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Interesting article- sums up when you allow fair chase to be defined #6280446 04/29/16 07:20 PM
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Interesting article---when anti's use a rift among hunters- Anti's end up defining fair chase... In the end bear population explodes and so do bear/people issues.. The Anti's are pecking away at us

"“Our efforts are focused on what we consider to be the worst abuses,” says HSUS Wildlife Protection Director Elise Traub in an Outside Online interview. “I think the public and even a lot of ethical hunters have these standards like fair-chase, where animals have a fair chance to get away from the hunter. That’s completely absent in hound hunting, and when the public learns about that, they’re disgusted by it.”

Allowing groups such as the HSUS to determine what is “fair chase” is dangerous."


http://www.gohunt.com/read/life/systematic-attacks-on-black-bear-hunting-in-california


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Re: Interesting article- sums up when you allow fair chase to be defined [Re: BOBO the Clown] #6280546 04/29/16 08:56 PM
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popcorn



Re: Interesting article- sums up when you allow fair chase to be defined [Re: Texas Tatonkas] #6280835 04/30/16 01:14 AM
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Originally Posted By: Texas Tatonkas
popcorn


It's Friday an no one wants to be that serious smile


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Re: Interesting article- sums up when you allow fair chase to be defined [Re: BOBO the Clown] #6281123 04/30/16 12:29 PM
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HSUS is a horrible organization. What I really think about them wouldnt be allowed on this board.


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Re: Interesting article- sums up when you allow fair chase to be defined [Re: rtp] #6281172 04/30/16 01:36 PM
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Originally Posted By: rtp
HSUS is a horrible organization. What I really think about them wouldnt be allowed on this board.


Agreed


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Re: Interesting article- sums up when you allow fair chase to be defined [Re: Eland Slayer] #6281408 04/30/16 05:58 PM
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Originally Posted By: Eland Slayer
Originally Posted By: rtp
HSUS is a horrible organization. What I really think about them wouldnt be allowed on this board.


Agreed


And we seem to be playing right into their hands


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Re: Interesting article- sums up when you allow fair chase to be defined [Re: BOBO the Clown] #6281458 04/30/16 06:59 PM
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Originally Posted By: BOBO the Clown
Originally Posted By: Eland Slayer
Originally Posted By: rtp
HSUS is a horrible organization. What I really think about them wouldnt be allowed on this board.


Agreed


And we seem to be playing right into their hands


HSUS sucks - on that all here will agree.

Curious though, are you saying there should be no definition of "fair chase" period?


Originally Posted by Russ79
I learned long ago you can't reason someone out of something they don't reason themselves into.


Re: Interesting article- sums up when you allow fair chase to be defined [Re: Nogalus Prairie] #6281636 04/30/16 11:18 PM
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Originally Posted By: Nogalus Prairie
Originally Posted By: BOBO the Clown
Originally Posted By: Eland Slayer
Originally Posted By: rtp
HSUS is a horrible organization. What I really think about them wouldnt be allowed on this board.


Agreed


And we seem to be playing right into their hands


HSUS sucks - on that all here will agree.

Curious though, are you saying there should be no definition of "fair chase" period?


I'm saying careful how you express your opinion, when you trash a legal method of hunting, you might as well be the HSUS.... They have banned baiting, dogs and ever seasons so far.

So yes I think the term fair chase is complete an utter BS. There is no true definition, can't be one, not when you are human and have the mind and Physical ability that makes you the ultimate predator. As soon as you define it you give ammo to anti's to chip away at every thing we do as hunters, especially when divide as seen in the article.


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Re: Interesting article- sums up when you allow fair chase to be defined [Re: BOBO the Clown] #6281937 05/01/16 04:00 AM
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What bs .

What gives the antis their ammo is hunters NOT having any definitions, standards, or ethics. If we don't decide what they are as HUNTERS, that's what opens the door for others to decide them for us.

By saying fair chase is "complete and udder(sic) BS", you provide more ammo for antis than those willing to debate what constitutes fair chase ever will. Why? Because it fits right into any anti-hunting narrative that hunters are just out to satisfy some bloodlust by killing.


Originally Posted by Russ79
I learned long ago you can't reason someone out of something they don't reason themselves into.


Re: Interesting article- sums up when you allow fair chase to be defined [Re: Nogalus Prairie] #6282108 05/01/16 02:28 PM
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Originally Posted By: Nogalus Prairie
What bs .

What gives the antis their ammo is hunters NOT having any definitions, standards, or ethics. If we don't decide what they are as HUNTERS, that's what opens the door for others to decide them for us.

By saying fair chase is "complete and udder(sic) BS", you provide more ammo for antis than those willing to debate what constitutes fair chase ever will. Why? Because it fits right into any anti-hunting narrative that hunters are just out to satisfy some bloodlust by killing.



I
up to N.P.'s comment.

On a slightly different, probably off-topic, note: do anti's ever try to post on here? Now that could get interesting quick .... I am guessing that they are probably filtered out.

Re: Interesting article- sums up when you allow fair chase to be defined [Re: Nogalus Prairie] #6282114 05/01/16 02:31 PM
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Originally Posted By: Nogalus Prairie
What bs .

What gives the antis their ammo is hunters NOT having any definitions, standards, or ethics. If we don't decide what they are as HUNTERS, that's what opens the door for others to decide them for us.

By saying fair chase is "complete and udder(sic) BS", you provide more ammo for antis than those willing to debate what constitutes fair chase ever will. Why? Because it fits right into any anti-hunting narrative that hunters are just out to satisfy some bloodlust by killing.



Says a guy that uses a $$$ rifle and top end outfitters.....

Legal is legal, ethics are defined by the law. Again like I mentioned before forest to plate shuts up any anti, you can't tell the difference in a deer steak that was shot with a traditional wooden arrow vs 500 yards with a custom rifle. You can't tell the difference in a mule deer steak that wade lemon guided on the strip and one shot in west Texas from a high rack. You can't tell the difference In a whitetail steak that was killed under a feeder vs a trail in the Sabine River bottoms.

Like I said Fair chase is 100% BS!!! All it does is create riffs, feeders vs no feeders, feeders vs food plots, rifles vs archery, guide vs unguided, private vs public, hounds vs no hounds, shooting from boat vs non boat. List can go on and on.

Thoughts like yours is what will close hunting. Your way or the highway.


The article proves my point. When free chase is defined Anti's use it to close opportunity and seasons. Period


Something simple as Baiting and Hounds... Now gone because of anti using riffs amoung hunters. But like always YOU don't care because it's not how you hunt so no biggy..


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Re: Interesting article- sums up when you allow fair chase to be defined [Re: ALM TXhunter] #6282123 05/01/16 02:41 PM
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Originally Posted By: ALM TXhunter
Originally Posted By: Nogalus Prairie
What bs .

What gives the antis their ammo is hunters NOT having any definitions, standards, or ethics. If we don't decide what they are as HUNTERS, that's what opens the door for others to decide them for us.

By saying fair chase is "complete and udder(sic) BS", you provide more ammo for antis than those willing to debate what constitutes fair chase ever will. Why? Because it fits right into any anti-hunting narrative that hunters are just out to satisfy some bloodlust by killing.



I
up to N.P.'s comment.

On a slightly different, probably off-topic, note: do anti's ever try to post on here? Now that could get interesting quick .... I am guessing that they are probably filtered out.



Think about that for a second.... So you can't use feeders in Iowa because that's not fair chase so should that make 40 states that use feeders non fair chase?

What about states like Iowa that don't allow center fire rifles? Rifles aren't fair chase apparently, so you ready to give up using your rifle?

This is what the article is telling you will happen


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Re: Interesting article- sums up when you allow fair chase to be defined [Re: BOBO the Clown] #6282171 05/01/16 03:43 PM
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Originally Posted By: BOBO the Clown
Originally Posted By: Nogalus Prairie
What bs .

What gives the antis their ammo is hunters NOT having any definitions, standards, or ethics. If we don't decide what they are as HUNTERS, that's what opens the door for others to decide them for us.

By saying fair chase is "complete and udder(sic) BS", you provide more ammo for antis than those willing to debate what constitutes fair chase ever will. Why? Because it fits right into any anti-hunting narrative that hunters are just out to satisfy some bloodlust by killing.



Says a guy that uses a $$$ rifle and top end outfitters.....

Legal is legal, ethics are defined by the law. Again like I mentioned before forest to plate shuts up any anti, you can't tell the difference in a deer steak that was shot with a traditional wooden arrow vs 500 yards with a custom rifle. You can't tell the difference in a mule deer steak that wade lemon guided on the strip and one shot in west Texas from a high rack. You can't tell the difference In a whitetail steak that was killed under a feeder vs a trail in the Sabine River bottoms.

Like I said Fair chase is 100% BS!!! All it does is create riffs, feeders vs no feeders, feeders vs food plots, rifles vs archery, guide vs unguided, private vs public, hounds vs no hounds, shooting from boat vs non boat. List can go on and on.

Thoughts like yours is what will close hunting. Your way or the highway.


The article proves my point. When free chase is defined Anti's use it to close opportunity and seasons. Period


Something simple as Baiting and Hounds... Now gone because of anti using riffs amoung hunters. But like always YOU don't care because it's not how you hunt so no biggy..


I agree 100% Bobo.

Blood lust killing? Come on NP, these antis support it every time they eat chicken at a restaraunt. Fair chase, the chicken lives in the cage its whole life being Sh!t on from above until it's slaughtered for the table. It is OK to admit we enjoy killing our meat and not try to shy away from it. Our methods are far more ethical and fair chase then the methods they support every day when they sit down at the dinner table.


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Re: Interesting article- sums up when you allow fair chase to be defined [Re: BOBO the Clown] #6282449 05/01/16 08:11 PM
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This thread makes zero sense. In your zeal to equate those who subscribe to and discuss fair chase with antis, you are willing to throw out fair chase as BS. If you don't understand how crazy that is and where that path leads, I can't help you.

The antis don't matter. The rest of the folks do. The non-hunters and hunters who don't think the notion of fair chase is BS do matter. Equate hunting with just killing, and you'll find the island you're on to be pretty small.

The real threat to hunting is not those who subscribe to fair chase and are willing to discuss what it should look like - it's those who have no standards at all.

Plus all the presumptions about how I feel about hounds, feeders, rifles in Iowa, etc. are just that - presumptions. Straw men. I never said anything against them. Just silly deflection.

Last edited by Nogalus Prairie; 05/01/16 08:12 PM.

Originally Posted by Russ79
I learned long ago you can't reason someone out of something they don't reason themselves into.


Re: Interesting article- sums up when you allow fair chase to be defined [Re: BOBO the Clown] #6282471 05/01/16 08:40 PM
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Those are examples not your personal opinion. Starting to think you are commenting again with out reading the article.

I'll paraphase it for you..... HSUS used a very small minority of hunters opinion to push using dogs for bears was NOT FAIR CHASE, thus getting it outlawed.

Now do my examples make sense?


Only one fail proof agruement and it's not if we use feeders, high power rifles, blinds, high racks, etc... It's Forrest to plate.

No having to justify that.


When you define Fair Chase you have to justify it.


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Re: Interesting article- sums up when you allow fair chase to be defined [Re: BOBO the Clown] #6282486 05/01/16 08:50 PM
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Being unwilling to justify something sends the signal (in this case wrong signal) to others there is no justification for it at all.


Originally Posted by Russ79
I learned long ago you can't reason someone out of something they don't reason themselves into.


Re: Interesting article- sums up when you allow fair chase to be defined [Re: Nogalus Prairie] #6282548 05/01/16 09:59 PM
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Originally Posted By: Nogalus Prairie
Being unwilling to justify something sends the signal (in this case wrong signal) to others there is no justification for it at all.


One justification Forrest to plate, taking responsibility for what you eat. Why justify using a rifle when you can use a bow. Why justify a feeder when you can hunt just a food plot, why hunt private when there is public,

Make it about the plate and method doesn't matter. You are THE apex predator. Nothing is fair chase when you can use a rifle and smoke an animal at 200plus yards or a compound bow at 40,50,60,70, 80yards. What's fair chase about driving around on a 100k LF acre private ranch hunting an elk herd that doesn't migrate, picking one out and walking 50 yards from the truck(or from the truck) and shooting a big bull 300yards away?

What's fair chase about calling yotes at night? There are states that you can't hunt yotes at night... So apparently that's not fair chase, same with deer hunting with a centerfire rifle. How are you going to justify that?








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Re: Interesting article- sums up when you allow fair chase to be defined [Re: BOBO the Clown] #6282603 05/01/16 10:57 PM
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Because it's his way.....therefore the only way! roflmao



Re: Interesting article- sums up when you allow fair chase to be defined [Re: Nogalus Prairie] #6282609 05/01/16 11:02 PM
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Originally Posted By: Nogalus Prairie
What bs .

What gives the antis their ammo is hunters NOT having any definitions, standards, or ethics. If we don't decide what they are as HUNTERS, that's what opens the door for others to decide them for us.

By saying fair chase is "complete and udder(sic) BS", you provide more ammo for antis than those willing to debate what constitutes fair chase ever will. Why? Because it fits right into any anti-hunting narrative that hunters are just out to satisfy some bloodlust by killing.




+1


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Re: Interesting article- sums up when you allow fair chase to be defined [Re: Texas Tatonkas] #6282660 05/01/16 11:49 PM
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Originally Posted By: Texas Tatonkas
Because it's his way.....therefore the only way! roflmao


The law isn't enough apparently for him. It's ok the antis will just continue down their road of finding frac lines and exploting them, all while introducing predators and protecting them until their isn't a sustainable source of game for hunters thus ending hunting.


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Re: Interesting article- sums up when you allow fair chase to be defined [Re: Texas Tatonkas] #6282686 05/02/16 12:08 AM
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Originally Posted By: Texas Tatonkas
Because it's his way.....therefore the only way! roflmao



rofl


Re: Interesting article- sums up when you allow fair chase to be defined [Re: BOBO the Clown] #6282827 05/02/16 01:19 AM
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Originally Posted By: BOBO the Clown
Originally Posted By: Nogalus Prairie
Being unwilling to justify something sends the signal (in this case wrong signal) to others there is no justification for it at all.


One justification Forrest to plate, taking responsibility for what you eat. Why justify using a rifle when you can use a bow. Why justify a feeder when you can hunt just a food plot, why hunt private when there is public,

Make it about the plate and method doesn't matter. You are THE apex predator. Nothing is fair chase when you can use a rifle and smoke an animal at 200plus yards or a compound bow at 40,50,60,70, 80yards. What's fair chase about driving around on a 100k LF acre private ranch hunting an elk herd that doesn't migrate, picking one out and walking 50 yards from the truck(or from the truck) and shooting a big bull 300yards away?

What's fair chase about calling yotes at night? There are states that you can't hunt yotes at night... So apparently that's not fair chase, same with deer hunting with a centerfire rifle. How are you going to justify that?








Not arguing one way or the other because y'all both have valid points, but one thing BoBo that you keep confusing is safety and fair chase. You keep giving examples of something being illegal in certain states but not in others and claiming it must not be fair chase but in reality it is all about safety and nothing to do with fair chase.

Re: Interesting article- sums up when you allow fair chase to be defined [Re: BOBO the Clown] #6282863 05/02/16 01:36 AM
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No. It's not saftey. Unless you are talking about wildlife saftey. Iowa's centerfire restrictions are for sustainability reasons not saftey. Same with limited gun seasons in Okla, Kansas etc it's about curving harvests numbers. Obviously centerfire rifles are much much more effective then archery, ML and shotguns. Same reason CO has so many OTC units and long season for Archery compared to rifle.


So yes weapon choice is about fair chase. It's a basis for tag allocation. Elk, sheep, mule deer, white tails even turkeys tags are all managed by weapon and the correlating success rates


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Re: Interesting article- sums up when you allow fair chase to be defined [Re: BOBO the Clown] #6282906 05/02/16 01:55 AM
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Originally Posted By: BOBO the Clown
No. It's not saftey. Unless you are talking about wildlife saftey. Iowa's centerfire restrictions are for sustainability reasons not saftey. Same with limited gun seasons in Okla, Kansas etc it's about curving harvests numbers. Obviously centerfire rifles are much much more effective then archery, ML and shotguns. Same reason CO has so many OTC units and long season for Archery compared to rifle.


So yes weapon choice is about fair chase. It's a basis for tag allocation. Elk, sheep, mule deer, white tails even turkeys tags are all managed by weapon and the correlating success rates


Thanks for the lesson BoBo. I knew seasons were limited and what have you but I always thought that shotguns were more safety related.

Re: Interesting article- sums up when you allow fair chase to be defined [Re: BOBO the Clown] #6282924 05/02/16 02:09 AM
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The bottom line is it's no newsflash that an anti-hunting group is against hunting. It's why they are known as an anti-hunting group.

It was just a stir post in a silly attempt to equate hunters who subscribe to a fair chase ethic with anti-hunters.

The usual participants have lined up as always and (surprise) they have once again informed us of their opinions that any notion of fair chase is BS.

So there's really nothing new to see here....


Originally Posted by Russ79
I learned long ago you can't reason someone out of something they don't reason themselves into.


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