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#6240161 - 03/29/16 09:07 AM Casting Question
hunting_guy Offline
Woodsman

Registered: 09/09/15
Posts: 163
Loc: Central Texas
So I've been working really hard with Buck on left backs and right backs, and he has those down 100%. A few days ago, I switched to the mini-T and started doing overs. He does great on left overs, but is having some trouble with right overs. I'm not sure what the difference is to him, but he will only make a successful cast on the right over about 50% of the time, where he's 100% on left overs. I've done about 3 sessions with him so far where I've casted him on overs using about 18 bumpers between the back pile and 1st & 3rd base. That's 3 bumpers on 1st, 3 bumpers on 3rd, and the remaining bumpers on the back pile for FTP between overs.

I watch him very closely on those right overs and immediately stop him if I cast and he heads the wrong direction. I moved closer to the pile last night when he started having trouble and it seemed to help.

I just want to make sure that I'm not hurting anything by continuously stopping and correcting him if he heads the wrong direction on a cast until he goes the right direction. Or, should I call him back to heel and send him again?


Edited by hunting_guy (03/29/16 09:09 AM)
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#6240493 - 03/29/16 02:06 PM Re: Casting Question [Re: hunting_guy]
Leonardo Offline
Extreme Tracker

Registered: 01/03/08
Posts: 4662
Loc: Wise County
Not an expert by any means but I would think continually stopping the dog will eventually create momentum issues. I would figure out how to get successful cast on the first try. Mark the pile each time, move closer, don't put a left pile out, make the pile visible(white bumpers instead of orange) or anything else you can think of that might help. Use two hands and walk in the direction of your cast.

Are you alternating left/back with right/over vs right/back with right over which might lead to anticipating the cast? Most people tend to cast too fast. Also I teach the cast by doing it multiple times in a row. I will do three left/back then three right/over, then three right/back followed by three left/over. Once I am 100% the dog understands every cast will I alternate directions at my discretion.

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#6240657 - 03/29/16 04:31 PM Re: Casting Question [Re: hunting_guy]
maximumintensityretriever Offline
Tracker

Registered: 04/16/13
Posts: 512
Loc: Longview, Texas
If you are sending from your side and stopping the dog then you are on single T and not mini T. In mini T the dog should be in front finish facing you and you would go through all the casts making sure that the dog understands each cast and the difference between overs and backs. In this drill you would call back and recast. Have you done this?

Another question...you say when the dog goes the wrong direction. Is the dog turning the right way and digging back? If so just stop with the whistle, tweet in and recast. Is the dog watching you through the entire cast. Some dogs have trouble at this stage because the don't watch the whole cast and go as soon as you move. Casts need to be ultra slow at this point with verbal restraint and emphasis on watching you. All of this should be cleaned up on mini T before moving to single and double T. Don't be afraid to stop the dog. This is where the dog starts learning about attrition. You are forcing on a known location anyway but if done right popping shouldn't develop. You mentioned your dog did better when you moved closer. This is because distance erodes control. Your dog should be about 5 yards in front of you in mini T so this should not be an issue.
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#6240659 - 03/29/16 04:36 PM Re: Casting Question [Re: hunting_guy]
Buzzsaw Offline
THF Trophy Hunter

Registered: 06/29/11
Posts: 5023
Loc: Frisco, Texas
I would always take a step in the direction required, then give the command. she would immediately start in the correct direction watching me for either an "over" or "angle back"

good luck, stay with it. use a pro if needed
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#6240885 - 03/29/16 07:18 PM Re: Casting Question [Re: hunting_guy]
BradyBuck Online   content
THF Trophy Hunter

Registered: 10/18/07
Posts: 5128
Loc: Abilene, TX
This might help...

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=qF0Boex5OM8



Do you get good casts if you only have the right hand pile?


Edited by BradyBuck (03/29/16 07:18 PM)

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#6240978 - 03/29/16 08:03 PM Re: Casting Question [Re: hunting_guy]
trainer21 Offline
Light Foot

Registered: 08/04/10
Posts: 13
Do yourself and the dog a huge favor If he's lost just identify the pile..It usually takes just once or twice down the road ( Basically that's all he is doing in the clip)

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#6241537 - 03/30/16 10:10 AM Re: Casting Question [Re: maximumintensityretriever]
hunting_guy Offline
Woodsman

Registered: 09/09/15
Posts: 163
Loc: Central Texas
Originally Posted By: maximumintensityretriever
If you are sending from your side and stopping the dog then you are on single T and not mini T. In mini T the dog should be in front finish facing you and you would go through all the casts making sure that the dog understands each cast and the difference between overs and backs. In this drill you would call back and recast. Have you done this?

Another question...you say when the dog goes the wrong direction. Is the dog turning the right way and digging back? If so just stop with the whistle, tweet in and recast. Is the dog watching you through the entire cast. Some dogs have trouble at this stage because the don't watch the whole cast and go as soon as you move. Casts need to be ultra slow at this point with verbal restraint and emphasis on watching you. All of this should be cleaned up on mini T before moving to single and double T. Don't be afraid to stop the dog. This is where the dog starts learning about attrition. You are forcing on a known location anyway but if done right popping shouldn't develop. You mentioned your dog did better when you moved closer. This is because distance erodes control. Your dog should be about 5 yards in front of you in mini T so this should not be an issue.


Sorry Tony, I called the drill I'm working the wrong name... I'm working the single "T" with him right now, so I guess I should have started on mini t. I have not done the mini "T" yet. He's was doing 1 of 2 things on right overs, he would either turn (the correct way) but try and go on a right back if I sent him on a right over, or he wouldn't move from remote sit (you could tell he was confused about what he needed to do).

I worked him pretty hard on it yesterday evening, I did 2 sessions with about 18 bumpers apiece. I moved closer to gain a little more control, I moved the left and right piles slightly closer to the center line to provide additional visibility, and I really slowed him down when casting while he was in remote sit and exaggerated my motions towards the right pile (taking a few steps over on the first few casts). He's trying to anticipate the cast sometimes it seems, so slowing down seemed to help that issue.

To answer everyone else's question, he wasn't having any trouble on left overs, left backs, or right backs... only right overs.

He did much better the first session, only having a slight bit of trouble on the first right over. After that, I could see it click with him and it was game on after that. He nailed the remaining bumpers in that session and got all of them perfectly on the next session (right backs, right overs, left backs, left overs, and of course the straight to back pile with no stop).

My question now is, since I should have started on the mini-t, should I stop him on the single t and start working him on the mini t, or should I just continue through the single t since I already started? He seems to have it down now.

Thanks for everyone's advice :-)


Edited by hunting_guy (03/30/16 10:19 AM)
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#6241796 - 03/30/16 01:49 PM Re: Casting Question [Re: hunting_guy]
maximumintensityretriever Offline
Tracker

Registered: 04/16/13
Posts: 512
Loc: Longview, Texas
Nice!!! Keep trucking with single T since he seems to have it and hasn't broken down with pressure. Keep working on it until you have backed up to where you are going to run double T from and you have had at least three sessions in a row with no corrections. Continue casting slow and make the dog watch you through the entire cast.
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