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Mil vs MoA Polls (Attention: FiremanJG)
#6232892
03/22/16 08:31 PM
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Joined: Feb 2012
Posts: 9,715
Mickey Moose
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OP
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My botnet is bigger than yours.
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Re: Mil vs MoA Polls (Attention: FiremanJG)
[Re: Mickey Moose]
#6232899
03/22/16 08:37 PM
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Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 18,934
ChadTRG42
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Well, chit. might as well throw in the 9, 40, vs 45 debate, too, while we're at it! Eh, I'd go 10mm.
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Re: Mil vs MoA Polls (Attention: FiremanJG)
[Re: Mickey Moose]
#6232910
03/22/16 08:47 PM
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Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 41,157
J.G.
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2013
I'd provide links, but don't have the time right now. Search Precision Rifle Series competitor equipment. I know a few hold-outs that have recently switched from MOA to MIL, Chad being one of them. He, like I, will tell you Mils are easier to use in dynamic shooting situations. Judd (veteran bench-rester) even purchased a Mil scope, and he too agrees.
Just a look at SWFA.com will show you how many turreted scopes, with matching reticles are available in each system. There are more in the market in Mils. Wonder why that is?
MOA has its place in F-class, and bench rest, but that's it, in my opinion.
Care to see a windage chart of both? Give me a cartridge you shoot, with what bullet you shoot.
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Re: Mil vs MoA Polls (Attention: FiremanJG)
[Re: Mickey Moose]
#6232916
03/22/16 08:52 PM
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Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 18,934
ChadTRG42
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I have always liked MOA, and there's nothing wrong with that. I still have several MOA scopes and use them. If you plan to "use" a scope, meaning dial the turrets like they were meant to be used for longer range shooting, or to dial in your scope with much more ease, mils is the way to go. It IS a simpler system with much quicker adjustments.
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Re: Mil vs MoA Polls (Attention: FiremanJG)
[Re: Mickey Moose]
#6232943
03/22/16 09:16 PM
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Joined: Jun 2011
Posts: 33,946
Buzzsaw
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Re: Mil vs MoA Polls (Attention: FiremanJG)
[Re: J.G.]
#6232966
03/22/16 09:29 PM
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Joined: Feb 2012
Posts: 9,715
Mickey Moose
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My apologies to FiremanJG - I recognized a long time ago reading your posts that this is a heartfelt topic for you; I wasn't challenging your position and was simply having fun with the post which I knew would be of interest to you. After seeing you preach (saying that nicely) about the subject and reading quite a bit of material outside of THF I have also crossed over (in logic though not yet with equipment).
Cheers.
Mickey
My botnet is bigger than yours.
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Re: Mil vs MoA Polls (Attention: FiremanJG)
[Re: Mickey Moose]
#6233035
03/22/16 10:13 PM
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Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 41,157
J.G.
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No apologies needed. I though this was just a simple discussion, for others to see and maybe pick up a tip or two.
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Re: Mil vs MoA Polls (Attention: FiremanJG)
[Re: J.G.]
#6233067
03/22/16 10:34 PM
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Joined: Feb 2012
Posts: 9,715
Mickey Moose
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Ah yes, absolutely. I misunderstood your post.
My botnet is bigger than yours.
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Re: Mil vs MoA Polls (Attention: FiremanJG)
[Re: Mickey Moose]
#6233072
03/22/16 10:38 PM
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Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 41,157
J.G.
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Happens all the time. I don't mean to come off as ticked, but many think that I am. It's a curse.
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Re: Mil vs MoA Polls (Attention: FiremanJG)
[Re: Mickey Moose]
#6233195
03/23/16 12:15 AM
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Joined: Feb 2015
Posts: 5,157
flintknapper
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Care to see a windage chart of both? Give me a cartridge you shoot, with what bullet you shoot.
.458 SOCOM Case Trim 1.573" CCI 350 Primer 405 gr. Remington Jacketed Soft Point: Bullet Length = 1.0" SD 276 BC .281 36.5 grains Alliant Reloder-7 1660 FPS average 16" PacNor Super Match Barrel, 1:14 twist
Spartans ask not...how many, but where!
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Re: Mil vs MoA Polls (Attention: FiremanJG)
[Re: Mickey Moose]
#6233198
03/23/16 12:18 AM
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Joined: Apr 2010
Posts: 6,219
dee
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All have their purposes. I use mil in comp and moa on other things. I really don't care provided the turrets match the reticle.
"A vote is like a rifle; it's usefulness depends on the character of the user" Theodore Roosevelt
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Re: Mil vs MoA Polls (Attention: FiremanJG)
[Re: flintknapper]
#6233216
03/23/16 12:39 AM
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Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 41,157
J.G.
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Care to see a windage chart of both? Give me a cartridge you shoot, with what bullet you shoot.
.458 SOCOM Case Trim 1.573" CCI 350 Primer 405 gr. Remington Jacketed Soft Point: Bullet Length = 1.0" SD 276 BC .281 36.5 grains Alliant Reloder-7 1660 FPS average 16" PacNor Super Match Barrel, 1:14 twist How far you plan on shooting that? What's the BC on that bullet?
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Re: Mil vs MoA Polls (Attention: FiremanJG)
[Re: dee]
#6233218
03/23/16 12:40 AM
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Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 41,157
J.G.
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All have their purposes. I use mil in comp and moa on other things. I really don't care provided the turrets match the reticle. Why use Mils in competition, dee?
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Re: Mil vs MoA Polls (Attention: FiremanJG)
[Re: Mickey Moose]
#6233231
03/23/16 12:48 AM
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Joined: Nov 2007
Posts: 9,516
RiverRider
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It all has its place.
If I was interested in the same game as JG plays, I'd probably approach it very much like he does. But I'm not interested in that...and I don't care to be twisting turrets either. I'll stick to old school MOA reticles and holdovers with my sporter-weight, classic walnut-stocked rifles shooting bullets built for toughness, weight retention, and penetration.
There are as many approaches to the gun sports as there are participants, I'm sure.
"Arguing with you always makes me thirsty." -Augustus McRae
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Re: Mil vs MoA Polls (Attention: FiremanJG)
[Re: J.G.]
#6233248
03/23/16 01:02 AM
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Joined: Apr 2010
Posts: 6,219
dee
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All have their purposes. I use mil in comp and moa on other things. I really don't care provided the turrets match the reticle. Why use Mils in competition, dee? When in Rome.... I never tried moa in anything except bench shooting.
"A vote is like a rifle; it's usefulness depends on the character of the user" Theodore Roosevelt
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Re: Mil vs MoA Polls (Attention: FiremanJG)
[Re: RiverRider]
#6233313
03/23/16 01:40 AM
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Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 41,157
J.G.
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What MOA reticle scope do you have?
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Re: Mil vs MoA Polls (Attention: FiremanJG)
[Re: dee]
#6233315
03/23/16 01:41 AM
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Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 41,157
J.G.
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You've seen multiple targets, at multiple distances, with varying wind angles, and not much time.
Less thinking, less remembering with Mils.
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Re: Mil vs MoA Polls (Attention: FiremanJG)
[Re: RiverRider]
#6233328
03/23/16 01:48 AM
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Joined: Aug 2012
Posts: 603
Dien
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It all has its place.
If I was interested in the same game as JG plays, I'd probably approach it very much like he does. But I'm not interested in that...and I don't care to be twisting turrets either. I'll stick to old school MOA reticles and holdovers with my sporter-weight, classic walnut-stocked rifles shooting bullets built for toughness, weight retention, and penetration.
There are as many approaches to the gun sports as there are participants, I'm sure. What bullets do you speak of?
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Re: Mil vs MoA Polls (Attention: FiremanJG)
[Re: J.G.]
#6233540
03/23/16 11:06 AM
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Joined: Apr 2010
Posts: 6,219
dee
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What MOA reticle scope do you have? Technically still own a NightForce NXS although a friend that is in possession of it says he's buying it. Also still own one of the original Bushnell elite tactical scopes that's mil/moa.
"A vote is like a rifle; it's usefulness depends on the character of the user" Theodore Roosevelt
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Re: Mil vs MoA Polls (Attention: FiremanJG)
[Re: dee]
#6233555
03/23/16 11:33 AM
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Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 41,157
J.G.
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I was asking River Rider.
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Re: Mil vs MoA Polls (Attention: FiremanJG)
[Re: Mickey Moose]
#6233652
03/23/16 01:11 PM
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Joined: Nov 2010
Posts: 6,287
scalebuster
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MOA 4 LIFE. Is my Neck tattoo.
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Re: Mil vs MoA Polls (Attention: FiremanJG)
[Re: scalebuster]
#6233670
03/23/16 01:22 PM
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Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 41,157
J.G.
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MOA 4 LIFE. Is my Neck tattoo. Unfortunate scar.
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Re: Mil vs MoA Polls (Attention: FiremanJG)
[Re: Mickey Moose]
#6233683
03/23/16 01:37 PM
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Joined: Jun 2009
Posts: 4,193
Korean Redneck
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I am by far not even a good/experienced rifle shooter but this conversation always reminds me of a conversation i've had in the past with turbocharged car folks. And too a much greater extent happens in my professional life regularly.
I've heard turbocharger guys tell me "pressure gauges that measure in bars are VASTLY superior to PSI." As an engineer, I will never be convinced that a certain unit of measure and quantify the same measurement is intrinsically or universally better. they are literally measuring the same thing but merely expressed in a different manner. Obviously there is a personal preference to it. I started my career with an American company in a very international industry. I will to the bitter end always think in terms of feets and pounds no matter how many non-Americans tell me how metric is SOOOOOOO vastly superior. I don't care, it still gets the job done. 500kg just doesn't make as much sens to me as 1100lbs. 6ft tall is something i can visualize, 183cm is not as real to me.
Same thing here. The reason I now prefer mil these days because the intervals that are common in reticles just seem easier to talk about. I like the increments better.
Btw, anyone who argues mils are more accurate than moa or vice versa are idiots. And yes I've heard this many times before from wanna weekend warriors at the gun range.
I'm a dude who likes long barrels!
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Re: Mil vs MoA Polls (Attention: FiremanJG)
[Re: J.G.]
#6233806
03/23/16 03:15 PM
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Joined: Nov 2007
Posts: 9,516
RiverRider
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O What MOA reticle scope do you have? I should say I prefer to use conventional duplex reticles. Some of my scopes have holdover marks such as the Leupold Varmint reticle. I do have one Mark AR 3-9x with mil dots, but I haven't played with it enough to form an opinion on it. I've had a lot of optics turnover the last few months and only enough time to sight most of them in.
"Arguing with you always makes me thirsty." -Augustus McRae
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Re: Mil vs MoA Polls (Attention: FiremanJG)
[Re: RiverRider]
#6233943
03/23/16 05:03 PM
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Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 41,157
J.G.
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Ah!
Even a duplex has about five holds for elevation and windage.
Bottom of the top post Halfway from top post to center Center Halfway from center to top of bottom post Top of bottom post.
I'm sure you knew that though. That was for spectator.
In the past I zeroed a rifle to be at the bottom of the top post. Four holds from there.
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