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Re: Fire TPWD Petition going to Gov Abbott
[Re: txbobcat]
#6278734
04/28/16 02:42 PM
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Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 5,044
Eland Slayer
THF Trophy Hunter
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THF Trophy Hunter
Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 5,044 |
From what I understand the ranch sold deer as well. My question is this Why not petetition for live testing?? You get Carter Smith fired and you will still have the same policies in place. I do not know any other option they had outside of this. What if some of the deer had CWD and he sold them to another ranch? Thse are questions I have about your position. They did sell deer to other ranches and did spread CWD. I really was a fan of TDA and most other wildlife related state groups until this all went down. I also have two cousins that are breeders and understand it well. If there were any "Gustapo" tactics it was the TDA and its cronies with all the "behind closed doors threats" that were made along the way. You are welcome to your opinion....but let's make one thing very clear. TPWD DOES NOT know how CWD is transmitted (nor does anyone else)...therefore it is not logical to say that Texas Mountain Ranch spread CWD. There is absolutely zero evidence to support that. Just because a place they sold a deer to tested positive does not prove this. There is a big difference between correlation and causation. How many thousands of wild free-range whitetails would test positive for CWD? We don't know...because they are not tested in any sizeable number.
Last edited by Eland Slayer; 04/28/16 02:44 PM.
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Re: Fire TPWD Petition going to Gov Abbott
[Re: txbobcat]
#6278762
04/28/16 03:00 PM
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Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 60,460
BOBO the Clown
kind of a big deal
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kind of a big deal
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 60,460 |
From what I understand the ranch sold deer as well. My question is this Why not petetition for live testing?? You get Carter Smith fired and you will still have the same policies in place. I do not know any other option they had outside of this. What if some of the deer had CWD and he sold them to another ranch? Thse are questions I have about your position. They did sell deer to other ranches and did spread CWD. I really was a fan of TDA and most other wildlife related state groups until this all went down. I also have two cousins that are breeders and understand it well. If there were any "Gustapo" tactics it was the TDA and its cronies with all the "behind closed doors threats" that were made along the way. This is about TWPD actions from a director level, not GW, support staff, biologists etc. This is about the fact he violated the law to push an agenda, this is also about why did the State Legislature branch have to step in. When state legislature has to step in that means someone exceeded their limits of authority. TDA is just calling a spade a spade. This was 100% TAHC jusidiction not TPWD, if you can't run a agency with bias and ignore laws bad things happen. When you do people take note, and will precede this exact way. What we could of learned and what we will learn from Medina will be interesting being that breeder never imported a live out of state deer. Are you not curious as to how siblings and twins(born in that facility) can test positive and mother didn't? Personal thoughts on an industry or breeders or HF are irrelevant to the thread. You either support the action of the head of TPWD or disagree.
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Re: Fire TPWD Petition going to Gov Abbott
[Re: Bowman24]
#6279442
04/28/16 11:37 PM
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Joined: Jun 2005
Posts: 2,685
txbobcat
Veteran Tracker
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Veteran Tracker
Joined: Jun 2005
Posts: 2,685 |
I didn't post any thoughts about breeders or HF I merely said the TDA group lost my support after their actions/threats/etc after this all broke loose. There were mistakes on both sides but TDA seems to be the one to keep pressing their agenda instead of trying to work through the issues the correct way.
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Re: Fire TPWD Petition going to Gov Abbott
[Re: txbobcat]
#6279465
04/28/16 11:49 PM
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Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 60,460
BOBO the Clown
kind of a big deal
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kind of a big deal
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 60,460 |
I didn't post any thoughts about breeders or HF I merely said the TDA group lost my support after their actions/threats/etc after this all broke loose. There were mistakes on both sides but TDA seems to be the one to keep pressing their agenda instead of trying to work through the issues the correct way. Actions and threats you mean like having to get state legislation involved to define justification? Sorry what does TAHC do? If TDA breaks the law then I would support you in a campaign for dismissal of the director The HF and Breeder comment was general info for the thread. Threads not about the industry it's about TPWD executive actions
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Re: Fire TPWD Petition going to Gov Abbott
[Re: Bowman24]
#6279477
04/28/16 11:58 PM
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Joined: Mar 2009
Posts: 4,424
jeffbird
Extreme Tracker
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Extreme Tracker
Joined: Mar 2009
Posts: 4,424 |
Be careful what you ask for. Carter Smith brings a broad view to the table in that position. A replacement could end up being much worse overall for hunting and fishing interests in this state, as well as the state parks and WMA's. He has done a good job holding onto the budget for TPWD and standing up for hunting on public lands. This next session will see major cuts to budgets everywhere and shutting down access to parks and WMA's is always a target high on the cutting list. Also pounding on the tables yelling about how deer farming was treated will bring legislative attention to the subject and there are plenty who would be happy to see it shut down completely - even in the hunting community as is often pointed out in this forum.
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Re: Fire TPWD Petition going to Gov Abbott
[Re: jeffbird]
#6279485
04/29/16 12:04 AM
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Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 60,460
BOBO the Clown
kind of a big deal
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kind of a big deal
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 60,460 |
Be careful what you ask for. Carter Smith brings a broad view to the table in that position. A replacement could end up being much worse overall for hunting and fishing interests in this state, as well as the state parks and WMA's. He has done a good job holding onto the budget for TPWD and standing up for hunting on public lands. This next session will see major cuts to budgets everywhere and shutting down access to parks and WMA's is always a target high on the cutting list. Also pounding on the tables yelling about how deer farming was treated will bring legislative attention to the subject and there are plenty who would be happy to see it shut down completely - even in the hunting community as is often pointed out in this forum. Very very true.
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Re: Fire TPWD Petition going to Gov Abbott
[Re: jeffbird]
#6279901
04/29/16 12:16 PM
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Joined: Jun 2005
Posts: 2,685
txbobcat
Veteran Tracker
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Veteran Tracker
Joined: Jun 2005
Posts: 2,685 |
Be careful what you ask for. Carter Smith brings a broad view to the table in that position. A replacement could end up being much worse overall for hunting and fishing interests in this state, as well as the state parks and WMA's. He has done a good job holding onto the budget for TPWD and standing up for hunting on public lands. This next session will see major cuts to budgets everywhere and shutting down access to parks and WMA's is always a target high on the cutting list. Also pounding on the tables yelling about how deer farming was treated will bring legislative attention to the subject and there are plenty who would be happy to see it shut down completely - even in the hunting community as is often pointed out in this forum. Yep I think in the long run the more TDA keeps it in the limelight the more it will hurt them in the long run.
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Re: Fire TPWD Petition going to Gov Abbott
[Re: txbobcat]
#6280259
04/29/16 04:15 PM
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Joined: Jul 2013
Posts: 7,179
therancher
THF Trophy Hunter
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THF Trophy Hunter
Joined: Jul 2013
Posts: 7,179 |
When, as the CEO of the states wildlife agency, you've proven that you consider your job includes ignoring science, and trampling personal property rights (I'm talking about demanding that people not be present on their own land), and keeping your protocol decisions hidden from the public you serve, you've proven to me that you need to be replaced.
Someone else deserves to drive the truck. Period.
Crotchety old bastidge
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Re: Fire TPWD Petition going to Gov Abbott
[Re: therancher]
#6280379
04/29/16 06:10 PM
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Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 5,044
Eland Slayer
THF Trophy Hunter
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THF Trophy Hunter
Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 5,044 |
When, as the CEO of the states wildlife agency, you've proven that you consider your job includes ignoring science, and trampling personal property rights (I'm talking about demanding that people not be present on their own land), and keeping your protocol decisions hidden from the public you serve, you've proven to me that you need to be replaced.
Someone else deserves to drive the truck. Period.
+1
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Re: Fire TPWD Petition going to Gov Abbott
[Re: therancher]
#6280845
04/30/16 01:23 AM
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Joined: Jun 2005
Posts: 2,685
txbobcat
Veteran Tracker
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Veteran Tracker
Joined: Jun 2005
Posts: 2,685 |
When, as the CEO of the states wildlife agency, you've proven that you consider your job includes ignoring science, and trampling personal property rights (I'm talking about demanding that people not be present on their own land), and keeping your protocol decisions hidden from the public you serve, you've proven to me that you need to be replaced.
Someone else deserves to drive the truck. Period.
Same can be said for the TDA side of it. They lost a lot of public support over the handling of this.
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Re: Fire TPWD Petition going to Gov Abbott
[Re: txbobcat]
#6286857
05/04/16 06:47 PM
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Joined: Jul 2013
Posts: 7,179
therancher
THF Trophy Hunter
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THF Trophy Hunter
Joined: Jul 2013
Posts: 7,179 |
When, as the CEO of the states wildlife agency, you've proven that you consider your job includes ignoring science, and trampling personal property rights (I'm talking about demanding that people not be present on their own land), and keeping your protocol decisions hidden from the public you serve, you've proven to me that you need to be replaced.
Someone else deserves to drive the truck. Period.
Same can be said for the TDA side of it. They lost a lot of public support over the handling of this. How did they "handle this" that cost them public support?
Crotchety old bastidge
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Re: Fire TPWD Petition going to Gov Abbott
[Re: Bowman24]
#6286973
05/04/16 08:25 PM
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Joined: May 2008
Posts: 2,307
BowsnRods
Veteran Tracker
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Veteran Tracker
Joined: May 2008
Posts: 2,307 |
TDA has not lost public support in their quest for fair and equal treatment of ALL PROPERTY OWNERS and continues to stand as the voice for all the little people which I am one of those little people. I believe in giving the wildlife a chance to thrive and provide greater opportunity's to our children and their children. I will continue to support TDA! just my two cents!
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Re: Fire TPWD Petition going to Gov Abbott
[Re: therancher]
#6288699
05/05/16 11:20 PM
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Joined: Jun 2005
Posts: 2,685
txbobcat
Veteran Tracker
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Veteran Tracker
Joined: Jun 2005
Posts: 2,685 |
[quote=therancher]When, as the CEO of the states wildlife agency, you've proven that you consider your job includes ignoring science, and trampling personal property rights (I'm talking about demanding that people not be present on their own land), and keeping your protocol decisions hidden from the public you serve, you've proven to me that you need to be replaced.
Someone else deserves to drive the truck. Period.
Same can be said for the TDA side of it. They lost a lot of public support over the handling of this. How did they "handle this" that cost them public support? [/quote Ask around. Plenty of "closed door" TDA meetings (like you say the state did) with a boatload of threats made in those pointed at state officials. Like I said I have two cousins that are breeders and they have had some great info. Even they are embarrassed by some of the TDA moves on this. And to the next post down deer breeding in general has definitely taken a hit with all the publicity on their operations and TDA keeping it stirred up. If you think TDA really is for the "little guys" you definitely are drunk.
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Re: Fire TPWD Petition going to Gov Abbott
[Re: jeffbird]
#6288756
05/05/16 11:50 PM
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Joined: Nov 2010
Posts: 27,091
Nogalus Prairie
THF Celebrity
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THF Celebrity
Joined: Nov 2010
Posts: 27,091 |
Be careful what you ask for. Carter Smith brings a broad view to the table in that position. A replacement could end up being much worse overall for hunting and fishing interests in this state, as well as the state parks and WMA's. He has done a good job holding onto the budget for TPWD and standing up for hunting on public lands. This next session will see major cuts to budgets everywhere and shutting down access to parks and WMA's is always a target high on the cutting list. Also pounding on the tables yelling about how deer farming was treated will bring legislative attention to the subject and there are plenty who would be happy to see it shut down completely - even in the hunting community as is often pointed out in this forum.
I learned long ago you can't reason someone out of something they don't reason themselves into.
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Re: Fire TPWD Petition going to Gov Abbott
[Re: Bowman24]
#6288893
05/06/16 01:15 AM
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Joined: May 2008
Posts: 2,307
BowsnRods
Veteran Tracker
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Veteran Tracker
Joined: May 2008
Posts: 2,307 |
Ok txbobcat, do you think you as an individual can accomplish anything when dealing with a large scaled organization such as TPWD, you are only one person and do you think that they feel your suggestions or opinion as one person really matters. Do you txbobcat have the financial means as one person to challenge a large scaled organization like TPWD. I normally don't get offended so easy but when you refer to me being intoxicated, I think maybe you need to take a step back and see the big picture. I have been a member of TDA for 17 years, since the beginning. I have meet more people in this organization like me, the little guy that only want their rights protected and their voice heard.
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Re: Fire TPWD Petition going to Gov Abbott
[Re: BowsnRods]
#6288923
05/06/16 01:50 AM
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Joined: Jun 2005
Posts: 2,685
txbobcat
Veteran Tracker
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Veteran Tracker
Joined: Jun 2005
Posts: 2,685 |
Ok txbobcat, do you think you as an individual can accomplish anything when dealing with a large scaled organization such as TPWD, you are only one person and do you think that they feel your suggestions or opinion as one person really matters. Do you txbobcat have the financial means as one person to challenge a large scaled organization like TPWD. I normally don't get offended so easy but when you refer to me being intoxicated, I think maybe you need to take a step back and see the big picture. I have been a member of TDA for 17 years, since the beginning. I have meet more people in this organization like me, the little guy that only want their rights protected and their voice heard. Ok keep sending in your $$. For me I won't be spending any more with them.
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Re: Fire TPWD Petition going to Gov Abbott
[Re: Bowman24]
#6289105
05/06/16 06:04 AM
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Joined: Jan 2011
Posts: 19,498
Erathkid
THF Celebrity
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THF Celebrity
Joined: Jan 2011
Posts: 19,498 |
According to the petition by mr. Warren "rural Texas land has lost value", due to the actions of TPWD. What a crock. Tell that to the county tax assessor in any county of Texas. He or she will laugh at you.
Last edited by Erathkid; 05/06/16 06:06 AM.
Life is too short, as is. Don't chance it. Don't text and drive.
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Re: Fire TPWD Petition going to Gov Abbott
[Re: txbobcat]
#6291254
05/08/16 02:05 PM
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Joined: Jul 2013
Posts: 7,179
therancher
THF Trophy Hunter
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THF Trophy Hunter
Joined: Jul 2013
Posts: 7,179 |
[quote=therancher]When, as the CEO of the states wildlife agency, you've proven that you consider your job includes ignoring science, and trampling personal property rights (I'm talking about demanding that people not be present on their own land), and keeping your protocol decisions hidden from the public you serve, you've proven to me that you need to be replaced.
Someone else deserves to drive the truck. Period.
Same can be said for the TDA side of it. They lost a lot of public support over the handling of this. How did they "handle this" that cost them public support? [/quote Ask around. Plenty of "closed door" TDA meetings (like you say the state did) with a boatload of threats made in those pointed at state officials. Like I said I have two cousins that are breeders and they have had some great info. Even they are embarrassed by some of the TDA moves on this. And to the next post down deer breeding in general has definitely taken a hit with all the publicity on their operations and TDA keeping it stirred up. If you think TDA really is for the "little guys" you definitely are drunk. I'm not a member of TDA but I'm probably more in tune to what they have done and what tpwd has done than you are. I attended a meeting last June that the TDA invited the public to. I've attended two public meetings that tahc. Tpwd, and agrilife organized where TDA was well represented. Just attended a meeting with EWA (I'm a member) that had plenty of TDA and tahc and tpwd folks attending. I haven't seen any public loss of support due to anything TDA has done. Quite contrary I've seen public support grow due to their actions.
Crotchety old bastidge
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Re: Fire TPWD Petition going to Gov Abbott
[Re: Bowman24]
#6291407
05/08/16 05:14 PM
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Joined: Jun 2014
Posts: 53
Aim Small
Outdoorsman
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Outdoorsman
Joined: Jun 2014
Posts: 53 |
.
Last edited by Aim Small; 05/08/16 05:16 PM.
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Re: Fire TPWD Petition going to Gov Abbott
[Re: therancher]
#6291734
05/09/16 12:43 AM
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Joined: Jun 2005
Posts: 2,685
txbobcat
Veteran Tracker
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Veteran Tracker
Joined: Jun 2005
Posts: 2,685 |
[quote=therancher]When, as the CEO of the states wildlife agency, you've proven that you consider your job includes ignoring science, and trampling personal property rights (I'm talking about demanding that people not be present on their own land), and keeping your protocol decisions hidden from the public you serve, you've proven to me that you need to be replaced.
Someone else deserves to drive the truck. Period.
Same can be said for the TDA side of it. They lost a lot of public support over the handling of this. How did they "handle this" that cost them public support? [/quote Ask around. Plenty of "closed door" TDA meetings (like you say the state did) with a boatload of threats made in those pointed at state officials. Like I said I have two cousins that are breeders and they have had some great info. Even they are embarrassed by some of the TDA moves on this. And to the next post down deer breeding in general has definitely taken a hit with all the publicity on their operations and TDA keeping it stirred up. If you think TDA really is for the "little guys" you definitely are drunk. I'm not a member of TDA but I'm probably more in tune to what they have done and what tpwd has done than you are. I attended a meeting last June that the TDA invited the public to. I've attended two public meetings that tahc. Tpwd, and agrilife organized where TDA was well represented. Just attended a meeting with EWA (I'm a member) that had plenty of TDA and tahc and tpwd folks attending. I haven't seen any public loss of support due to anything TDA has done. Quite contrary I've seen public support grow due to their actions. Why aren't you a member?
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Re: Fire TPWD Petition going to Gov Abbott
[Re: Eland Slayer]
#6293185
05/10/16 04:18 AM
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Joined: Oct 2013
Posts: 351
ImBillT
Bird Dog
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Bird Dog
Joined: Oct 2013
Posts: 351 |
From what I understand the ranch sold deer as well. My question is this Why not petetition for live testing?? You get Carter Smith fired and you will still have the same policies in place. I do not know any other option they had outside of this. What if some of the deer had CWD and he sold them to another ranch? Thse are questions I have about your position. They did sell deer to other ranches and did spread CWD. I really was a fan of TDA and most other wildlife related state groups until this all went down. I also have two cousins that are breeders and understand it well. If there were any "Gustapo" tactics it was the TDA and its cronies with all the "behind closed doors threats" that were made along the way. You are welcome to your opinion....but let's make one thing very clear. TPWD DOES NOT know how CWD is transmitted (nor does anyone else)...therefore it is not logical to say that Texas Mountain Ranch spread CWD. There is absolutely zero evidence to support that. Just because a place they sold a deer to tested positive does not prove this. There is a big difference between correlation and causation. How many thousands of wild free-range whitetails would test positive for CWD? We don't know...because they are not tested in any sizeable number. So because you don't know exactly how a DISEASE is spread, the person moving infected animals from place to place is innocent of spreading it? Sure it's possible, but let's stop the movement and kill the diseased now and figure out how it's spread later. I'm all for live testing. I'm all for open meetings. Yeah maybe the ranchers signed up for MLD, but that doesn't mean TPWD shouldn't do everything possible to minimize the impact of what their doing, and it doesn't mean their shouldn't be transparency in what a public agency does with public money to "public" property.
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Re: Fire TPWD Petition going to Gov Abbott
[Re: BOBO the Clown]
#6293198
05/10/16 04:36 AM
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Joined: Oct 2013
Posts: 351
ImBillT
Bird Dog
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Bird Dog
Joined: Oct 2013
Posts: 351 |
From what I understand the ranch sold deer as well. My question is this Why not petetition for live testing?? You get Carter Smith fired and you will still have the same policies in place. I do not know any other option they had outside of this. What if some of the deer had CWD and he sold them to another ranch? Thse are questions I have about your position. They did sell deer to other ranches and did spread CWD. I really was a fan of TDA and most other wildlife related state groups until this all went down. I also have two cousins that are breeders and understand it well. If there were any "Gustapo" tactics it was the TDA and its cronies with all the "behind closed doors threats" that were made along the way. This is about TWPD actions from a director level, not GW, support staff, biologists etc. This is about the fact he violated the law to push an agenda, this is also about why did the State Legislature branch have to step in. When state legislature has to step in that means someone exceeded their limits of authority. TDA is just calling a spade a spade. This was 100% TAHC jusidiction not TPWD, if you can't run a agency with bias and ignore laws bad things happen. When you do people take note, and will precede this exact way. What we could of learned and what we will learn from Medina will be interesting being that breeder never imported a live out of state deer. Are you not curious as to how siblings and twins(born in that facility) can test positive and mother didn't? Personal thoughts on an industry or breeders or HF are irrelevant to the thread. You either support the action of the head of TPWD or disagree. It would be interesting to know exactly why a mother doesn't test positive but her children don't, however I'm not sure why that should be strange. It's not a genetic disorder. It's a prion disease. While some prion diseases, like hoof and mouth if I remember correctly, are contagious without the animals eating each other or passing blood from one another, most, or at least the most prominent, have something to do with eating something. Because it does exist in wild herds it is likely that it is contagious without one deer consuming another one. Still, I would really want to examine the protein sources of high protein feed. I don't mean what the bag says either, I mean the packing plant. Perhaps some animal protein sources being slipped in somewhere are causing a problem. Perhaps that's incredibly unlikely. I wouldn't know.
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