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#6262676 - 04/16/16 11:09 AM Why not just use 4 shot groups?
603Country Offline
THF Trophy Hunter

Registered: 07/03/12
Posts: 5598
Loc: Central Texas
I have this nice little Ruger Hawkeye that Derrick at Horizon rebarreled and tuned up for me. It really shoots great, and I noticed when working up loads for different bullets (223), that it shot the 40 gr Nosler BT, the 55 gr Nosler BT, and the 65 gr Sierra GK into the same approximate POI. Can't get much better than that. Sooooo, this morning I decided to do a little shooting and I grabbed a box of all three bullet weights. The first shot, the 40 grainer, went right where it should have. Second shot, the 55 grainer, went right next to it. Then the 65 grainer went right next to them. Nice. Another 40 grainer shared one of the holes from previous shots. Looking good. That's 4 shots, which leaves me looking at the 'curse of the 5th shot'. So far, I have a group of about 5/8 inch. Sadly, I put the 5th bullet about 1/2 inch right of the group. I knew I pulled it. Dang. Then I put 2 more of the 40's right into the original group of 4 shots.

Side note: If I discount the 55's and the 65, the 4 40 gr bullets went into about 1/2 inch, and that's mostly what I shoot. Maybe I should shoot a 5th 40 grainer. Naaah.

Oh well.

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#6262721 - 04/16/16 12:03 PM Re: Why not just use 4 shot groups? [Re: 603Country]
Nogalus Prairie Online   content
THF Celebrity

Registered: 11/22/10
Posts: 22645
Loc: Corsicana
It's a keeper and a half anyway. Rifles that shoot different bullets the same or close to the same are real jewels. up
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Originally Posted By: Russ79
I learned long ago you can't reason someone out of something they don't reason themselves into.



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#6262772 - 04/16/16 01:33 PM Re: Why not just use 4 shot groups? [Re: 603Country]
ImTheReasonDovesMourn Offline
Pro Tracker

Registered: 08/04/12
Posts: 1733
Loc: Greenville, TX
It seems like I always pull the 5th shot when I have something good going. It happened a few times today mad

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Originally Posted By: Busheler
Nothing wears out a scope,like looking through one!..................

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#6262866 - 04/16/16 03:40 PM Re: Why not just use 4 shot groups? [Re: 603Country]
charlesb Offline
Pro Tracker

Registered: 04/07/10
Posts: 1499
Loc: West Texas mountains
I shoot 5 shot groups for target or varmint guns, 3 shot groups for big game rifles.
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#6262957 - 04/16/16 05:03 PM Re: Why not just use 4 shot groups? [Re: 603Country]
maximum Offline
Pro Tracker

Registered: 09/30/09
Posts: 1713
i don't shoot competitively, and only
hunt with my rifles so i look for the
first shot out of a cold bore.

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#6263000 - 04/16/16 05:31 PM Re: Why not just use 4 shot groups? [Re: 603Country]
Ritter Offline


Registered: 02/15/09
Posts: 272
Loc: Southern Oklahoma
It really depends on what you expect the rifle to do.

If it's a dedicated hunting rifle then a two shot group, cold bore and follow up will be a good indicator of what the rifle is capable of. Doesn't really matter if you plan to hunt over a feeder at 100 yds or up in the mountains with long shots. You just have to shoot a lot of two shot groups to know for sure where those two shots will go.

If you shoot PRS, benchrest, F class or any other format or if you just enjoy target shooting then you need to shoot longer strings, 5+. You have to know what the rifle does as the barrel begins to heat up. If it starts to string shots vertically or throw flyers it usually means there's a problem with the ammo consistency or there's stress somewhere in the rifle causing the change of impact.

If you know the rifle is capable of accurate & precise long shot strings then it gives you the opportunity to fine tune your shooting skills.

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#6263029 - 04/16/16 06:05 PM Re: Why not just use 4 shot groups? [Re: 603Country]
603Country Offline
THF Trophy Hunter

Registered: 07/03/12
Posts: 5598
Loc: Central Texas
Well, you guys are all right, but maybe you are missing the point. First, I'm quite happy that Horizon has equipped me with a 223 that shoots great and will put all those different weight bullets into the same spot. That's great. What is not so great is that the 5th shot in a 5 shot group is, to me, the toughest shot to make, as I once again showed.

Must confess...I fear the 5th shot. There, I said it.

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#6263032 - 04/16/16 06:08 PM Re: Why not just use 4 shot groups? [Re: 603Country]
RHutch Offline
Bird Dog

Registered: 05/25/13
Posts: 447
Loc: Frisco
Then shoot 6 shot groups and fear the sixth....may give you a clean 5. confused2

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#6263044 - 04/16/16 06:19 PM Re: Why not just use 4 shot groups? [Re: 603Country]
603Country Offline
THF Trophy Hunter

Registered: 07/03/12
Posts: 5598
Loc: Central Texas
Dang! Why didn't I think of that?

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#6263075 - 04/16/16 06:41 PM Re: Why not just use 4 shot groups? [Re: 603Country]
FiremanJG Offline
THF Celebrity

Registered: 12/16/08
Posts: 21747
Loc: Wolfe City, TX
What Ritter stated in absolutely true. Good opinion, that I completely agree with. Yet I will mention an old saying.

3 shots test the load
4 shots test the rifle
5 shots test the rifleman

I will say I believe that is cumulative.
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#6263158 - 04/16/16 07:36 PM Re: Why not just use 4 shot groups? [Re: 603Country]
HorizonFirearms Offline
Pro Tracker

Registered: 05/05/10
Posts: 1651
Loc: College Station, Texas
Good shooting. What I think people are missing on this deal is you are switching back and forth with different loads of ammo. A lot of times when you do that the bore needs a fouler to burn the residue between the various loads. One other thing I would like to point out is that is a essentially a sporter barrel that is 1/8 twists shooting 40-65 grainers like that. Again I think thats pretty solid shooting.
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#6263265 - 04/16/16 08:53 PM Re: Why not just use 4 shot groups? [Re: 603Country]
603Country Offline
THF Trophy Hunter

Registered: 07/03/12
Posts: 5598
Loc: Central Texas
The longer I shoot this rifle, the better it shoots. I can't say whether it's me or the rifle. And I don't clean it much. Haven't had to. For a rifle with a skinny barrel, it's a sweet shooter.

And...it saved me about $1000. I was going to buy a turreted scope for it so that I could adjust the clicks for each bullet. But I don't have to do that since the 3 bullets I load all shoot to the same spot.

But there's still that problem with the 5th shot after 4 shots land in a tight group.

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#6263495 - 04/17/16 06:49 AM Re: Why not just use 4 shot groups? [Re: 603Country]
poisonivie Offline


Registered: 03/10/09
Posts: 7825
Loc: Bridgeport, Tx
Be like me. Just admit you suck and move on. smile
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