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#6349655 - 06/27/16 05:12 PM 140 grain 6.5mm A-max bullet being slowly fazed out to new ELD-M, and about tips deforming!
ChadTRG42 Offline
THF Trophy Hunter

Registered: 09/16/09
Posts: 9433
Loc: Lewisville, TX
I spoke to a supplier this morning, and confirmed the 140 A-max is beginning to be fazed out. I also put in a call to Hornady to discuss this in depth, along with other items. The bullet replacing the 140 A-max will be the newer 6.5mm, 140 grain ELD-M match bullet. The 140 A-max is identical to the 140 ELD-M, except for the new tip design (the nose profile changed very slightly for this new tip, but in all aspects, it's the same bullet). This ELD-M match bullet has the new heat shield polymer tip. I am currently out of stock on the 140 A-max, but with plenty of the newer 6.5mm 140 grain ELD-M bullets.

And about the tips deforming! When speaking to Hornady in detail about this, the bullets they saw the tips deforming were on bullets with a BC greater than about .550 (G1 BC). These higher BC bullets retained more velocity down range, therefore increased the tip temperature during the longer flight times. This is what caused the tip deformation. When they began to noticed trajectory differences was AFTER about 600 yards on some higher BC bullets. Some did not show a trajectory difference until AFTER 800 yards!!!

Take a 308 Winchester shooting a 168 A-max bullet (Litz G1 BC = .451) at 2650 fps. The G1 BC is well below the .550 threshold Hornady claimed. Also, the launch speed is 2650 fps. At this speed, the round does not enter the transonic region of flight until right at 800 yards. With this combination of low BC, slow launch speed, and only effective to about 800 yards, there is no chance of tip deformation on a 168 A-max launched out of a 308 Win at 2650 fps. Even in a 300 WM launched at a higher speed, the BC is low enough to slow the bullet down to not allow the tip to deform due to heat build up.

I have heard shooters say that they will not shoot any polymer tipped bullets because they melt. Most shooters will not shoot beyond the distances that these tips melt anyway. And most of your polymer tipped bullets do not have a high enough BC for them to deform.

As a shooter, most of the time it is false reasoning to say I won't shoot a plastic tip because they melt. So, I take a deep breath and start a 5 minute discussion with them about it.
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#6349693 - 06/27/16 05:41 PM Re: 140 grain 6.5mm A-max bullet being slowly fazed out to new ELD-M, and about tips deforming! [Re: ChadTRG42]
Texan Til I Die Offline
Pro Tracker

Registered: 08/18/09
Posts: 1760
Loc: Central Texas
Glad the 308 168 A-max is sticking around. My load using that bullet is coming along nicely. This is 5 shots at 100 yards and the bull is 1/2 inch.

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#6349776 - 06/27/16 06:35 PM Re: 140 grain 6.5mm A-max bullet being slowly fazed out to new ELD-M, and about tips deforming! [Re: ChadTRG42]
FiremanJG Offline
THF Celebrity

Registered: 12/16/08
Posts: 17893
Loc: Wolfe City, TX
140 gr 6.5 mm A-Max has a G-1 of .585, so it falls in that category.
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#6349870 - 06/27/16 07:53 PM Re: 140 grain 6.5mm A-max bullet being slowly fazed out to new ELD-M, and about tips deforming! [Re: ChadTRG42]
DStroud Offline
Pro Tracker

Registered: 11/02/11
Posts: 1160
Loc: Waco
And the new Hornady 140gr ELD-M has a G-1 of .631 pretty good improvement.

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#6349888 - 06/27/16 08:11 PM Re: 140 grain 6.5mm A-max bullet being slowly fazed out to new ELD-M, and about tips deforming! [Re: ChadTRG42]
Big Fitz Offline
Veteran Tracker

Registered: 12/06/09
Posts: 2008
Loc: McKinney, TX
I've got a 1000+ 140 A-Max if someone is interested. I've gone with the Berger 130 Hybrid.
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#6350323 - 06/28/16 09:07 AM Re: 140 grain 6.5mm A-max bullet being slowly fazed out to new ELD-M, and about tips deforming! [Re: ChadTRG42]
dee Offline
Extreme Tracker

Registered: 04/10/10
Posts: 4665
Loc: Red River way
I've only personally messed with the 162gr ELD match vs the Amax. There are some slight modifications and so far the B.C. is flat solid. Worked very well in testing so far. The Amax had a higher B.C. than I used.

Not to take away from this Tubb was said to experimented with polymer tips and had similar experiences. His new DTAC is a very interesting critter with a slight different ogive and a rebated boattail and the B.C. is plus .6 on a 6mm which could be a game changer if supply will keep up with the demand.
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#6350473 - 06/28/16 11:20 AM Re: 140 grain 6.5mm A-max bullet being slowly fazed out to new ELD-M, and about tips deforming! [Re: ChadTRG42]
NTRP Offline


Registered: 02/06/09
Posts: 1421
Loc: McKinney, TX By God!
I have regularly shot the old style 140 Amax out to 1350 yards. Hitting a 20" plate in succession never made me have to stop and ponder if something was wrong. I guess YMMV. I've only got a few hundred of them left so transitioning to the new and higher BC ELD's is a no-brainer. I wouldn't hesitate to continue using them if the new ELD wasn't an option. The 155gr Amax in .30 cal is still my favorite hunting/accuracy combo when using a .308.


Edited by NTRP (06/28/16 11:23 AM)
Edit Reason: My Macbook tries to auto-correct to make me look smart, but makes me look illiterate.
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#6350771 - 06/28/16 04:04 PM Re: 140 grain 6.5mm A-max bullet being slowly fazed out to new ELD-M, and about tips deforming! [Re: NTRP]
FiremanJG Offline
THF Celebrity

Registered: 12/16/08
Posts: 17893
Loc: Wolfe City, TX
Jay, you ever tried the 155 gr Sierra TMK? I'm really impressed with it.

I don't know how many 140 A-maxes I'm still sitting on. I've gathered them for years trying to get ahead of the panics that happen. I'm not about to get rid of them, only to scramble to get the new ELD-M bullets. They've worked well for all this time, I'll just shoot them up, then move to the ELD, or Berger VLD.
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#6350838 - 06/28/16 05:00 PM Re: 140 grain 6.5mm A-max bullet being slowly fazed out to new ELD-M, and about tips deforming! [Re: ChadTRG42]
NTRP Offline


Registered: 02/06/09
Posts: 1421
Loc: McKinney, TX By God!
No Jason, I haven't. I have heard really good things about them. I taught a reloading class recently with 175gr TMK's and they shot really well in the client's rifle. Like you, my stockpiles are besoming obsolete ha ha
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#6351065 - 06/28/16 09:05 PM Re: 140 grain 6.5mm A-max bullet being slowly fazed out to new ELD-M, and about tips deforming! [Re: ChadTRG42]
jeepercreeper Online   content
Extreme Tracker

Registered: 11/07/10
Posts: 3647
Loc: DFW
My gun is shooting 120gr Amax really well. Are those being phased out as well?

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#6351129 - 06/28/16 10:07 PM Re: 140 grain 6.5mm A-max bullet being slowly fazed out to new ELD-M, and about tips deforming! [Re: ChadTRG42]
NTRP Offline


Registered: 02/06/09
Posts: 1421
Loc: McKinney, TX By God!
I think the plan is to replace them all with the ELD. All things considered, the loads shoot the same but the BC is higher so it's a win-win.
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#6351230 - 06/29/16 06:25 AM Re: 140 grain 6.5mm A-max bullet being slowly fazed out to new ELD-M, and about tips deforming! [Re: NTRP]
dee Offline
Extreme Tracker

Registered: 04/10/10
Posts: 4665
Loc: Red River way
Originally Posted By: NTRP
No Jason, I haven't. I have heard really good things about them. I taught a reloading class recently with 175gr TMK's and they shot really well in the client's rifle. Like you, my stockpiles are besoming obsolete ha ha


There's been a guy running them (175 tmk) in TxPRC with really good results. I figure the 155 and some speed would be pretty tough for the 308.
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#6352106 - 06/29/16 04:43 PM Re: 140 grain 6.5mm A-max bullet being slowly fazed out to new ELD-M, and about tips deforming! [Re: ChadTRG42]
Buzzsaw Offline
THF Trophy Hunter

Registered: 06/29/11
Posts: 5023
Loc: Frisco, Texas
saw a bunch of 120 AMAX at Academy
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#6352204 - 06/29/16 05:51 PM Re: 140 grain 6.5mm A-max bullet being slowly fazed out to new ELD-M, and about tips deforming! [Re: dee]
FiremanJG Offline
THF Celebrity

Registered: 12/16/08
Posts: 17893
Loc: Wolfe City, TX
Originally Posted By: dee
Originally Posted By: NTRP
No Jason, I haven't. I have heard really good things about them. I taught a reloading class recently with 175gr TMK's and they shot really well in the client's rifle. Like you, my stockpiles are besoming obsolete ha ha


There's been a guy running them (175 tmk) in TxPRC with really good results. I figure the 155 and some speed would be pretty tough for the 308.


I'm running them in a 16" LR 308 @ 2600 MV. I would really like to see how fast they could go, with a consistent shooting load, in a 24" bolt action.
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#6352231 - 06/29/16 06:15 PM Re: 140 grain 6.5mm A-max bullet being slowly fazed out to new ELD-M, and about tips deforming! [Re: ChadTRG42]
dee Offline
Extreme Tracker

Registered: 04/10/10
Posts: 4665
Loc: Red River way
I'm thinking the 155 would be tough if they could reach the 2850-2900fps area.
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