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Re: At what point do you call it good? [Re: Strongbad] #6218359 03/11/16 12:35 AM
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Originally Posted By: Strongbad
Originally Posted By: FiremanJG
Everyone is ignoring the suppressor. You've got a sub half MOA load with a long weight hanging off the end of the barrel. Yes you tuned the load with the can on, thus not changing harmonics.


Not ignoring it, but the OP hasn't done enough workup. It sounds like the potential is certainly there. 1 bullet/powder combo and no seating depth tweaks, especially on a custom rifle that should be accurate enough to show the results of small changes in the same, is not enough. Do yourself a favor and keep at it (with the suppressor on). Keep working on that combo... work with the seating depth etc. and try some other combos as well.


Agreed. You'll want to work up the load in the configuration you're going to be shooting it (i.e. suppressed). For what it's worth, when I shoot my suppressors I notice a POI shift, but no change in accuracy. Given you're running the harvester, I would imagine the POI shift would be minimal (at least as a result of weight)


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Re: At what point do you call it good? [Re: TXMikeMcC] #6218508 03/11/16 01:35 AM
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Well, that's your rifle. I worked up the load for my 7 Rem Mag without suppressor, and it shoots tiny. Screw the suppressor on and it will shoot worse than a Mosin Nagant with corroded steel case ammo.

If you want to keep tweaking, keep the powder, and bullet, and play with seating depth. Despite what was stated before, some bullets, even Bergers like to jump.

Beyond that, a half inch 100 yard gun is plenty good. If you want to keep burning powder shoot it at distance, change positions, shoot multiple target distances with only pure holds. Pick a day to go shoot in 15-25 mph winds. Make cold bore shots at distance. Shoot the rifle right handed as well as left handed. Doing all that with a 1/2 MOA gun is far more than 95% of shooters ever do.


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Re: At what point do you call it good? [Re: ZK-315] #6218779 03/11/16 03:51 AM
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How good is good enough? Time passes and expectations change. Thirty-plus years ago a one inch group was good enough for me - at 100 yards. Now I'd spit on that group (depending on the rifle) and wonder what I did wrong. I think the expectations are taking me where my old buddy Pat went with his golf. We were both hackers, but one day he decided to take many lessons and become a serious golfer. That would make him happy. And over time he became a 75 to 80 shooter. He was far more miserable than he was when he shot 95 because he now expected to shoot a good score always. It's all about the expectations.

So, for us shooters, you might have been happily blasting 3/4 inch groups, but you get on the forums and it seems like everybody shoots 1/4 inch groups. Well dang, you're gonna want to do that too. Time to spend some money. Your expectations have changed. I'm pretty sure we've all been there. Heck, I'm still there.


Last edited by 603Country; 03/11/16 03:58 AM.

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Re: At what point do you call it good? [Re: ZK-315] #6219007 03/11/16 01:35 PM
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I usually try to get 4-5 shot groups at .5" or better. Could I get it better? Probably so but after a while it gets way too time consuming unless you just get lucky and find the perfect combination early. I'm not competition shooting either but like you just want a very accurate hunting rifle that I can shoot out to 1000 yards also. I have found that when I have two loads that produce similar results and I can't decide which one to go with, I will turn to the chronograph to tell me which one is the most consistent. That has worked well for me so far. It can be very addicting and time consuming. I sometimes find myself wasting a lot of time chasing that .25" group and have to wonder if sometime it may not be the gun or the load, but I just may not be shooting that accurate. Also some days, you have to play with a little more wind than you want to or a darn mirage at the target that won't go away and it makes the game even tougher. I wish I had more time, but I reload for several rifles and after awhile I just have to call it good enough. In my opinion once you get it that good, you have a very accurate hunting rifle with a proven load and you can tinker with it a little here and there as time allows. For a person who uses only one rifle all the time, I could see where they would have a very accurate load if all the time and load development is going into one rifle.

Re: At what point do you call it good? [Re: ZK-315] #6219124 03/11/16 02:40 PM
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The more I think about it, 603Country hit the nail on the head.

Up until the beginning of last year, 1" at 100 yards was good enough for me. At that point in time I think my longest shot was around 150 yards. Around March/April 2015 I was at a friends house who was checking his dope for an aoudad hunt. He shot out to 400 yards and asked if I wanted to try. It was game over for me at that point.

At some point, I'd love to come take your class Fireman, but it wont happen for a few months at least. Little man should be hitting the ground in a couple of weeks and I doubt I'll be going anywhere for a while lol.

Re: At what point do you call it good? [Re: ZK-315] #6219257 03/11/16 03:43 PM
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It's no problem. I operate 12 months a year. The platform has a roof over it. So if is raining or hot we can carry on. In the summer guys always say how oddly cool it is under that roof. I insulated it mostly for muzzle brakes, but it does help keep the heat off as well.

The way your rifle is shooting you'll end the prone shooting portion hitting an 8" square at 800 yards, I have no doubt.


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Re: At what point do you call it good? [Re: J.G.] #6219326 03/11/16 04:09 PM
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Originally Posted By: FiremanJG
Well, that's your rifle. I worked up the load for my 7 Rem Mag without suppressor, and it shoots tiny. Screw the suppressor on and it will shoot worse than a Mosin Nagant with corroded steel case ammo.


Did you just accuse me of using a single data point as fact, then in the very next sentence proceed to do the exact same thing yourself? LOL.

All I'm saying is that the vast majority of data you'll find online would tend to support the statement that generally, you won't see much (if any) change in accuracy, but you will see changes in POI.


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Re: At what point do you call it good? [Re: ZK-315] #6219472 03/11/16 05:41 PM
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If barrel harmonics dictate or highly influence POI, then I'd be shocked if adding a suppressor DIDN'T change the POI.


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Re: At what point do you call it good? [Re: TXMikeMcC] #6219780 03/11/16 08:45 PM
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Originally Posted By: TXMikeMcC

All I'm saying is that the vast majority of data you'll find online would tend to support the statement that generally, you won't see much (if any) change in accuracy, but you will see changes in POI.


That is subjective to weight and length of suppressor. I have a Titanium Tiger Shark that is 10" and 26 oz. And it will in fact change POI, as you are saying. It will also take a great shooting rifle and make it worsen, if the rifle wasn't load developed with the suppressor attached. Even my 25" Rem Varmint contour 6.5 Creedmoor will go down hill after a few shots. 26 oz. is quite a bit of weight no matter what the rest of the internet says.


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Re: At what point do you call it good? [Re: Gemlin] #6221089 03/12/16 11:31 PM
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Originally Posted By: Gemlin
Im a bit different. If a gun shoots 1" or less at 100y, I call it good. It will be good enough for neck shots and will kill any animal I aim it at.


Quote of the day right here. This is the right answer for hunters. At 1-inch or less at 100 yards, you're still well within the vital zone at 300 yards given proper holdover to account for bullet drop. Let's face it, most hunters (99%) shoot most of their animals within 150 yards. That's just a fact. You're beating yourself and your rifle up over nothing. Keep reloading and working on those loads if it's fun for you and you enjoy it, but be proud of what you've done so far. Your deer at 300 yards will be just as dead as the one at 100.

Last edited by Hunter Gatherer; 03/12/16 11:32 PM.
Re: At what point do you call it good? [Re: Hunter Gatherer] #6221296 03/13/16 02:16 AM
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Lots of truth there^^

But O.P. also mentioned wanting to target shoot at 1000 yards. Having a 1/2" gun is removing one more factor than having a 1" gun. The 1/2 probably has a significantly lower ES and SD, which is very needed to repeatedly hit something fairly small that far away.


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