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1/2 moa accuracy guarantee my a$$!
#6288004
05/05/16 02:24 PM
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Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 18,935
ChadTRG42
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I'm so tired of a rifle company or gunsmith marketing their "custom" rifles as a 1/2 moa guarantee!! I have shot 2 rifles this week that come from 2 different "custom" rifle companies that claim 1/2 moa guarantee, but neither company shot the rifle after completion or provide a target that proves this 1/2 MOA claim. One rifle is an $8K set up and the other a $4K set-up, and I'm getting 3-4 moa groups at 200 yards with it, and groups are stringing diagonally really bad, and throwing shots. Ammo is running sub 20 fps ES on all groups tested, and some in the 9 fps ES.
From their website- "The ....... comes with a 1/2-inch group guarantee as do all ....... rifles but does not come with the certified target. Certifying the accuracy is left up to the shooter."
Seriously!
If a company "claims" 1/2 moa guarantee, but does not shoot the rifle after completion, or does not provide you with a target, that should raise some red flags!!! I'm tired of going to the gun range to dial these "custom" rifles in with a custom load, and it shoots worse than a decent factory rifle! They market some new method of bedless recoil method with a system that doesn't work. Rant off!
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Re: 1/2 moa accuracy guarantee my a$$!
[Re: ChadTRG42]
#6288013
05/05/16 02:30 PM
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Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 39,534
redchevy
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Sounds like someone needs to exercise the guarantee and get it right or get their green back.
It's hell eatin em live
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Re: 1/2 moa accuracy guarantee my a$$!
[Re: ChadTRG42]
#6288033
05/05/16 02:42 PM
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Joined: Aug 2012
Posts: 603
Dien
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Maybe its the indian not the arrow/bow But every company makes a lemon and for you not to tell who, well...
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Re: 1/2 moa accuracy guarantee my a$$!
[Re: ChadTRG42]
#6288037
05/05/16 02:45 PM
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Joined: Mar 2012
Posts: 3,809
Cleric
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That policy is interesting. They guarantee 1/2 Moa, than see its up to shooter. That should make for an easy claim imo.
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Re: 1/2 moa accuracy guarantee my a$$!
[Re: ChadTRG42]
#6288047
05/05/16 02:52 PM
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Joined: May 2009
Posts: 10,425
Ramball36
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Re: 1/2 moa accuracy guarantee my a$$!
[Re: ChadTRG42]
#6288054
05/05/16 02:57 PM
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Joined: Aug 2009
Posts: 22,716
BigPig
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Chad... Were you letting Ramball shoot it? That's 100% the problem
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Re: 1/2 moa accuracy guarantee my a$$!
[Re: Ramball36]
#6288066
05/05/16 03:03 PM
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Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 4,115
BarneyWho
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Re: 1/2 moa accuracy guarantee my a$$!
[Re: ChadTRG42]
#6288069
05/05/16 03:05 PM
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Joined: Jul 2012
Posts: 15,694
603Country
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I'm leery of claims of accuracy, no matter who makes the claim. That said, my 260 Tikka T3 from Chad and my 223 from Horizon both shoot to 1/2 inch. Both those guys delivered very accurate rifles. But I still have to do my part and produce reloads good enough to shoot that well.
Still, if I spent $8000 on a rifle guaranteed to shoot to 1/2 inch, I'm going to want to know what factory load or carefully constructed reload gets me there. And some of that ammo better come with the rifle.
But then I think of a guy I know that just can't shoot worth a darn. Put my 260 in his hands and 1/2 inch groups aren't gonna happen.
Not my monkeys, not my circus...
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Re: 1/2 moa accuracy guarantee my a$$!
[Re: ChadTRG42]
#6288079
05/05/16 03:13 PM
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Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 18,935
ChadTRG42
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What's funny, is one of the companies actually told me it could be the ammo. I paused, and ask where do you want to start with this one.
603Country, I've thought about building a ton of the 6.5 CM rifles to have a good rifle, at a good price, that actually shoots to 1/2 moa or better.
The bottom line is, as a consumer, you have to ask questions, do some research, and make an educated decision.
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Re: 1/2 moa accuracy guarantee my a$$!
[Re: ChadTRG42]
#6288080
05/05/16 03:13 PM
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Joined: Aug 2013
Posts: 2,030
spg
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Had a few come through my dads shop to get custom loads and zeroed that were worse than some semi-customs and factory rifles we have. Burn alot time playing with different bullets, seating depth, powders, etc. Try explaining to a customer the best their gun will shoot is 2MOA after they have spent 5k+ on a rifle with $2500 optics.
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Re: 1/2 moa accuracy guarantee my a$$!
[Re: spg]
#6288081
05/05/16 03:14 PM
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Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 18,935
ChadTRG42
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Try explaining to a customer the best their gun will shoot is 2MOA after they have spent 5k+ on a rifle with $2500 optics. ^^^ Exactly! That conversation is never a good one. I've had several of those conversations recently.
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Re: 1/2 moa accuracy guarantee my a$$!
[Re: ChadTRG42]
#6288089
05/05/16 03:21 PM
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Joined: Aug 2013
Posts: 2,030
spg
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Did you ever have to go through a demonstration using a factory rifle to actually assure them they got screwed?
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Re: 1/2 moa accuracy guarantee my a$$!
[Re: ChadTRG42]
#6288095
05/05/16 03:25 PM
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Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 35,118
Brother in-law
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Some folks didn't do their homework if they paid that much
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Re: 1/2 moa accuracy guarantee my a$$!
[Re: ChadTRG42]
#6288098
05/05/16 03:26 PM
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Joined: Mar 2012
Posts: 3,809
Cleric
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Who was it?
Did they specify what ammo they test with?
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Re: 1/2 moa accuracy guarantee my a$$!
[Re: Cleric]
#6288107
05/05/16 03:32 PM
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Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 18,935
ChadTRG42
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Who was it? Did they specify what ammo they test with? No, they didn't even shoot the rifle!
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Re: 1/2 moa accuracy guarantee my a$$!
[Re: ChadTRG42]
#6288125
05/05/16 03:43 PM
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Joined: Nov 2012
Posts: 15,639
QuitShootinYoungBucks
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I have a goose that lays golden eggs. I've never seen him lay one, you'll have to get him to do it. $50,000 OBO.
https://web.archive.org/web/20170223065011/http:/www.rrdvegas.com/silencer-cleaning.html
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Re: 1/2 moa accuracy guarantee my a$$!
[Re: ChadTRG42]
#6288145
05/05/16 03:52 PM
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Joined: Mar 2012
Posts: 3,809
Cleric
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Who was it? Did they specify what ammo they test with? No, they didn't even shoot the rifle! Now that's irresponsible...
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Re: 1/2 moa accuracy guarantee my a$$!
[Re: ChadTRG42]
#6288153
05/05/16 04:01 PM
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Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 39,534
redchevy
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guar·an·tee /ˌɡerənˈtē/ noun noun: guarantee; plural noun: guarantees; noun: guaranty; plural noun: guaranties
1. a formal promise or assurance (typically in writing) that certain conditions will be fulfilled, especially that a product will be repaired or replaced if not of a specified quality and durability.
Even with great companies and great products there are some lemons that find their way through the cracks. Take it back.
It's hell eatin em live
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Re: 1/2 moa accuracy guarantee my a$$!
[Re: ChadTRG42]
#6288163
05/05/16 04:15 PM
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Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 41,160
J.G.
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It will catch up with them, one day... You want me to shoot it tomorrow?
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Re: 1/2 moa accuracy guarantee my a$$!
[Re: ChadTRG42]
#6288172
05/05/16 04:22 PM
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Joined: Apr 2012
Posts: 390
okierifleman
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I dont even know how someone could come up with a guarantee like that without proving it. Whether or not the customer could do it is a different story altogether. But at the very least, you would know it was capable of it, and provide the factory or hand load info that was used. Without it, you have squat...
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Re: 1/2 moa accuracy guarantee my a$$!
[Re: ChadTRG42]
#6288180
05/05/16 04:30 PM
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Joined: Mar 2011
Posts: 2,101
Colt W. Knight
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If you read the internet, everyone shoots sub moa from their rifles these days. The custom guys have to do better than that. Once the 1/2 moa catches on, the custom guys will have to go to same hole accuracy claims.
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Re: 1/2 moa accuracy guarantee my a$$!
[Re: Cleric]
#6288182
05/05/16 04:33 PM
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Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 9,952
LFD2037
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Who was it?
Did they specify what ammo they test with?
My badazz google-fu says it's made by Fierce Firearms! Yes, I rule.
R.I.P. CPO Matt Mills-(DEVGRU)- You will NEVER be forgotten! 10-25-75 / 8-6-11 *K.I.A.*
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Re: 1/2 moa accuracy guarantee my a$$!
[Re: ChadTRG42]
#6288199
05/05/16 04:48 PM
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Joined: Jan 2015
Posts: 728
TxHunter80
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1/2" is a bold guarantee. It attracts a certain kind of shooter and commands a premium. It is very bad business to not verify that the rifles are meeting the guarantee before letting them leave the shop. If this is a common problem for the builder, it won't take long to catch up to him. People will be bashing the company on the forums soon enough.
It seems like it is pretty common for some of these companies to suffer growing pains. They make a name for themselves and all of sudden the company is growing in leaps and bounds. Prices rise, quality suffers and customer service becomes non-existent. There is a couple semi-custom rifle companies that seem to be experiencing it now.
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Re: 1/2 moa accuracy guarantee my a$$!
[Re: ChadTRG42]
#6288209
05/05/16 04:53 PM
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Joined: Nov 2010
Posts: 5,275
jeepercreeper
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I hear alot of sub-moa, 1/2 moa, 1/3 moa talk on the internets and manufacturer guarantees. That's exactly why I steer away from "custom" guns. It would be a serious kick in the groin to spend that much and determine it doesn't shoot. Or a serious kick in the groin to be sitting at the range next to a Savage or Howa that is shooting on par with your "custom" turd.
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Re: 1/2 moa accuracy guarantee my a$$!
[Re: ChadTRG42]
#6288213
05/05/16 04:56 PM
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Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 19,233
Judd
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For the record, I don't want my gunsmith shooting my gun and breaking it in...I've got my own way of doing it and his might not agree with mine.
I agree that they might put out a gun every once in a while that can't meet their claim. How they handle that is the question...I would be shocked if most didn't put it on a bad barrel (that happens sometimes too). More times than not the good barrel companies will stand behind the barrel though.
I also wouldn't expect the gunsmith to take someone's word for it and want the gun so they could do their own load development and if they prove it is shooter or the person doing the tune is responsible to pay for the time it took them to "prove" it.
That's just me but I only use guys that I know 1/2 inch isn't even a challenge for them.
Don't let your ears hear what your eyes didn't see, and don't let your mouth say what your heart doesn't feel
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