing definitely don't teach sit. I haven't had an issue with it but can see where others avoid teaching it to a pure upland pointing dog. I want and expect my versatile dog to be able to stay in the duck blind and hunt quail and retrieve dove. Sometimes that is searching and pointing birds and other times that means to remain still until needed for a retrieve. If I didn't enjoy waterfowl as much as I do I'd have concentrated more on pointing and steady to wing shot or fall than on also training things needed for waterfowl. I think the best advice is find some mentors that hunt with their dogs the way you want to hunt with yours and learn as much as you can from them.


Edited by Houghtonic (06/30/16 11:08 PM)
_________________________
Heath

Top
#6355603 - 07/02/16 11:23 AM Re: Pointer Training Advice Needed... [Re: Zeiger]
Mundo Offline
Woodsman

Registered: 02/03/15
Posts: 117
If you dove hunt this dog be sure to take a plastic tub (like the ones they sell at Tractor Supply) that you can fill with water, maybe even ice. Lots of heat stroke when dove hunting --if the dog can cool their feet and chest by getting in the tub they will be more comfortable and less susceptible to heat stroke or exhaustion.

Force fetching is almost always done off season because some dogs won't point well being force fetched.

I would talk to your trainer about what methods he used to train your dog. Especially for whoa. All trainer trained dogs have a tendency to lapse over time. If you know how the trainer got the dog to where he is, you can go back to the method and reinforce it. (For instance if he was trained on a whoa post and collar on the flank, you can go back to the collar on the flank if he gets sloppy on the who command.

The garmin 550 is the best training collar on the market because you can use a very low level constant stimulation rather than I higher nick. Pricy but worth the money. The garmin Alpha has the same features as the 550 but is more difficult to use because you have to move thru screens and presets. So, I would recommend the Garmin 550 as training collar. You also need to talk to your trainer about how he used the collar and what levels he used. For example, I whoa train with a 550 at constant level 1 low, level 1 medium and level 1 high. You would want put a dog trained at those levels at higher levels unless they aren't responding. It is important to remember that the collar is more of fa communication device than a discipline device. Low level stimulation causes no pain so you can use it to communicate the dog. The Huntsmith guys (Rick and Ron Smith) whoa their dogs with a low stimulation from collar and often don't use verbal commands until later.

Top
#6355607 - 07/02/16 11:29 AM Re: Pointer Training Advice Needed... [Re: Zeiger]
Mundo Offline
Woodsman

Registered: 02/03/15
Posts: 117
Originally Posted By: Zeiger
He didn't bring one bird all the way back when the trainer was showing me what he can do. Trainer said Zeiger normally brings them all the way back but not always.....that's gotta be fixed! I've never dealt with a trainer before - seems like a good guy that knows what he's doing but I was surprised Zeiger doesn't bring birds back ALL the time...


If he drops the bird on a recall, don't raise your voice, make him leave the bird and come all the way to him. Then, send him back for the bird. He needs to learn that it is less work to complete the retrieve the right way.

Top
#6355769 - 07/02/16 02:45 PM Re: Pointer Training Advice Needed... [Re: Zeiger]
DuckedUp Offline
Tracker

Registered: 12/16/10
Posts: 560
Conditioned hold or retrieve is the way to go. If you can get ahold of the Fowl Dogz first video, it will walk you step by step through the process and it doesn't require anything but a FF buck, a hard bumper, that you can buy for $20 from Gun dog supplies website. The video is geared towards retrievers and upland retrievers, but his method is well worth the money for the video. It's an easy process to teach and there is a lot less pressure involved than some of the other methods. His videos are all using dogs that he is in the process of training so you'll get to see how a dog will typically react and how to deal with it. The trainer that made the video will also answer any emails or take phone calls to help you out if you hit a snag in the process.

Top
#6356191 - 07/02/16 09:21 PM Re: Pointer Training Advice Needed... [Re: Mundo]
Nogalus Prairie Online   content
THF Celebrity

Registered: 11/22/10
Posts: 19296
Loc: Corsicana
Originally Posted By: Mundo
Originally Posted By: Zeiger
He didn't bring one bird all the way back when the trainer was showing me what he can do. Trainer said Zeiger normally brings them all the way back but not always.....that's gotta be fixed! I've never dealt with a trainer before - seems like a good guy that knows what he's doing but I was surprised Zeiger doesn't bring birds back ALL the time...


If he drops the bird on a recall, don't raise your voice, make him leave the bird and come all the way to him. Then, send him back for the bird. He needs to learn that it is less work to complete the retrieve the right way.


That sounds like a really good answer right there. Makes sense.
_________________________
Originally Posted By: REALKILLER
That's the way I hunt don't know many that do. If a deer gets buy me I will try to run him down. Ive killed a bunch that way.



Top



© 2004-2016 OUTDOOR SITES NETWORK all rights reserved USA and Worldwide