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#6282803 - 05/01/16 08:00 PM Hybrid vs VLD
Big Stan Offline
Bird Dog

Registered: 05/02/14
Posts: 263
I have never tried Hybrid, and how much difference does Hybrid have in comparison to VLD? I know that VLD needs a very short seating depth to touch the lands. I, mostly, am using Matchkings, but may be using Bergers soon for the Creedmore 6.5

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#6282809 - 05/01/16 08:04 PM Re: Hybrid vs VLD [Re: Big Stan]
bo323 Online   content
Tracker

Registered: 09/24/11
Posts: 705
Loc: Snyder, tx
Hybrid should be more forgiving on the seating depth. Its possible to load to mag length with them however I still Los them long in my 300win.

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#6282837 - 05/01/16 08:24 PM Re: Hybrid vs VLD [Re: Big Stan]
Ritter Online   content


Registered: 02/15/09
Posts: 246
Loc: Southern Oklahoma
With the combination of a tangent and secant ogive the Hybrid is more forgiving of seating depth. This makes it much easier to develop a magazine length load that shoots accurately. Hybrids also has a very high B.C. for its caliber/weight so they make a great long range choice.
The Hybrids are designed as a target bullet so you may want to keep that in mind if you want to use them for hunting. I use them for my hunting in a 7LRM and have had great results with them.
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#6282952 - 05/01/16 09:23 PM Re: Hybrid vs VLD [Re: Big Stan]
jeff1383 Offline
Tracker

Registered: 05/19/11
Posts: 873
Loc: Frisco
The difference of BC between the two is minimal. I've had better results with 140 vlds in 2 different rifles than with hybrids. My experience has been that the hybrids ARE seating depth sensitive as to where the vlds have been super accurate between .010 to .070 off.

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#6282953 - 05/01/16 09:27 PM Re: Hybrid vs VLD [Re: Big Stan]
jeff1383 Offline
Tracker

Registered: 05/19/11
Posts: 873
Loc: Frisco

Here's a seating depth test using the 140 vld in a .260 I've NEVER seen any of my rifles shoot the hybrid this tight in a seating depth test.


Edited by jeff1383 (05/01/16 09:27 PM)

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#6283026 - 05/01/16 10:41 PM Re: Hybrid vs VLD [Re: jeff1383]
Big Stan Offline
Bird Dog

Registered: 05/02/14
Posts: 263
Originally Posted By: jeff1383

Here's a seating depth test using the 140 vld in a .260 I've NEVER seen any of my rifles shoot the hybrid this tight in a seating depth test.


Looks like it shoots better the further out you seat them. I read somewhere that the VLD shoots better off the lands, anywhere from .025 to .075

Nice grouping.


Edited by Big Stan (05/01/16 10:44 PM)

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#6283034 - 05/01/16 10:52 PM Re: Hybrid vs VLD [Re: Big Stan]
Judd Online   content


Registered: 01/22/09
Posts: 10742
Loc: Sachse, TX
Every barrel is different...even if same caliber and reamer is used. I can't or won't explain it...but the hybrids are worth trying and a great target bullet. The 105 6mm is a impressive little bullet. Not a thing wrong with VLD's either...just pick your poison.
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#6283175 - 05/02/16 07:34 AM Re: Hybrid vs VLD [Re: jeff1383]
FiremanJG Offline
THF Celebrity

Registered: 12/16/08
Posts: 17893
Loc: Wolfe City, TX
Guess you went with the .050" jump. wink
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#6283215 - 05/02/16 08:12 AM Re: Hybrid vs VLD [Re: Big Stan]
jeepercreeper Offline
Extreme Tracker

Registered: 11/07/10
Posts: 3634
Loc: DFW
I'm about to order some 6.5 bullets and was about to get Hybrids. Dang, maybe I should try some VLDs as well.

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#6283231 - 05/02/16 08:26 AM Re: Hybrid vs VLD [Re: Big Stan]
dee Offline
Extreme Tracker

Registered: 04/10/10
Posts: 4664
Loc: Red River way
Hybrids are nice and would be my first choice over the vld if it's an option. That being said if you already have a great load with smk I would just run it.
_________________________
"A vote is like a rifle; it's usefulness depends on the character of the user" Theodore Roosevelt

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#6283337 - 05/02/16 09:44 AM Re: Hybrid vs VLD [Re: Big Stan]
Dien Online   content
Bird Dog

Registered: 08/16/12
Posts: 388
Loc: Grand Prairie
Four shots at 100, hybrids.

Even Berger says the Hybrid are not as picky as the VLDs, but YMMV.


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#6283578 - 05/02/16 12:00 PM Re: Hybrid vs VLD [Re: Big Stan]
RedSnake Online   content
Veteran Tracker

Registered: 05/08/10
Posts: 2986
Loc: Dallas / Nolan County
interesting read on VLD seating depth from Berger's site -- http://www.bergerbullets.com/getting-the-best-precision-and-accuracy-from-vld-bullets-in-your-rifle/

Quote:
The following has been verified by numerous shooters in many rifles using bullets of different calibers and weights. It is consistent for all VLD bullets. What has been discovered is that VLD bullets shoot best when loaded to a COAL that puts the bullet in a “sweet spot”. This sweet spot is a band .030 to .040 wide and is located anywhere between jamming the bullets into the lands and .150 jump off the lands.

Note: When discussing jam and jump I am referring to the distance from the area of the bearing surface that engages the rifling and the rifling itself. There are many products that allow you to measure these critical dimensions. Some are better than others. I won’t be going into the methods of measuring jam and jump. If you are not familiar with this aspect of reloading it is critically important that you understand this concept before you attempt this test.

Many reloaders feel (and I tend to agree) that meaningful COAL adjustments are .002 to .005. Every once in a while I might adjust the COAL by .010 but this seems like I am moving the bullet the length of a football field. The only way a shooter will be able to benefit from this situation is to let go of this opinion that more than .010 change is too much (me included).

Trying to find the COAL that puts you in the sweet spot by moving .002 to .010 will take so long the barrel may be worn out by the time you sort it out if you don’t give up first. Since the sweet spot is .030 to .040 wide we recommend that you conduct the following test to find your rifles VLD sweet spot.

Load 24 rounds at the following COAL if you are a target competition shooter who does not worry about jamming a bullet:
1. .010 into (touching) the lands (jam) 6 rounds
2. .040 off the lands (jump) 6 rounds
3. .080 off the lands (jump) 6 rounds
4. .120 off the lands (jump) 6 rounds

Load 24 rounds at the following COAL if you are a hunter (pulling a bullet out of the case with your rifling while in the field can be a hunt ending event which must be avoided) or a competition shooter who worries about pulling a bullet during a match:
1. .010 off the lands (jump) 6 rounds
2. .050 off the lands (jump) 6 rounds
3. .090 off the lands (jump) 6 rounds
4. .130 off the lands (jump) 6 rounds

Shoot 2 (separate) 3 shot groups in fair conditions to see how they group. The remarkable reality of this test is that one of these 4 COALs will outperform the other three by a considerable margin. Once you know which one of these 4 COAL shoots best then you can tweak the COAL +/- .002 or .005. Taking the time to set this test up will pay off when you find that your rifle is capable of shooting the VLD bullets very well (even at 100 yards).
_________________________


by RedSnake Enterprises, LLC
www.i-Solunar.com

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#6283708 - 05/02/16 01:35 PM Re: Hybrid vs VLD [Re: FiremanJG]
jeff1383 Offline
Tracker

Registered: 05/19/11
Posts: 873
Loc: Frisco
Originally Posted By: FiremanJG
Guess you went with the .050" jump. wink


Haha I did! It was shooting so well I had to sell it and buy another rifle for some odd reason loco

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#6283712 - 05/02/16 01:38 PM Re: Hybrid vs VLD [Re: Dien]
jeff1383 Offline
Tracker

Registered: 05/19/11
Posts: 873
Loc: Frisco
Originally Posted By: Dien
Four shots at 100, hybrids.

Even Berger says the Hybrid are not as picky as the VLDs, but YMMV.



Cool.....now shoot 3-4 more groups with .010 jump sequence and I bet you won't produce groups near that size. I'm not saying hybrids suck...they're a great bullet. My personal experience is they require a lot of work to shoot well.

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#6283726 - 05/02/16 01:48 PM Re: Hybrid vs VLD [Re: Big Stan]
ChadTRG42 Offline
THF Trophy Hunter

Registered: 09/16/09
Posts: 9393
Loc: Lewisville, TX
The VLD's do shoot best close to the lands. They say there is a sweet spot jumping them, but I have yet to find it. I have tried the VLD's in rifles that can not get the VLD's close tot he lands, and they do not shoot as good. You can get moa accuracy, but I'm talking about the sweet spot where the groups go to one hole or 1/3 moa or better.

If I have a situation where there will be a jump, then the hybrids will be used. They will tolerate a jump better than the VLD's, and still shoot good. They are definitely less finicky, but not 100% immune to jump. The hybrids like a slight jump, where the VLD;s like to be touching (not jammed) or very close to lands.
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www.DallasReloads.com
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