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Snake avoidance clinic? #6279745 04/29/16 03:24 AM
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Gunther14 Offline OP
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Looking for snake avoidance clinic for our labrador, does anyone know of one coming up?
Thanks

Re: Snake avoidance clinic? [Re: Gunther14] #6279859 04/29/16 11:27 AM
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snakebreaker.com

Wayne travels all over and does an excellent clinic.

Where are you located?

Re: Snake avoidance clinic? [Re: stinkbelly] #6280029 04/29/16 01:50 PM
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Near Tyler, tx

Re: Snake avoidance clinic? [Re: Gunther14] #6285308 05/03/16 08:37 PM
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Originally Posted By: Gunther14
Near Tyler, tx


The closest I will be to you is in august at Stinkbelly's place or at Tioga retrievers.

Re: Snake avoidance clinic? [Re: wal1809] #6287163 05/04/16 10:40 PM
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I wish I had saw that you were in Leander this past weekend, that's all of 10 min away from me.

Re: Snake avoidance clinic? [Re: Gunther14] #6288380 05/05/16 07:53 PM
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Wayne good meeting you last weekend. Sorry I couldn't visit more. Did you have a good turn out? I think I was lucky to get in as a walk up.

Re: Snake avoidance clinic? [Re: _Lee] #6289417 05/06/16 03:09 PM
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Originally Posted By: _Lee
I wish I had saw that you were in Leander this past weekend, that's all of 10 min away from me.


Look at my schedule. I will be back there the 21 of August I believe.

Re: Snake avoidance clinic? [Re: js4242] #6289419 05/06/16 03:10 PM
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Originally Posted By: js4242
Wayne good meeting you last weekend. Sorry I couldn't visit more. Did you have a good turn out? I think I was lucky to get in as a walk up.


It was my pleasure. You are right, we got very busy. GR Elliot was there and I hardly had anytime to visit.

Re: Snake avoidance clinic? [Re: wal1809] #6289934 05/06/16 10:14 PM
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Originally Posted By: wal1809
Originally Posted By: _Lee
I wish I had saw that you were in Leander this past weekend, that's all of 10 min away from me.


Look at my schedule. I will be back there the 21 of August I believe.


Awesome, I'm not sure how I missed that.

Re: Snake avoidance clinic? [Re: Gunther14] #6291520 05/08/16 07:20 PM
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Is that the right address for drakes. His web site still shows where he always is in spring not montgomery

Re: Snake avoidance clinic? [Re: blanked] #6293539 05/10/16 03:16 PM
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Originally Posted By: blanked
Is that the right address for drakes. His web site still shows where he always is in spring not montgomery



They have definately moved to Montgomery.

Re: Snake avoidance clinic? [Re: Gunther14] #6300468 05/16/16 07:28 PM
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I did Wal's class with my lab last year in September. Highly recommended.

Ran into either a Texas Rat Snake or a Bull Snake last week in my yard. My dog was down the side of my house and wouldn't come when I called. Finally I go around the corner and the snake was laying on the sidewalk between us.

Fortunately not a dangerous snake but my dog didn't know that and still wouldn't go near it. Guessing at least some of the snake training stuck with her!

Re: Snake avoidance clinic? [Re: Gunther14] #6300696 05/16/16 10:55 PM
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I caught a smaller rattler over the weekend to try this at home on mine and a buddies dog. Great theory but don't know in practice . . .


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Re: Snake avoidance clinic? [Re: passthru] #6301120 05/17/16 11:25 AM
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Originally Posted By: passthru
I caught a smaller rattler over the weekend to try this at home on mine and a buddies dog. Great theory but don't know in practice . . .


If you do this wrong, you can make your dog aggressive towards snakes or not afraid of snakes. If you don't know what you are doing, leave it to the professionals. One of the worst things you can do is make your dog think the snake is a pray animal.

Re: Snake avoidance clinic? [Re: TX_Diver] #6304373 05/19/16 09:33 PM
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Originally Posted By: TX_Diver
I did Wal's class with my lab last year in September. Highly recommended.

Ran into either a Texas Rat Snake or a Bull Snake last week in my yard. My dog was down the side of my house and wouldn't come when I called. Finally I go around the corner and the snake was laying on the sidewalk between us.

Fortunately not a dangerous snake but my dog didn't know that and still wouldn't go near it. Guessing at least some of the snake training stuck with her!

Far to often I here the bad stories about dogs getting hit even after the training. It is really nice to read the good reports. Thank you so much for posting.

Re: Snake avoidance clinic? [Re: passthru] #6304381 05/19/16 09:41 PM
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Originally Posted By: passthru
I caught a smaller rattler over the weekend to try this at home on mine and a buddies dog. Great theory but don't know in practice . . .


I don't reckon I need to say how this is a bad idea on SOOOOOOO many levels. This training does not have the same basis as obedience or other types of training. We are not commanding the dog, then correcting. Short of typing a 10 page essay I will boil it down to this. Proper snake avoidance training forces the dog to make a decision on its own without a command from Alpha.

This is why I lose my mind when I read blogs on the "new improved" way to train snake aversion with clickers. Ohhhhhhh! That tells me the trainers accepting money for this service either have no idea what they are doing. That or they know what they are doing and are praying on the ignorance of timid dog owners. Either way they are massively irresponsible.

Re: Snake avoidance clinic? [Re: Gunther14] #6304516 05/19/16 11:36 PM
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No, since you responded we decided Timmy will make a nice hat band. Unless you want him?


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Re: Snake avoidance clinic? [Re: Gunther14] #6304519 05/19/16 11:37 PM
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He's a little pissed being stuck in that bucket too.


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Re: Snake avoidance clinic? [Re: Gunther14] #6304875 05/20/16 11:15 AM
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Depending on how big he is I will buy him from you at the clinic. I he is over 3 feet I will buy him.

Re: Snake avoidance clinic? [Re: Gunther14] #6305885 05/21/16 01:38 AM
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Wal 1809 do you take any questions or concerns regarding your class

Re: Snake avoidance clinic? [Re: Gunther14] #6306790 05/22/16 03:46 AM
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He lost his head last night. He was right at 3'. Wife didn't like him in the garage. confused2 Not sure why.


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Re: Snake avoidance clinic? [Re: blanked] #6309874 05/24/16 08:29 PM
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Originally Posted By: blanked
Wal 1809 do you take any questions or concerns regarding your class


Absolutely! That is really what the forum is all about. How can I help?

Re: Snake avoidance clinic? [Re: Gunther14] #6310160 05/24/16 11:32 PM
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Ok thanks. I have been to several of your clinics and it looks like your training the trainer and the dog together where all the talking going on can be a distraction to the dog . I would like my dog more focused on the snake than all the other dogs, people and talking going on

A snake breaker I went to out of state had lots of help. He would have someone hand out a flyer when people paid with all the instructions on what was going on and how the dog was was to approach the snake at different set ups. Also exactly what the dog owner was suppose to do during the process

Another person he hired would keep all the dogs and people out of the way so there not interfering with the snake breaking. He would also apply the collar as the dogs turn came up

The third helper would walk the dogs Into the snake at 3 different scenarios. While the snake breaker was applying the collar when needed.

The last step is the dog owner would call the dog with a snake in between him and the dog with the flyer explaining exactly how to respond to the dog when the dog gets to you.

All of this is explained in detail on the flyer so no talking is going on . Dogs barking , people socializing are kept out of the training since they are out of site and the other helpers enforce what needs to be done

Re: Snake avoidance clinic? [Re: Gunther14] #6310633 05/25/16 01:23 PM
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Well this is a tough one to answer because I would be in direct opposition to another trainer. I am fairly confident I know who you are talking about and I don't want to contradict his opinion, creating animosity. He is a person whom I consider a friend. So I will just state my opinion and leave off anything other than what I have come to learn or feel correct.

Remembering dogs are one dimensional. They can only think of one thing at a time. When their senses (Sight sound smell) are filled with the snake, I can see the body language from above them. That is the time to press the transmitter button. I want the distractions, I want the noises, I prefer it all. When I am done, if that dog is focused on anything but the snake then something is bad wrong. They best have their tail tucked, butt dropped down, sucked in flanks, tongue hanging, breathing heavy and eyes wide like a light bulb and doing everything they can do to get away from that snake. It is at that point you should be able to drive a freight train through there and the dog still be afraid of that snake.

I also feel it is a much more natural setting where there is distraction. A good number of dogs get bit first rattle out of the box. Trucks are parked, dogs released to go pee, the owners are talking and gearing up for a hunt while the dogs are running off steam and they get bit. It is a similar distraction as at a clinic. They need to learn their way though these distractions. Look at it this way. If a dog chooses to pay attention to the distraction rather than avoiding a snake, then they need to go through the training again.


The last step is the dog owner would call the dog with a snake in between him and the dog with the flyer explaining exactly how to respond to the dog when the dog gets to you.

I grew up using this method. I rarely do it any longer. I think in a lot of situations it is ineffective, a waste of time and confusing for the dog. I am fortunate I have been blessed with clients that are the best of the best. Best Retrievers in Paige, Texas and Tioga retrievers in Aubrey, Texas and Oakwood Kennels in Brazoria, Texas to name just a few. Their training ability supersedes the ability of most. Years ago I looked like a fool using the old training method of calling the dog across the snake. It works well on dogs that are allowed to cheat all the time. Take one of Rody's, Angie's or Ron's dogs that have been trained properly their whole life. These dogs win the Masters on a regular basis. Then you train them to avoid snakes and give them a "Here" command to test them. You just put that dog into a catch 22 melt down situation. They want to follow the command without question but have this new obsticle, the rattlesnake. Usually they will step off line by a step or two. Other times thy will jump shoulder high over the snake. They want to follow the command but don't want the snake. When they get close to the snake the owner sees that as a failure. It isn't failure, it is training done right on both ends. I can now easily spot these dogs and know how to get them through without the catch 22. My new method has an easy flow to it, it is much quicker and a lot more easy on the dog. I don't want a dog competing in the masters wrestling over stepping offline or not. Thats isn't why that dog was brought to me. I want to train it to avoid snakes, not confuse it about commands and straight lines.

I am in the process of writing a short book on the science behind snake aversion/ avoidance training, although temporarily interrupted but the floods. My intentions are to stay here for 2 years and then retire. The book will be ready by then. I will be keeping my Texas route in the fall and early spring. Late spring I will be in the bus headed on a route west through the southwest states, up through northern Cali, east to Wyoming and then head for home. There are some things in the book that will change your mind about this training. You're asking the right questions, I just can't give out more yet as it will be in the book. Now mind you all, this isn't a book as in hardback production. I will make it available online. I am not doing it trying to make money. I just don't want others to take credit for what I have learned and developed over a 13 year career of snake avoidance training. I would imagine it will be available on PDF for free.

The main reason I am doing the book is career preservation. There are a lot of myths/misconceptions about the training. There is no secret I think the clicker trainers in California are a bunch of worthless boneheads. I place them in two categories. The first is a low down coyote praying on people do not have what it takes to train their dogs properly. They are using the fear and ignorance these people harbor for E collars and cashing in on those fears. They tell them the big bad trainers using collars are cruel, but we can teach your dog to avoid snakes with a clicker and not use a collar. ***My opinion>>>> They will serve no purpose other than to get dogs killed or injured. I have no doubt you can teach a dog a command and it follow the command with the clicker training, no doubt. The problem comes when a dog meets a snake and the clicker (Owner) is not around. Curiosity, because the dog didn't get hammered with the collar, will eventually win and the dog will get bit. I don't wish ill for anyone but I seriously dislike these idiots.

The second scenario is the trainers just don't know. Anyone can hang a sign out there and be the dog training guru. They may not have any clue how the K9 mind works. They see success in avoidance with the clicker and preach how it works. They may not have any bad intentions but have ZERO business teaching people a clicker is effective for snake avoidance. That is reckless and irresponsible to say the least.

Re: Snake avoidance clinic? [Re: Gunther14] #6311171 05/25/16 07:29 PM
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I've had my high octane red dog through Wayne's course twice. Once at 8 mos. and the 2nd at 3 yrs. The last time he tried to climb up the lead rope to tag Wayne after getting zapped. I'll tell you, that boy remembers! This dog I have spent a lot of time in working him through distractions and still having to pay attention to me. The cars, people, dogs, new scents, etc. have had no impact on his ability to put 2 and 2 together and get the gist of the program. As long as he either sees or smells a snake he will not go near it...and that includes a stretched out garden hose sometimes.

I found Wayne very approachable as far as questions and concerns, and don't really see a need for flyers or extra helpers. This doesn't seem like rocket science to me. The dog gets near something you don't want him to and you smoke his butt. I'm an Amish trainer, so it's not like my dog even knows what an ecollar is.

And lastly, it's great fun to see and visit w/some folks you haven't seen in awhile or only know through THF. I also like to see what reactions other dogs have to the training.


"Duck hunter's minds are like concrete. All mixed up and permanently set."
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