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New ATN Thor-HD 640 2.5-25 thermal rifle scope #6219910 03/11/16 10:30 PM
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Let me start off by saying that I was part of the “Paid Beta Testing” for the original ATN X-sight day night rifle scope. I’m am totally aware of all the problems with the scope and the misrepresentation of some of the advertised features. That said’ I’ll still think that ATN has some great products like the older THOR 640 which I currently own and have no real issue with it.

Okay, now to the question:

The New ATN Thor-HD 640 2.5-25 thermal rifle scope look very attractive for $5K for the “advertised” spec:

I don’t see the advertised frame rate, is it 30Hz or 60Hz?
Also, ATN state the “Core” is an “ATN Obsidian "T" II”, is this the Thermal Core? If so, is this new to the market and is ATN the manufacturer?

Can someone shine some light on these two Specs?

Please don’t hijack this thread and start bashing the old X-Sights, there’s plenty of threads on this forum that already do that.

Sensor 640 x 480
Magnification 2.5 - 25 X
Angle of view 12.5 x 9.7
Objective lens 50 mm
Micro display HD Display
Core ATN Obsidian "T" II
Eye relief 65 mm
IP rating Weather resistant
Video Record Resolution 1280x960 at 30 fps
Microphone Yes
On board memory 4 GB
Micro SD card Up to 64 GB
Micro USB External Battery Pack
Micro HDMI Yes
WiFi (Streaming, Gallery & Controls) iOS & Android
Bluetooth 4.1
GPS (Geotagging, Elevation, etc.) Yes
3D Gyroscope Yes - GS7
3D Accelerometer Yes
3D Magnetometer Yes
E-Barometer Yes
Smart range finder Yes
Smart Shooting Solution Yes
RAV (Recoil Activated Video) Yes
Electronic Compass Yes
Smooth Zoom Yes
Reticles Multiple Patterns & Color Options
Mount Picatinny Quick Release Mount, Interchangeable
Battery life (Li-ion) 8 hours
Battery type 4 AA (Lithium Recommended)
Dimensions 8.81" x 3.16" x 3.14"/224 mm x 80 mm x 80 mm
Weight 1.85 lbs
Human Detection Range 1500 m
Human Recognition Range 600 m
Human Identification Range 360 m
Warranty Two years

Re: New ATN Thor-HD 640 2.5-25 thermal rifle scope [Re: eddie5364] #6219918 03/11/16 10:39 PM
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Well, HD does not mean high definition. It is 640x480.


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Re: New ATN Thor-HD 640 2.5-25 thermal rifle scope [Re: eddie5364] #6220217 03/12/16 02:36 AM
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I believe they call them HD not because of the near eye display resolution but rather because the micro SD records in HD.


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Re: New ATN Thor-HD 640 2.5-25 thermal rifle scope [Re: eddie5364] #6220503 03/12/16 01:14 PM
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The Obsidian II core is the processor.. the thermal cores are now from ULIS (French), I think they were either BAE or FLIR before. If you search 'ATN ULIS' on Google you'll see an ARFCOM post about it. I also read that ATN had outsourced the germanium coating on the lenses to China and made them thinner (cheaper) so if that's true then prob need to be extra careful not to scratch it.

Re: New ATN Thor-HD 640 2.5-25 thermal rifle scope [Re: eddie5364] #6220526 03/12/16 01:33 PM
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I just did some searching on the google and ATN info sites and only came up with this;
"At a billion cycles per second, the new ATN Core pushes optics into the 21th century!"
I see no refresh rates advertised in the newer HD thermal specs given, so maybe the core is beyond the normal thermal scope technology and doesn't need to refresh or it's constantly refreshing at a billion times per second ?
Either way, the recorded video taken with it is amazing. I just sold my older thor and got a newer simpler thermal
scope, but maybe I might give them another try after some field testing by others.

Last edited by shoots100; 03/12/16 01:34 PM.
Re: New ATN Thor-HD 640 2.5-25 thermal rifle scope [Re: eddie5364] #6220572 03/12/16 02:25 PM
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LOL, the billion cycles a second is the same crap claimed for the much troubled X-Sight where the Obsidian computations could not handle running multiple things at once. Don't confuse hz/refresh rate with computer processing speed. The hz/refresh rate is like your frames per second in watching video. Anything below about 24-28 is detectable by the human eye (seen as being jerky image). So this has nothing to do with the speed of the computer unless the computer can't maintain the refresh rate sufficiently high enough. However, the specs above specifically note...
Quote:
Video Record Resolution 1280x960 at 30 fps


So it looks like 30hz. That will work. The video is in HD. What a joke!!!!! The video is saved in HD which is a much higher resolution than the core. That will be sort of like watching a non-HD TV show on an HD TV. There is no actual improvement in picture quality because of the extra pixels because the quality going in was so much lower originally.

Interesting that the core is ULIS. ULIS is a French NATO thermal provider. They provide the cores for Pulsar, IIRC.

Quote:
Either way, the recorded video taken with it is amazing.


Where are you finding vids of the THOR HD thermal online? Link?

Last edited by Double Naught Spy; 03/12/16 02:33 PM.

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Re: New ATN Thor-HD 640 2.5-25 thermal rifle scope [Re: eddie5364] #6220611 03/12/16 03:00 PM
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The first rendition of Obsidian HD video I refer to it as Chinese HD.

A lower quality video than US broadcast for sure but when you view the file properties they are HD pixel sizes so.....

It's kind of like magicians :

There is David Copperfield (True HD) and that Uncle who has 2 tricks and smells like yesterday's takeout

Last edited by Pig_Popper; 03/12/16 03:46 PM.

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Re: New ATN Thor-HD 640 2.5-25 thermal rifle scope [Re: eddie5364] #6220682 03/12/16 03:54 PM
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Interesting that their current Thor, 640, 2.5X lists for $6,299.00 and they are going to add all the above stuff and kick it out the door for 5K.

Last edited by dfwroadkill; 03/12/16 05:11 PM.
Re: New ATN Thor-HD 640 2.5-25 thermal rifle scope [Re: eddie5364] #6220720 03/12/16 04:29 PM
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The benefits of manufacturing in China.


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Re: New ATN Thor-HD 640 2.5-25 thermal rifle scope [Re: eddie5364] #6220945 03/12/16 08:41 PM
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Well I found the answer to one of may questions, looks like ATN is now in the Thermal core manufacturing business, they stop using the FLIR cores for the NEW ThOr's.

Found this articles from the Night Vision Guys, still nothing on the frame rate, 30Hz or 60Hz?

From Night Vision Guys about ATN ThOR HD 640 2.5-25x50 Thermal Rifle Scope TIWSTH643A

In 2016 ATN took yet another novel approach to thermal scopes. Using some of the technology developed for the X-Sight scope and BinoX binoculars in 2014 and 2015, they redesigned the entire ThOR line to be based on Obsidian "T" II Thermal cores instead of the FLIR cores used previously. Results seem to be impressive. The new ThOR HD thermal scopes pack a ton of modern technologically advanced features. How well these new cores will hold up compared to the proven FLIR cores used in the past remains to be seen, but the 3 year body / 10 year core warranty ATN offers puts our concerns to rest.

This particular model featuring 2.5-25x progressive zoom with a 50mm objective lens is ideal for mid range hunting. Competitively priced and packed with features this thermal scope is probably the ideal choice for most hunters as it covers the standard 75-300 yard hunting range.

Some key features of the ThOR HD Series:
•Smart Range Finder
•Recoil Activated Video (RAV)
•Wi-Fi
•Bluetooth
•Gyroscope
•Magnetometer
•Accelerometer
•E-Barometer
•Smooth Zoom
•Profile Manager
•E-Compass
•GPS Geotag

Last edited by eddie5364; 03/13/16 12:27 AM.
Re: New ATN Thor-HD 640 2.5-25 thermal rifle scope [Re: eddie5364] #6220955 03/12/16 08:47 PM
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Well I just go the answer to my second question, I emailed ATN and I got this response back.

Dear eddie,

Your question regarding product ATN THOR-HD 640 2.5-25x50 Thermal Rifle Scope has been answered

Your question: What is the frame rate for this unit 30hz of 60hz?


Their answer is: The thermal scope itself is capable of 50hz, however the initial software version which the unit will come with will be at 30hz. ATN is planning to have a software update later in the year to activate 50hz capability.

Re: New ATN Thor-HD 640 2.5-25 thermal rifle scope [Re: eddie5364] #6221005 03/12/16 09:59 PM
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I think they are using the term 'core' here to mean the microprocessor core, not the thermal core....

Re: New ATN Thor-HD 640 2.5-25 thermal rifle scope [Re: eddie5364] #6221026 03/12/16 10:19 PM
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Quote:
Some key features of the ThOR HD Series:
•Smart Range Finder
•Recoil Activated Video (RAV)
•Wi-Fi
•Bluetooth
•Gyroscope
•Magnetometer
•Accelerometer
•E-Barometer
•Smooth Zoom
•Profile Manager
•E-Compass
•GPS Geotag


I wonder how many of these will actually work properly upon release.

Magnetometer? Really? Gotta wonder if that isn't just the compass.

Did the accelerometer ever work right on the X-Sight?


ATN is not building thermal cores.


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Re: New ATN Thor-HD 640 2.5-25 thermal rifle scope [Re: eddie5364] #6221148 03/13/16 12:25 AM
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ATN may not actually build the "Obsidian "T" II Thermal cores" but they are using a new core in the new ThOr-HD line and getting away for the FLIR cores.

Last edited by eddie5364; 03/13/16 12:30 AM.
Re: New ATN Thor-HD 640 2.5-25 thermal rifle scope [Re: eddie5364] #6221348 03/13/16 02:42 AM
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Originally Posted By: eddie5364
ATN may not actually build the "Obsidian "T" II Thermal cores" but they are using a new core in the new ThOr-HD line and getting away for the FLIR cores.


Eddie, you don't understand. The Obsidian stuff is the computer, not the thermal core. The same basic Obsidian system is inside the X-Sights and referred to as the Obsidian II Core

Last edited by Double Naught Spy; 03/13/16 03:19 AM.

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Re: New ATN Thor-HD 640 2.5-25 thermal rifle scope [Re: Double Naught Spy] #6221728 03/13/16 01:11 PM
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Actually Double Naught Spy your not getting it, read the article I posted earlier with the "Night Vision Guys" review of the New ATN ThOr, These guys are a retailer for ATN products that will warranty the product and this is their quote:

"redesigned the entire ThOR line to be based on Obsidian "T" II Thermal cores instead of the FLIR cores used previously. Results seem to be impressive. The new ThOR HD thermal scopes pack a ton of modern technologically advanced features. How well these new cores will hold up compared to the proven FLIR cores used in the past remains to be seen, but the 3 year body / 10 year core warranty ATN offers puts our concerns to rest.

This article could not be any clearer, If you have any "reliable" information that disproves the night vision guys statement, please post it and where you found it. Please!

Also, as I stated in my first post, I am a owner (not a user) of the ATN X-Sight and I'm completely aware of the ATN Obsidian core and "UI". The New ATN ThOr is not the X-Sight. ATN is using the "UI" from the x-sight not their core.


Last edited by eddie5364; 03/13/16 01:15 PM.
Re: New ATN Thor-HD 640 2.5-25 thermal rifle scope [Re: eddie5364] #6221756 03/13/16 01:36 PM
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From the ATN website.. http://www.atncorp.com/thermal-scope-thor-hd-640-1x-10x

Under "Obsidian Core and UI", it says...

"The Obsidian Core is a highly specialized computer that is designed to run a suite of sensors and crunch huge files in a blink of an eye."

i.e. the Obsidian core is not the thermal core, it's the microprocessor core. I think the site you reference just made a generalization that is leading to confusion.

Also, look here http://www.ulis-ir.com/index.php?infrared-detector=products and see that the thermal cores are the same resolution 640x480 or 384x288 as the ATNs.

Last edited by JCCinOhio; 03/13/16 01:59 PM.
Re: New ATN Thor-HD 640 2.5-25 thermal rifle scope [Re: eddie5364] #6221814 03/13/16 02:36 PM
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Yes, JCC, it is interesting how both the X-sight and the Thor HD have "Obsidian Cores" described as operating at a billion cycles per second, but Eddie has them as completely different components. I can't find any thermal core manufacturer that describes their thermal cores as operating at a billion cycles per second, or "a billion hertz." They operate at levels such as 7, 9, 30, 50, 60, etc.

At a billion hertz, the Thor would be the first high speed thermal rifle sight. At a billion hertz, it would be an impressively fast high speed camera, be it thermal, night vision, or daylight.

The X-Sight II is using the Obsidian II core. The Thor HD is using the Obsidian "T" II core. This is just the obsidian core adapted for use with thermal.

Last edited by Double Naught Spy; 03/13/16 02:39 PM.

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Re: New ATN Thor-HD 640 2.5-25 thermal rifle scope [Re: eddie5364] #6221864 03/13/16 03:21 PM
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I think the confusion is what's between the "thermal sensor" (Obsidian "T" II Thermal core) and what the "Obsidian Core" (computer),
this is what I found from the ATN web site"

Obsidian core:(Computer)

"The Obsidian Core is a highly specialized computer that is designed to run a suite of sensors and crunch huge files in a blink of an eye." (operating at a billion cycles per second)

Thermal Sensor: (Obsidian "T" II Thermal core)

"Utilizing high-resolution sensor with distinct night vision capability"
(operating at a frame rate 30hz).





Last edited by eddie5364; 03/13/16 03:22 PM.
Re: New ATN Thor-HD 640 2.5-25 thermal rifle scope [Re: eddie5364] #6221887 03/13/16 03:37 PM
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I think you are putting too much faith into what that one website says. If you want to be sure, e-mail ATN and ask. Otherwise time will tell as more details come out. All I know is a very respected thermal retailer and ATN vendor went to SHOT show and asked ATN the question and was told the thermal cores were ULIS.

Last edited by JCCinOhio; 03/13/16 03:39 PM.
Re: New ATN Thor-HD 640 2.5-25 thermal rifle scope [Re: eddie5364] #6221894 03/13/16 03:46 PM
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Quote:
Thermal Sensor: (Obsidian "T" II Thermal core)


Post a link from the ATN websight where it has the phrase in parentheses showing that it is the THERMAL sensor. I don't find it anywhere that it shows up like you describe saying Thermal Sensor with Obsidian "T" II Thermal Core following it.

While you are at it, go ahead and post any other ATN promo material that says that they are making their own cores now.

Last edited by Double Naught Spy; 03/13/16 03:50 PM.

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Re: New ATN Thor-HD 640 2.5-25 thermal rifle scope [Re: eddie5364] #6222062 03/13/16 07:13 PM
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Here is the answer I received from the Night Vision guys concerning the "core" questions, they agree with me the there is two components that are in the New ThOr-HD, who make the new thermal sensor is still up in the air. but it's not FLIR.

Email question the NVG's

There's some confusion with the "core" of the new line of ThOr-HD thermals. Is the below statement correct? are there two separate components or is the thermal sensor built in the Obsidian core.

1. Obsidian core:(Computer)

"The Obsidian Core is a highly specialized computer that is designed to run a suite of sensors and crunch huge files in a blink of an eye." (operating at a billion cycles per second)

2. Thermal Sensor: (Obsidian "T" II Thermal core)

"Utilizing high-resolution sensor with distinct night vision capability"
(operating at a frame rate 30hz).

Also, now that ATN stop using the FLIR for the new ThOr-HD line, what company make the "Obsidian "T" II Thermal core"? are they made by ULIS (French),

NVG Answer:

Their answer is: Hi Eddie. What you wrote is correct. Obsidian does not stand for thermal specifically it is just the operating platform. That's what provides all the smart features like wireless connectivity, video recording, etc. Digital night vision and thermal sensors are then connected to this platform depending on the type of device we are looking at. We were told that though the units currently operate at 30hz they are capable of 50hz. This seems (we are not sure) to be a software issue which is limiting the refresh rate and is likely to be addressed in a later firmware upgrade. As for who makes the actual thermal core, we do not know at the moment. We will try to find out but you can also contact ATN directly. Please let us know if you have any further questions.

Re: New ATN Thor-HD 640 2.5-25 thermal rifle scope [Re: eddie5364] #6222073 03/13/16 07:22 PM
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So you could not find where ATN calls the thermal core an Obsidian "T" II thermal core like you claimed above. Got it.


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Re: New ATN Thor-HD 640 2.5-25 thermal rifle scope [Re: Double Naught Spy] #6222179 03/13/16 09:39 PM
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So I guess you didn't read the response from NVG, typical! you have not provided any information disproving "Obsidian "T" II thermal core" claim. GOT IT. I've provide multiple sources backing the this claim. you done nothing but try to pick this thread apart.

I remember you picking apart another thread I started about the Therm-app thermal scope I posted awhile back. That post you didn't what you where talking about either, You were just pushing Pulsar products. Aren't you a rep for them?

Moderator, please close this thread, Double Naught Spy has hijacked another thread.

Re: New ATN Thor-HD 640 2.5-25 thermal rifle scope [Re: eddie5364] #6222270 03/13/16 11:28 PM
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More confusion created by ATN. They like to do that. Hence, the use of the term "HD", which leads many folks to believe it is a high definition core. It obviously is not. No commercial companies are using HD cores...yet, but they do exist.

When they use the term "Obsidian "T"II" in their specifications, I believe it refers to the updated Obsidian processor that couples to and processes the data from a ULIS 388 x 284 sensor (or core).

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