That's the same as asking how did it show up in West Texas? How did it show up in Colorado?

Both free range cervid populations.

I guess calling them out on BS is bashing? I'm fine with that. I hadn't said a bad word about TDA until this went down. TDA seems to want to hold TPWD accountable but I haven't seen TDA being held accountable by very many. Its more of a shut your mouth and get in line type organization.

Did you have anything to add to the post or just calling me a "basher" ?

The rallying cry for TDA has been about how much they are standing up for private property owners, etc, etc ,etc. I cant believe more of you guys haven't sent your $$$ in.

I realize that I know "Squat" because I have been told that a few times on here. What I think is that TPWS has themselves backed into a corner. They are the ones that started making "Captive Breeding" legal. Many people with money and the ear of those in Austin got it started. Now that they have this problem on their hands they have no freeking idea how to solve it without pissing off somebody.

Yep right on.

I asked a simple question why you keep bashing them. Your answer is calling them out on BS. Specifically what BS?

Why shouldn't TPWD be held accountable for their actions?

txbobcat is not interested in providing facts or data....he is too busy sticking it to those "evil deer breeders".

Why exactly do people breed deer?

Would love to hear this explained.

Why do people raise cattle? Same reason I would imagine.

As a scientist with over 30 years of research experience I can tell you that there is very little valid science driving the response from tpwd.

Whatever their agenda is, it isn't applying anything resembling science.

Pretty solid proof in the statement that they're gonna let public response determine their protocol.

[/quote]

You can see that opinion on this forum.... Anti's and haters have done a great job confusing facts with fiction....

Most of the general public don't know CWD got here via free range animals, most are oblivious to the west Texas herd and soon to be panhandle herd. Nor do most know CWD was first observed in wild deer.

What do you do.... In the end more division and loss of rights. HSUS is smiling. There are those amoung us that would lay down thier rights for misplaced ideologies [/quote]


So how did it show up inside of a breeder's pen in white-tailed deer in Medina County, which is 100's of miles from the West Texas mule deer cases?

[/quote]


Would love to hear this explained. [/quote]

No one knows for sure. Tpwd kills everything before it can be researched. Iirc they found it in a 2 year old buck that broke it's neck running into a gate. I believe it's mom was tested positive and it's half brother from AI did too (but that half brothers mom was negative). Indicating to me that it it's likely spread through semen as well as saliva. That's never been proven, and if it was it would devastate the semen straw industry (because of irrational panic).

It's also feasible that it's been here along.

The good news is that CWD's a very slow acting pathogen that kills deer slower than their average life span. Therefore it will never ever have a significant impact on wild populations.

Sure must be a big market for venison.

The next meeting of the Commission will be a "special meeting" held in Austin.

Below are the "proposed" rules that will be adopted as it relates to CWD and breeders, TTT, TTP, DMP and release sites. Long read for those interested.

http://tpwd.texas.gov/business/feedback/meetings/2016/0620/agenda/item_04/index.phtml

Because they can legally do so?

Yes, there is. As you know.

A lot more profitable than old skinny cows.

And FYI, I went to the meeting in Ingram with TPWD and TAHC reps.

Without a doubt, the reason they've "postponed" the rule change is because they've bitten off WAY WAY more than their combined budgets can fund.

TAHC flat out admitted that they are totally out of money (under the old less extensive protocol). They live in a more realistic world than TPWD does.

If you look at the proposal it would become a multi million dollar hole for state funds.

And though neither will admit it, all know it would do nothing toward curbing or understanding CWD.

John Q Public shares a large part of the blame for this. Because when Mr. Public panics over things he doesn't understand or care to educate himself on, state agencies act. When BS is your motivator, BS is gonna be your product.

How did it end up in free range west Texas 1000's of miles from Ground Zero Colorado.... A spot where there are no breeders or HF?

Mule deer and elk are migratory, so a contagious disease can move like the ebb and flow of a tide. Also, there is some potential that hunters moving around the country may be moving it with them on contaminated footwear, clothing and equipment, as well as captive animals and livestock being moved.

The risk of spreading disease through movement is why there are best practices in dealing with movement of livestock. The last time I came back into the country (was in Brazil checking some grant requests in remote areas), I was diverted to the USDA inspectors. All they wanted was to clean and decontaminate my footwear and the outside of my bags. They were nice about and explained the risk of lots of diseases being moved with dirt particles sticking to boots.

After that, I clean my boots thoroughly and then spray the soles of my boots with Clorox after going out of state hunting.

So, those are just a few thoughts. What do you think?

Southern NM is not migratory in fact vast majority of NM doesn't have a migratory herd. I don't consider natural dispersal migratory, Nor do scientists.

If you want transportation restriction then you need to restrict all hay and grain along with all bone and brain matter.

Movement to and fro, however you wish to classify it, is the issue. They move with seasons, rut, and young males moving. As mentioned, humans may be carrying contamination with them from one spot to another.

There may more regulation in the future. With TDA complaining so loudly about TPWD, it would not be surprising to see high fence operations placed into the regulatory jurisdiction and framework that exists for livestock.

How and why do you think it is spreading?

Breeders have been under TAHC for along time already that's same of live stock. One of the reason's TWPD has been under fire some much. Same reason congress had to step in.

Normal dispersal is not the same as migratory. If you think southern NM has large migratory herds I don't know what to tell you. If they did then ALL of NM should be under CWD quarantine and should have the same quarantine restriction they have in thier CWD units. I suggest you contract thier wildlife department for why all units aren't under those restrictions


Again if you want transportation restrictions please push for hay and grain to be regulated along with bone and brain material, the current know carriers venues. You are only focused on breeders why not hay, grain, bone and brain matter?

Bobo,

You are misreading my posts. I am not focused only on breeders and have not said that. I did not say I wanted more regulation. As I have said before, watch out what you ask for, pounding on the table and demanding attention will draw it, and bring more regulation down the road even though that was not the intention. I am not advocating for or against it. Just commenting from the sideline as an observer. I am not necessarily against high fence operations, and you can go back through all of my old posts to check, but they way some are acting, they are their own worst enemy.

As for "movement," you are misreading that too narrowly to mean only humans moving animals. I said human movement between areas, that is humans moving themselves between areas, may have a role too, potentially more than even movement of animals. Human movement is completely separate from humans moving animals between areas. Most likely there is not a single cause, but multiple independent causes. Again, as just one possible example of human movement spreading disease which I already gave but will do so again, hunters who hunt in a contaminated area may have contamination on their shoes, clothes, ATV's, trucks, and trailers. Then when the hunter goes somewhere else to hunt, they then carry that contamination to a previously uninfected area. That has zero to do with high fence, low fence, or no fence, or moving animals. The human is carrying the contamination.

As for movement, you again are reading it too narrowly - the issue is contamination being spread with movement of animals in their normal patterns of movement, whatever is the reason for the movement. They move for a variety of reasons.

The Rocky Mountain subspecies do move with the seasons, the Desert Mule Deer, not so much. New Mexico has both. "During winter, deer
that use higher elevations usually migrate to lower elevations where food is more easily obtainable and deep snow does not limit their movements."

http://aces.nmsu.edu/pubs/_l/L301.pdf

The key is the contamination moving with the animal, whatever the reason. As an example, a male moves with the rut. Say it is only 5 miles, that potentially moves the disease that 5 miles further down the road. Number 1 moves it down the road to number 2, who moves it down the road to number 3...... That happens with all kinds of diseases in animals and humans. Another possible cause could be that some livestock are vectors carrying the disease, but they are not susceptible to it. Just tossing as an example, what if it is carried by sheep on their hair, but they are not susceptible. What if it is carried by coyotes from eating contaminated carcasses? Maybe it is airborne and carried with dust in the wind? Likely, there are multiple factors at work.


What needs some explanation is how CWD has occurred in discrete areas which are separated by hundreds of miles.

If all of a sudden TPWS said that every deer killed be it LF or HF is now going to be tested it would be interesting to see the results.

Jeff, if testing was done on every deer or elk killed. That map would be much more covered, and most likely a bid part of Texas

Most of those hot spots where found because someone observed something then it was tested, then they implemented more testing.

Kansas and Arkansas for the most part got hits via random testing.

Moral of the story more you test for it the more you will find it

I have a feeling that will never happen. Same reason CO doesn't do it.

What's the point really. It's a cost factor that in 50 years of observed CWD has changed anything.

there are elk that are already showing resistance to CWD, there will be mule deer and whitetails to follow, I'm sure

Agreed.

Just received notice of the next public hearing.

Special Commission Meeting — Chronic Wasting Disease

Time and Date: 9 a.m. Monday, June 20, 2016
Location: Austin — J.J. Pickle Research Campus, Commons Learning Center — Directions


Agenda

Rules of Conduct