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"Long range" scope for 30-06 #6282520 05/01/16 09:24 PM
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chital_shikari Offline OP
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If you've seen and contributed to my hypothetical elk gun thread, whoop ti doo. Don't bring that into this thread.

I'm pretty much set on my scope-to-be, but am thinking about upgrading my dad's 30-06's Nikon Buckmasters 4-12x50mm with duplex reticle. Price point would be less than $1000, with under $700 (5-6) being the best bet. Wanting to be able to shoot out to 500yd, if necessary.

Re: "Long range" scope for 30-06 [Re: chital_shikari] #6282615 05/01/16 11:12 PM
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That's not "long range" instead should be called "hunting scope for 30.06"

What's wrong with the scope on there? SWFA 3-15 would be my answer for that price range


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Re: "Long range" scope for 30-06 [Re: chital_shikari] #6282617 05/01/16 11:13 PM
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Re: "Long range" scope for 30-06 [Re: chital_shikari] #6282618 05/01/16 11:13 PM
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http://swfa.com/Burris-3-15x50-XTR-II-34mm-Rifle-Scope-P87539.aspx

Came in budget by a dollar.

I have one of these on loan from Burris. I'm very impressed with it. The glass is very nice, the turrets are tactile and just hard enough to turn that they won't get turned without you knowing. 3X gets you a clear sight picture as close as 20 yards, and 15X has worked very well out to 800 yards. They went into this project to be in the price range of the Vortex Viper PST, they left the Viper in their dust. Better glass clarity than the SS in the same magnification range. Best bang for your buck without a doubt.


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Re: "Long range" scope for 30-06 [Re: BigPig] #6282620 05/01/16 11:16 PM
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Originally Posted By: BigPig
"

What's wrong with the scope on there?


Won't get him to 400 yards routinely.


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Re: "Long range" scope for 30-06 [Re: chital_shikari] #6282652 05/01/16 11:45 PM
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I am tremendously impressed with Burris of late. I have a 5-25x50 XTR II that is phenomenal, and several other burris products that are very very good and reliable.

Re: "Long range" scope for 30-06 [Re: J.G.] #6282715 05/02/16 12:20 AM
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Originally Posted By: FiremanJG
Originally Posted By: BigPig
"

What's wrong with the scope on there?


Won't get him to 400 yards routinely.


So.....it won't track?


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Re: "Long range" scope for 30-06 [Re: BOBO the Clown] #6282719 05/02/16 12:23 AM
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Doesn't even have turrets for it to track. Covered knobs. And a duplex reticle that does little for wind holds.


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Re: "Long range" scope for 30-06 [Re: chital_shikari] #6282759 05/02/16 12:42 AM
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Fireman and rguns, I am impressed with the Burris, but am going to have to pass on it this time around. If I can convince my dad to upgrade, I'd go SWFA.

On another note, I'm going 6-24 Viper PST FFP on the 270.

Re: "Long range" scope for 30-06 [Re: chital_shikari] #6282833 05/02/16 01:22 AM
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Originally Posted By: chital_shikari


On another note, I'm going 6-24 Viper PST FFP on the 270.


Had it, sold it, got the Burris.

The Viper took a little tumble on a Mule deer hunt and lost zero.

Same hunt, more times than I can remember, I'd unsling the rifle and the turrets had inadvertently been turned without me wanting them to be. And 6X is too high of a low end when in thick brush. At 5 pm today I hit a 10" and subsequently a 5" square at 500 yards in a 7 mph wind. But hey, you asked for guidance, when it looks like you already had your mind made up, so I don't know what further help I can be.


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Re: "Long range" scope for 30-06 [Re: chital_shikari] #6282857 05/02/16 01:34 AM
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I agree the 4-16 would be better suited for Th 270 & 30-06. I hunt with the 6-24 on my 308 & 270, and I give up some early morning and late evening shots. The 308 will love with the 6-24 but the 270 will be switched this year to a 3-15 Burris


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Re: "Long range" scope for 30-06 [Re: J.G.] #6282972 05/02/16 02:40 AM
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Originally Posted By: FiremanJG
Originally Posted By: chital_shikari


On another note, I'm going 6-24 Viper PST FFP on the 270.


Had it, sold it, got the Burris.

The Viper took a little tumble on a Mule deer hunt and lost zero.

Same hunt, more times than I can remember, I'd unsling the rifle and the turrets had inadvertently been turned without me wanting them to be. And 6X is too high of a low end when in thick brush. At 5 pm today I hit a 10" and subsequently a 5" square at 500 yards in a 7 mph wind. But hey, you asked for guidance, when it looks like you already had your mind made up, so I don't know what further help I can be.
Actually, I made my decision based on your "loaner" set up on your website. Well, now that it was 4 "yes"'s, I'll put that on my gun. One question: is it MRAD or MOA, or does it not matter? I'm really confused with MOA/MRAD as is, which is why I'll be taking your class this summer, lol.

I'll put the Burris on my gun, and the SWFA on his, God willing. up
Thanks for the input.

What bases/rings for a Vanguard for the Burris?

Last edited by chital_shikari; 05/02/16 02:50 AM.
Re: "Long range" scope for 30-06 [Re: chital_shikari] #6283089 05/02/16 10:29 AM
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Mil, MRAD, Miliradian are all the same thing. Avoid MOA in everything. I'll show you why on the dry erase board, and the range. Everyone always agrees.

I need to update the site. I've changed some things and need it to reflect those changes.

See if EGW makes one piece Pic rail for both rifles. 20 MOA base will get the scope zeroed on the first revolution, as it was designed to be.


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Re: "Long range" scope for 30-06 [Re: chital_shikari] #6283241 05/02/16 01:33 PM
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I was going Warne 2 piece base and permanent rings...is there any reason why this combo won't work?

Re: "Long range" scope for 30-06 [Re: chital_shikari] #6283281 05/02/16 02:06 PM
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It will work, but there are two reasons to one piece pic rail is a better way.

1. The one piece pic rail is stronger, and often creates better alignment

2.With the one piece pic rail, and rings that have the Weaver connection, with cross bolt allow the scope to be quickly and easily moved to another rifle. That is how I can have three scopes for six rifles. A 1/2" hex nut loosened, scope and rings come off in one piece. Move the scope to another rifle that is also wearing a pic rail. Rezero in two shots. So when you buy another rifle you do not have to buy another scope. Good scopes are expensive, after all.

Talley Tactical, and Badger Ordinance are the rings of this style that I use.


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Re: "Long range" scope for 30-06 [Re: chital_shikari] #6283291 05/02/16 02:12 PM
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Your vanguard should have a large number of base/ring options as it uses the same base as a rem 700.


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Re: "Long range" scope for 30-06 [Re: J.G.] #6283317 05/02/16 02:26 PM
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Originally Posted By: FiremanJG
Doesn't even have turrets for it to track. Covered knobs. And a duplex reticle that does little for wind holds.


So you can't dial a scope with capped vertical and horzional adjustment..... How do you zero it for a hundred then?


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Re: "Long range" scope for 30-06 [Re: BOBO the Clown] #6283346 05/02/16 02:50 PM
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Sure you can dial, but typically you're counting clicks, as opposed to looking at numbers on a turret. And they are not designed to stand up to the constant moving of a turret type scope.


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Re: "Long range" scope for 30-06 [Re: J.G.] #6283394 05/02/16 03:18 PM
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Originally Posted By: FiremanJG
Sure you can dial, but typically you're counting clicks, as opposed to looking at numbers on a turret. And they are not designed to stand up to the constant moving of a turret type scope.


The knob/turret is 1/4 MOA.

30-06 150gr sst
400 yards is 5.83 MOA drop with 100yard zero
The plex reticle appears at make power has 2.09 MOA to each side...... 20mph 90 degree wind = 2MOA


10min needed at the range to verify and or change the math

For someone that's not going to shoot over 400 yards that scope is fine. Just needs to spend time learning it at the range. Is it the best option no but then again it's 400 yards not 500,600,700,800

I constantly take swaro z3, original vortex viper and Ziess conquest to 400yards all the time. All capped turrets. No issues with wind hold or dialing.



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Re: "Long range" scope for 30-06 [Re: BOBO the Clown] #6283405 05/02/16 03:24 PM
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How many instances is "all the time"?

So you remove the cap and dial it?

And 2 MOA is a whole lot of wind hold.


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Re: "Long range" scope for 30-06 [Re: chital_shikari] #6283452 05/02/16 03:55 PM
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Hey Chital. If you are serious about going up to FiremanJGs to take the class -- which i highly recommend you do (even if you never take a hunting shot further than 300-400 his after his class and getting comfortable out to 800, 300 seem like a chip shot) -- i suggest you HOLD OFF on buying or even mentally committing yourself to both the caliber (nothing wrong with .270 btw) and the scope. In all likelihood, you WILL change your mind on what you want after you take his class. I speak from experience on this.

Before i took his class i had bought a Tikka T3 CTR in 308 and put an expensive Trijicon (has MOA turrets and Mil reticle, worthless!). Great gun and scope, but my uneducated purchases really handicapped me. Ended up taking off Triji and it now has a SWFA SS riding up top. I also ended up building a semi-custom in a different caliber with his help -- could have been done for about the same cost as the CTR off the shelf.

Take his class and use one of his rifles -- you can rent it and the ammo. Look thru his different scopes and get a feel for what you really like and want. Big difference looking, adjusting, and shooting with a scope compared to how it looks and feels in the store or based on other people's "opinions" online.

Do it right and you will have a rig that will last you a lifetime and will fit your needs and budget exactly.

Re: "Long range" scope for 30-06 [Re: chital_shikari] #6283460 05/02/16 04:02 PM
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Like JG I prefer Mils, however I do make do with MOA on one rifle cause I cant find a MIL based reticle I like for it.

Re: "Long range" scope for 30-06 [Re: J.G.] #6283461 05/02/16 04:02 PM
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Originally Posted By: FiremanJG
How many instances is "all the time"?

So you remove the cap and dial it?

And 2 MOA is a whole lot of wind hold.


It is but you have the ability to hold it on a plex reticle, just like any other reticle.

We have discussed this before.

My swaro I hardly every dial because it has a 300 zero. My creedmoor that's a different story because it has 100 yard zero, and it barks a lot.

Point is a reticle is a constant, whether it has dots, hashes, break etc.

Knowing what you know and as much as you shoot, I could give you any of my rifles, tell you the verification on the reticle even if it's a plex, give you my cut card and I'm sure @400 or less you will smoke what ever you shoot. And I bet you do it all day long.

Not saying his scope is the best for the job or most user friendly, just saying it's very very doable. It's the principles that are sitting behind the gun and knowing how to use what's on the gun.

we are also assuming the gun will hold a decent degree of MOA as much as the Shooter.

Make sense?





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Re: "Long range" scope for 30-06 [Re: chital_shikari] #6283511 05/02/16 04:28 PM
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I'm with BOBO on this one.

Under 400, IMO the advantages of not "dialing" (time saved) and running the risk of choosing the wrong stadia line or dot or whatever in the heat of battle outweigh the benefits for the vast majority of folks.

With some practice and knowing your gun, getting pretty proficient at reasonable ranges is doable for most folks. The wind is always the wind....dialing or extra stadia doesn't help you dope the wind.

Past 400, it's another world where the game changes completely......


Originally Posted by Russ79
I learned long ago you can't reason someone out of something they don't reason themselves into.


Re: "Long range" scope for 30-06 [Re: BOBO the Clown] #6283545 05/02/16 04:44 PM
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I have everyone dial out to 800, then start over doing pure holds out to 800, because it is something everyone has to know how to do. And that is because there are cases where the speed matters. I actually practice pure holds very often. Best I've done on my range is 200 to 800, ever hundred, in 60 seconds.

I completely agree holds are much easier 400 yards and less, but I will always dial if I have the one second needed to do so. Then I can concentrate on wind hold only, and get to live on my windage line, instead of down in no man's land, out in space (unless using a Horus type reticle)

He is wanting to get a new scope, I might as well point him to the one that will make life the easiest.


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