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#6261393 - 04/15/16 10:38 AM flyers
colt45 Offline
THF Trophy Hunter

Registered: 08/19/06
Posts: 5383
Loc: bastrop county
working up a load, first 2 touching, then a 4" flyer, what should I look at first?
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#6261411 - 04/15/16 10:49 AM Re: flyers [Re: colt45]
ChadTRG42 Online   happy
THF Trophy Hunter

Registered: 09/16/09
Posts: 9397
Loc: Lewisville, TX
Need lots more info, first. Explain your set up- rifle, stock (bedded or not), caliber, ammo, barrel contour, how are you shooting (off sand bags, bipod, lead sled, front and rear rest), how you shot the group (all 3 in a row without coming of the rifle, or shot 2, came off gun to shoot #3, etc), cleaning info (when did you clean last, is barrel fouled in, or shooting on a fouled barrel), did you use oil in barrel (very important!!), 100 yards, AR-10 or AR-15 and shot #3 bolt locked to the rear? Lots of things cause fliers. More details will be needed to help narrow down what caused your flier.
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#6261422 - 04/15/16 10:55 AM Re: flyers [Re: colt45]
Big Fitz Offline
Veteran Tracker

Registered: 12/06/09
Posts: 2007
Loc: McKinney, TX
I sometimes get 3 flyers in my 5 shot groups. rofl
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Originally Posted By: syncerus
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#6261502 - 04/15/16 11:47 AM Re: flyers [Re: colt45]
colt45 Offline
THF Trophy Hunter

Registered: 08/19/06
Posts: 5383
Loc: bastrop county
ar15, fouled barrel, no oil #3 locked bolt, shooting off Caldwell front rest w/rear sandbag, never came off rifle doing the shoot. it is a new barrel with about 40rds down the tube
_________________________
hold on Newt, we got a runaway

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#6261787 - 04/15/16 03:20 PM Re: flyers [Re: colt45]
ChadTRG42 Online   happy
THF Trophy Hunter

Registered: 09/16/09
Posts: 9397
Loc: Lewisville, TX
A lot of the times your last shot on an AR when the bolt locks to the rear will have a point of impact shift. Where was this POI shift? If I am shooting for groups in an AR platform and want to shoot a 5 round group, I will load 6 (or 7) rounds. This allows the 5th round shot to have the same recoil impulse as all the other rounds. If I shoot 5 rounds and load only 5 rounds, the 5th shot will lock the bolt to the rear, which changes up the recoil impulse effecting the shot. You see this often. The same thing goes for the first shot. Often times your first round in an AR is chambered by inserting a mag with the bolt locked to the rear, and releasing the bolt forward. This is different than when the rifle loads itself during firing. Some AR's will have a POI shift on the first round, and the remaining rounds will shoot into a small group, but with a slight POI shift from the first round. When shooting for groups in an AR, I note what the first round does in relation to the other 4 or 5 shots and see if there is a POI shift on this first round. If I notice a shift, then I discount the first shot in my all my group data, and use shots 2-6 as my gauge on how well the load shoots. And I will load an extra round so the bolt does not lock to the rear in that group. So I normally load 7 rounds in an AR for shooting groups- 1 round for the first shot, and 5 for my test group, and the 7th round to chamber so as to not change the recoil impulse and effect the group.

But you can not make a conclusion of how it shoots based off of only 3 rounds. Shoot it enough to see what the gun tells you and if there is any POI shifts with the first or last shot (when the bolt locks to the rear).

Also, shoot good ammo through it. If you are running cheap foreign made FMJ ammo with crappy powders, you get what you get. Also, test different bullets and/or powders, or different factory ammo. I have 2 AR-15's in 223/5.56. Both rifles are night and day different on what they like. One is a high end custom match AR with a high end barrel. It will shoot same hole with tuned ammo to it. My other one is a $750 AR that was a basic AR with decent mil spec components. It's a 3/4 moa shooter with tuned ammo. When I feed the 60 grain V-max match grade ammo for the low end AR into my custom AR, it shoots it in about 3"-4" groups at 100. It was so bad I thought the match grade AR was messed up. I started over and changed the powder up and kept the 60 grain V-max, and it shrunk groups to nearly same hole. AR's can be very strange on what they like from rifle to rifle.
_________________________

www.DallasReloads.com
Type 01 and Type 06 FFL

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#6262237 - 04/15/16 09:23 PM Re: flyers [Re: Big Fitz]
fgdn Offline
Pro Tracker

Registered: 12/10/06
Posts: 1525
Loc: TX
Originally Posted By: Big Fitz
I sometimes get 3 flyers in my 5 shot groups. rofl


see, now that's just funny

clap
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Life's journey is not to arrive at the grave safely in a well preserved body, but rather to skid in sideways, totally worn out, shouting.......holy kaka.....What a Ride!

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#6262274 - 04/15/16 09:51 PM Re: flyers [Re: ChadTRG42]
FiremanJG Offline
THF Celebrity

Registered: 12/16/08
Posts: 17893
Loc: Wolfe City, TX
Another great explanation, Chad. up
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#6262431 - 04/16/16 06:47 AM Re: flyers [Re: ChadTRG42]
colt45 Offline
THF Trophy Hunter

Registered: 08/19/06
Posts: 5383
Loc: bastrop county
Originally Posted By: ChadTRG42
A lot of the times your last shot on an AR when the bolt locks to the rear will have a point of impact shift. Where was this POI shift? If I am shooting for groups in an AR platform and want to shoot a 5 round group, I will load 6 (or 7) rounds. This allows the 5th round shot to have the same recoil impulse as all the other rounds. If I shoot 5 rounds and load only 5 rounds, the 5th shot will lock the bolt to the rear, which changes up the recoil impulse effecting the shot. You see this often. The same thing goes for the first shot. Often times your first round in an AR is chambered by inserting a mag with the bolt locked to the rear, and releasing the bolt forward. This is different than when the rifle loads itself during firing. Some AR's will have a POI shift on the first round, and the remaining rounds will shoot into a small group, but with a slight POI shift from the first round. When shooting for groups in an AR, I note what the first round does in relation to the other 4 or 5 shots and see if there is a POI shift on this first round. If I notice a shift, then I discount the first shot in my all my group data, and use shots 2-6 as my gauge on how well the load shoots. And I will load an extra round so the bolt does not lock to the rear in that group. So I normally load 7 rounds in an AR for shooting groups- 1 round for the first shot, and 5 for my test group, and the 7th round to chamber so as to not change the recoil impulse and effect the group.

But you can not make a conclusion of how it shoots based off of only 3 rounds. Shoot it enough to see what the gun tells you and if there is any POI shifts with the first or last shot (when the bolt locks to the rear).

Also, shoot good ammo through it. If you are running cheap foreign made FMJ ammo with crappy powders, you get what you get. Also, test different bullets and/or powders, or different factory ammo. I have 2 AR-15's in 223/5.56. Both rifles are night and day different on what they like. One is a high end custom match AR with a high end barrel. It will shoot same hole with tuned ammo to it. My other one is a $750 AR that was a basic AR with decent mil spec components. It's a 3/4 moa shooter with tuned ammo. When I feed the 60 grain V-max match grade ammo for the low end AR into my custom AR, it shoots it in about 3"-4" groups at 100. It was so bad I thought the match grade AR was messed up. I started over and changed the powder up and kept the 60 grain V-max, and it shrunk groups to nearly same hole. AR's can be very strange on what they like from rifle to rifle.
thanks Chad, I am reloading and testing 3 different loads (powder & bullets ect) will try loading the mag with more bullets.
_________________________
hold on Newt, we got a runaway

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#6262567 - 04/16/16 09:34 AM Re: flyers [Re: colt45]
ChadTRG42 Online   happy
THF Trophy Hunter

Registered: 09/16/09
Posts: 9397
Loc: Lewisville, TX
Also, test 1 powder and 1 bullet combo thoroughly. If you just "pick" a charge to try, you're hoping you get lucky on that load. Load some up like a ladder test with 1 powder and 1 bullet combo at a time.
_________________________

www.DallasReloads.com
Type 01 and Type 06 FFL

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#6263557 - 04/17/16 07:56 AM Re: flyers [Re: ChadTRG42]
colt45 Offline
THF Trophy Hunter

Registered: 08/19/06
Posts: 5383
Loc: bastrop county
Originally Posted By: ChadTRG42
Also, test 1 powder and 1 bullet combo thoroughly. If you just "pick" a charge to try, you're hoping you get lucky on that load. Load some up like a ladder test with 1 powder and 1 bullet combo at a time.
I do the ladder thing starting low
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