Caught this one last fall. It was fast but wouldn't leave the bushes under the tree. Finally able to lift it with a limb and grab him. Little mad at first but calmed down real fast. I like having these around.

Beautiful little snake....

You know this is a hunting forum right? It's where people discuss going hunting. I suspect you're a snake hugger anti-hunter who is hiding your true intentions through what you describe as education. One post about hunting white listed hot snakes and you lose your composure and lash out. We will see how you work out on here but I suspect you have already lost some credibility. I would love for you to prove me wrong btw...but I bet I'm not.

I only kill snakes to eat them. I like having them around, but rattlesnakes are just too tasty to pass up.

Yes, pretty much everyone knows we have rattlesnakes, but most have no idea how many subspecies.

It's understandable I suppose, Texas being such a large State with diverse terrain, habitat and temperatures. Easy for subspecies to exist. Not so easy for everyone to keep up.

IIRC....only Arizona has more subspecies of rattlers.




Agreed. Rattlesnakes are much easier to get along with.

Once, a rattlesnake bit me. After five days of excruciating pain, the snake finally died.

I am the Most Interesting Man in the World.

I wake up each morning looking forward to proving others wrong. Or I'll go about my day not wasting my time with the opinions of sheep.
If you'd prefer to follow the "we ain't gonna listen" crowd, then I won't waste my breath on the ways we've learned to speed treatment and effectiveness after bites. Don't read my posts. Don't look at my pictures. I can assure you, you affect me little. Glad I was able to get your conspiracy thinking mind going, "those dang tree huggers have invaded ma forum"
It's truly sad to watch, I have to defend myself on here more than I can share anything of use, all because I stated my credentials and then offered my help. Guess I'll just go #¥<+ myself.

Very cool. I'm looking forward To getting some photos up, just having some problems loading to the Bucket.

Agreed. Mmmmmmmm

Welcome, TSS. Since you're here to help, please provide protocol for in-field treatment of a venomous snakebite. I'm most interested in the Western Diamondback, as they are the specie I most frequently come in contact with. There is so much information (and misinformation) out there on treatment of snakebite, I'd like to hear your best practices.

I know not to cut the wound nor attempt to extract the venom. I know not to use a tight fitting tourniquet above the wound. I do know to gently wash the affected area and get to medical care ASAP. I also know to stay calm. Not sure if wound should be above or beneath the heart (when possible) during transport to hospital. I've also read that two Zantac and one Benadryl every 30 minutes until reaching medical help can help to slow the reaction to venom, but don't know if that's accurate or not.

Please tell us the proper way to handle the situation after being bitten. I know envenomation or not won't be known for certain until some time has passed, but I'm getting to the hospital as safely, carefully and fast as I can.

What should my snakebite kit contain?

Thanks in advance.

A little 10 inch snake (grass snake I suppose) came out of the grass while I was edging with my weedeater yesterday. I proceeded to chop his arse up with the weedeater and in doing so it flung the snake at my flipflop wearing feet. Bet I jumped 10 foot in the air like a little sissy

the bleeding leg to go with it

Well.......yeah!

What did you expect? Gotta say...my hat is off to you. Any man that can run down a coachwhip in FLIP-FLOPS has got my respect.

first off, thanks for the question of true relavance and youve defintely doen the majority of what should be done, much more than most.

you are dead on with the benydryl. i keep a sealed bottle in my bag at all times. i have not been told of zantac by the professionals ive consulted, so i cant comment of that, BUT, in saying that, if it stops histamines, its better than nothing. some snake bites that have killed were from "less dangerous" species and were the allergic reaction that took place, which none of us know until it happens. they still wont do a scratch test on me with venom, ridiculous.i keep it sealed so it doesnt get used for other purposes, it wont help stoip the tissue damage, but it can keep you alive till you can get help. it can also be used on dogs, and has been by friends in the field with excellent results. the biology of dogs leads to other issues, but thats for another time. you NEED to inform the hospital staff that youve taken it, and you dont want to over do it. best "suggestions" ive received from venom docs has been 2 tablespoons and get help.

a snkae bite kit can be misleading. i keep venom protocols for each species from an area im going to, or that are in my collection at the time. that is the accompaning photo. ive misplaced my couple hundred page directory of every species in the world, but when i get it, ill figure out a way for anyone to have it for free. the best thing for a snakebite is a cell phone and a set of keys, taught to us at the venomous care and handling conference i attended. bites are hard to accomplish if a photo is taken in advance. that alone can drastically reduce treatment times by allowing us to 100% identify and move forward quickly. ive watched hospital staff argue and debate for over an hour on whether it was a copperhead bite or a cottonomuth bite, never realizing they both take the same treatment. its scary and its not what you want happening when in the scenario.

first rule of first aid is do no harm. the latest information we have from Dr Sean Bush is that extraction devices fond in snakebite kits cause harm. if they dont cause harm, they do nothing and only slow the 10 seconds you could be doing something more productive in getting yourself help. the paper is called "venom extraction devices dont remove venom, they just suck", or something like that. i wont use one on myself, so it may be best no one else does either. venom doesnt work the way we like to think. its not gonna pool where it can be extracted. its a complex cocktail that contains pieces that increase absorbtion. if you try to get it, it wont be there, and opening the wound by cutting only increases the surace area for absorbtion, and you get sticthes also.

cutting should NEVER be an option. its hard to qoute some guy on thf proclaiming to be a specialist, but i will never allow a fasciotomy, when they cut the skin open to relieve the pressure. bites are chemical situations, not surgical. with proper treatment from a toxicologist, swelling can be reduced and controled by their discretion, since they are sorta the doctors.

if youre in the field, WAY away from help, remaing calm is the general opinion. some believe in the sit and wait, or only go far enough to get cell service. some believe in a slow walk. both have positives and negatives, but the best option is still not putting yourself at risk, especially out there. walk away from a snake. simple. it aint gonna get anyone else if you are that far out.

i keep the number for the arizona poison control center in my phone, and i have a list of professionals ill contact in case something happens. after a bite, the hospital that has been made aware of your bite SHOULD contact poison control, but i bellieve in being proactive.

crofab is the go to antivenom in texas. it works but its highly expensive and its only built for certain species. its not believed to be affective on animals such as the northern black tail rattlesnake. they didnt include it in the process. its almost a mexican species that didnt know we made a border. Bioclon has shown to be most effective for most species, but it is still held up in fda testing, though some is available in private hands through much drama. any eveidence that exists, so far, of treatment of some bites that crofab supposedly worked for, like a black tail, may be a situation of a minor bite that would have healed anyways. if youve ever heard of the situation when Bill Haast of the Miami serpentarium was used in a direct tranfusion to save a patient that had been bit, because of haasts antibodies, have been embellished over the years and the man was more likely going to survive at the point haast became involved. these scenarios are common.one gentleman explained to me he lived through a bite because he drank some whiskey and "chewed on it a bit". most likely a dry bite that now becomes a way he thinks he can live. soaking a bite in coca cola is also NOT recommended.

Do not wrap, do not cut, do not suck. do not ice, do not heat, do not apply electric shock (yes, its happened many times), do not raise, do not lower.

remove constrictive jewelery.

the raising and lowering is debated highly, but it usually comes down to if its below the heart, more tissue damage can occur because it stays there and isnt treated by the body. if you raise it, it can shoot it to your system faster, possibly over loading the body and causing death before the body has time to treat it.

im a big believer in over hydration. far from proven, its just somethuing that some believe could be extremely helpful. venom does get washed out of the body, and geeting fluids speeds up that process.

i cant say enough times how important a picture is. DO NOT BRING THE SNAKE TO THE HOSPITAL. it happens all the time. dont get bit, and then attempt to kill the snake. take a picture and get help. minutes matter when it has to do with tissue. i have had patients treated with crofab because they were outdoorsman and swear it was a copperhead that bit em. after i was brought in, the animal was identified as a texas rat snake, probably making it one of the most expensive rat snake bites of all time. the antivenom wont kill em, but its a expensive route to go when unneeded. many people do know their snakes, but a hospiatl staff cannot trust your opinion.

its sad that the main advice is to avoid a bite and any situation that can cause one. If it still happens, do nothing besides get help from a hospital.

there are helicopter services that can be bought like insurance in case anything happens. i never went to far into that. they were expensive as a retainer, though i guess there shouldnt be a cost on a life. ive spent years in the west texas desert and hills, some alone and in very remote areas, usually looking for venomous. I canoed the devils river solo, freaking many out and hearing to be careful of snakes constantly. ive had zero scenarios. they just arent as common as our fears have lead us to believe, and most can be avoided. i do keep venomous for safety trainings, but through years of training and not pushing unsafe scenarios, ive never been tagged. to my knowledge, what has been described to me from trusted source, getting hit by a big Atrox is similar to lighting your hand on fire then trying to put it out with a sledge hammer. i think avoidance of risky scenarios is easy compared to that.

sorry im so long winded

You've pretty much got it. Much would depend on the location of the bite and severity. Also, the type snake...but you mention the Western Diamondback.

If you don't go into Anaphylactic Shock then most bites won't be life threatening, but treatment should always be sought out as quickly as possible. Terrible tissue/nerve damage can occur.

If you have any history of Anaphylaxis I'd sure keep an epi-pen with me.

I believe conventional wisdom is still to keep the affected area below the level of the heart (if possible).

If bitten on a limb...remember to remove rings, watches, footwear, tight fitting clothing right away. Swelling should be gradual...but some folks might be hours away from help/treatment.

i caught it while pulling onto our lease last year, near johnson city. i knew what it was when i ran for it, BUT
i dove after it and shoved my arm into a culvert to pull it out, knowing quite well what else could have been in there. it was one of the dumbest things ive done in regards to snake safety.
The snake was cool, but i was F%$#!^& stupid

It is near impossible to overdose a person on dyphenhydramine, a.k.a. Benadryl. Normal adult dose is 25-50 mg. I've taken 200 mg. in two hours post red wasp sting on my face.

Since infection is a worry, it's not a bad idea to keep alcohol and betadine prep pads in your kit. Apply immediately after the bite, on the site. The alcohol prep may cause pain, but it ain't gonna "hurt". Remember the preps can dry out over time, so replacing them annually is good.

And as is the case with many medical emergencies, one of the best treatments is high flow gasoline or diesel.

I called the nearest hospital to my land to find out if they have anti-venom for pit vipers. The nurse didn't know what that meant, but asked someone that did. Yes they do.

Hopefully the person that get bitten is not the one having to drive to the hospital. Do what Paramedics in the ambulance will do, call the emergency department, tell them you're coming, and give as many vital signs as you can. Respiratory rate, heart rate, blood pressure if possible (I know most don't have the equipment or knowledge), location of the bite, and suspected species. They should ask you your ETA. Absolutely take a picture of the snake if safe to do so.

If I have to drive myself or someone else from a remote location, I'm going to try to get ahold of dispatch, as well. I'm going to let them know my route, truck description, and that my hazards will be on. Because I'd rather not be pulling over for law enforcement, getting me speeding a bit.

Thank you both TSS and flintknapper. TSS, by snakebite kit I meant nothing more than an antiseptic, water and a clean, soft cloth to wipe the wound + antihistamines. You and flintknapper answered all my questions. By the way, Zantac is for indigestion but is also an excellent antihistamine. Used in combination with Benadryl, it's been shown to retard reaction to the histamines. Think I'll keep both in my kit.

As for dogs, you can give them twice the adult dose of Benadryl. My black lab has been through "de-snaking" with Diamondbacks, cottonmouths and copperheads. She also gets the rattlesnake vaccine in yearly intervals. The vaccine won't save her but, if she survives, it will (hopefully) reduce morbidity by up to 50%. For her to get bitten is going to have to be an accident of her running over and stepping on one. She's been back for tune ups twice and you can't get her within 50 feet of any of those three species before she's hauling tail the other way

I've never had an Anaphylactic episode, but do have bad allergies. Every time I get stung by a bee the reaction is more severe than the previous sting. As a result, I carry two epi pens with me at all times.

Thanks again for both of your inputs.

fouz

ive been told the dog vaccines are basically anecdotal, so i dont comment most times on it, i dont know enough or have facts, but its been said most dogs bit will be fine anyways, and that there isnt strong evidence on when it wears off, leaving it to vets to make a buck by over dosing. i dont know and im not judgeing. just stating what ive heard when asked.

im a huge believer in snake avoidance training. that IS afective.

ive had a hell of a time getting an epi-pen by being honest. so ive been told to lie and say im allergic to bees. the docs hesitate to give me one because i may possibly be allegic to copperheads. ive explaing that just by cleanig venomous cages for years, i can build a sensitivity, not an immunity, and id like to be preapred, they never seem to care and call me weird : )

i cant see why zantac could hurt, so after i ask a few others if there is ANYTHING that could cause a prblem, i think ill be adding it to my stuff. ive alwasy been cautioned about over doing it on the benydryl, not for overdosing aspects, but for it capability of masking symtoms of the bite when docs get involved.

i guess all these things matter, but are wonderfully over precautious in case of a bite. i wish i could send more people to snake avoidance training as many as send their dogs : )

Trust me, I avoid them as best I can. 17" all leather snake boots, jeans, long sleeves and never stick my hand where I can't see. I also try not to step over things, but that's kind of hard in the South Texas Brush country. Thanks again for taking the time to answer my questions.

If I am bitten at the lease I am driving to Whichita Falls 50 miles away. I googled snake bites in my county and low and behold they take people to the closest med center where they have no anti-venom so hours are wasted getting them to the right place. WF is closest one with anti venom.

My buddies dad was working on a fence or something and felt something hit him in the calf. He turned around and saw a diamond back leaving. He went to Clifton med clinic and young doc said prob a dry bite since there was no reaction. He went home to Dallas and woke up middle of night in extreme paid. Called his doc friend who said get to hospital asap. Luckily he didn't lose his lag but put him down for 3 months. My uncle got bit reaching into a haystack to get a shovel and bam. He has a 15 inch scar from the incision where they had to drain his arm and spent a week in hospital. Buddy on my lease got bit by a copperhead on his hand at his house in McKinney pulling weeds. Another one walked to his car in flip flops at night and copperhead got him.

If I am in camp and I see 4 copperheads coming out from under where I sleep in 10 minutes I am not just going to relocate them. I got kids walking around. I wear snakeboots at all times no matter what temp it is.

Other than calling every hospital, how do you find out which hospitals have antivenom? The hospital in Childress is the closest to me (40 miles) when I'm at my Hall County ranchito, and I think Amarillo is next (80 miles), but in the opposite direction. We definitely don't want to waste time heading to the wrong hospital.

Perhaps a stupid question:

If one chooses to dispatch a venomous snake with a firearm, is there any danger in shooting the snake in the head (other than the risk of ricochet)? I've heard that it can somehow make the venom airborne and breathe-able and thus a danger to anyone close to the snake and that the safer placement is mid-body. While this seems possible to me, it also seems unlikely and that many people would run into trouble because most aim for the head.

Me too! When my wife's yankee reletives come to visit, they always want be to cook up a batch of rattlesnake chili. Other than that, we just avoid each other. Both the rattlesnakes and the inlaws.