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Max Online: 16728 @ 03/25/12 08:51 AM
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#6214584 - 03/08/16 01:34 PM Ranch / Lease liability waiver and insurance
Scoop Offline


Registered: 01/13/09
Posts: 1953
Loc: North of San Antonio
Not sure if this is the proper place for this, but figured that it was more land related than hunting...

Not to get into too much detail here, but a few weeks back someone my wife and I know had a son get injured pretty severely while he was a guest at a lease. Now the law suit is gearing up and somebody is likely to lose a bundle if they were not properly protected with waivers and insurance.

I have about 260 acres out in the boonies and I often have friends / guests out to help get things done, and have fun and do some hunting as well. If I am going to continue to have folks out like I do I am going to have to protect myself a bit better, or shut it down to just close family. After hearing what is going on, the wife is rightfully worried we could have somebody sue for something we have no real fault or control over and have them come after any assets we own. It gets real when you see it happening like this.

I have reworked my waivers/releases and am going to have a lawyer review / bless it. Nobody sets foot on the place anymore without properly signing. I know that may not stop everyone from suing, but it gives me at least a layer of protection. Better to have one than not...

Also looking at insurance, mostly liability. I do also have a couple of simple cabins and a fair amount of tools and equipment on site which would be nice to cover as well, but that is a secondary consideration.

Any recommendations on who to contact and what type of coverage I should get? Also open to any comments on waivers.

thanks...

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#6214616 - 03/08/16 01:55 PM Re: Ranch / Lease liability waiver and insurance [Re: Scoop]
Mr. T. Online   content
Pro Tracker

Registered: 11/05/14
Posts: 1613
Loc: Fort Worth - Hunt in Eastland ...
Try this..you can read most of it and then scroll to the bottom for the contract. This is not exactly what you are asking for but it is a step in the right direction. It's from Texas A&M university.
https://assets.recenter.tamu.edu/documents/articles/570.pdf
_________________________
Ski cabin rental in Pagosa Springs.
www.pagosaspringscabin.com

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#6214640 - 03/08/16 02:10 PM Re: Ranch / Lease liability waiver and insurance [Re: Mr. T.]
Scoop Offline


Registered: 01/13/09
Posts: 1953
Loc: North of San Antonio
Thanks,

Will review it more tonight, but it looks like the waiver has much of what I have included in mine. My place is not a "lease" so wording needs to be a bit different. I'll definitely incorporate some additional A&M wording/signature blocks before getting it checked by my lawyer.

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#6214854 - 03/08/16 04:45 PM Re: Ranch / Lease liability waiver and insurance [Re: Scoop]
STXHO Online   content
THF Trophy Hunter

Registered: 04/06/11
Posts: 5123
Loc: South Texas
I would recommend putting your assets that you mentioned in a separate LLC. This protects your assets if you are ever sued. I would also recommend a good liability policy with a balloon policy ($1mil+). A waiver with a list of the ranch rules, are important. If you PM me your email I will send you mine. It is very thorough.

My lawyer suggested this to me a couple years ago and it has given me additional peace of mind.
_________________________
www.southtexashuntingoutfitters.com



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#6215180 - 03/08/16 08:10 PM Re: Ranch / Lease liability waiver and insurance [Re: Scoop]
P1DTAY Offline
Tracker

Registered: 07/28/12
Posts: 593
Loc: North Texas
It is sad that these days we have to have conversations about a person suing after being invited somewhere fun, but I guess that's the times.
_________________________
texas

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#6215634 - 03/09/16 08:06 AM Re: Ranch / Lease liability waiver and insurance [Re: Scoop]
Rustler Online   content
Veteran Tracker

Registered: 03/01/07
Posts: 3211
Loc: Carrollton/ Young, Blanco coun...
I use Tx Farm Bureau for my liability policies, actually for all my rural insurance needs.
I use their office nearest to where the property is located.

There are a few other Ins co's that offer rural/farm/ranch/recreational property insurance.

Having at least liability on your rural property isn't anything new, it has been a wise thing to do for the last 40 - 50 years.

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#6216221 - 03/09/16 01:08 PM Re: Ranch / Lease liability waiver and insurance [Re: P1DTAY]
Scoop Offline


Registered: 01/13/09
Posts: 1953
Loc: North of San Antonio
Originally Posted By: P1DTAY
It is sad that these days we have to have conversations about a person suing after being invited somewhere fun, but I guess that's the times.


Yeah, you hear the stories, but this one hits too close. Very unsettling when you hear discussions about going after assets like that.

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#6225790 - 03/16/16 04:32 PM Re: Ranch / Lease liability waiver and insurance [Re: Scoop]
heredeer Offline
Bird Dog

Registered: 01/08/16
Posts: 312
It's a shame, but it's the way of the world now frown

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#6226659 - 03/17/16 10:37 AM Re: Ranch / Lease liability waiver and insurance [Re: Scoop]
HornSlayer Offline
Pro Tracker

Registered: 12/13/07
Posts: 1030
Loc: Azle, TX
What you haven't considered is a Ranch is a Business. You should protect it just like any other business asset. I recommend you not exchange access to the ranch for labor. If you need help at the ranch then hire it out and get the appropriate waivers. Just my 2 cents.

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#6248190 - 04/04/16 10:23 PM Re: Ranch / Lease liability waiver and insurance [Re: HornSlayer]
Scoop Offline


Registered: 01/13/09
Posts: 1953
Loc: North of San Antonio
Originally Posted By: HornSlayer
What you haven't considered is a Ranch is a Business. You should protect it just like any other business asset. I recommend you not exchange access to the ranch for labor. If you need help at the ranch then hire it out and get the appropriate waivers. Just my 2 cents.


I get your point, but I'm not looking to change how I use and enjoy the place. Have enough 'Businesses'. Don't want my ranch to be another one. I have fun working and improving the place with the help of friends. Not interested in watching a bunch of hired help with the meter running. Just looking for a good waiver and insurance to cover myself.

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#6248307 - 04/05/16 06:05 AM Re: Ranch / Lease liability waiver and insurance [Re: Scoop]
tlk Online   content
Pro Tracker

Registered: 07/25/13
Posts: 1972
all guest and lease members sign our waiver - I also carry a 2 million excess umbrella liability policy - they are not expensive
_________________________
You can't fix stupid

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#6248311 - 04/05/16 06:18 AM Re: Ranch / Lease liability waiver and insurance [Re: Scoop]
decook Online   content
Pro Tracker

Registered: 08/26/09
Posts: 1213
Loc: Montgomery, TX USA
I don't understand it. Unless the landowner intentionally does something to cause harm. Getting hurt isn't any fun. I broke my right leg two years ago at my last lease. I slipped and fell coming out of the camper with my first cup of coffee. It wasn't the landowners fault. I guess litigate is the American way.
_________________________
Press for an AMERICAN.

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#6248399 - 04/05/16 08:01 AM Re: Ranch / Lease liability waiver and insurance [Re: Scoop]
Mr. T. Online   content
Pro Tracker

Registered: 11/05/14
Posts: 1613
Loc: Fort Worth - Hunt in Eastland ...
Let me explain this in the way the world really works. It's not the honest hunter coming out of the camper who fails and hurts himself that will sue you. It is the dishonest lawyer who gets with the mans wife after he falls from a stand and break his neck that will cause you the problem when they do everything they can to take everything you got.
_________________________
Ski cabin rental in Pagosa Springs.
www.pagosaspringscabin.com

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#6248420 - 04/05/16 08:20 AM Re: Ranch / Lease liability waiver and insurance [Re: decook]
tlk Online   content
Pro Tracker

Registered: 07/25/13
Posts: 1972
Originally Posted By: decook
I don't understand it. Unless the landowner intentionally does something to cause harm. Getting hurt isn't any fun. I broke my right leg two years ago at my last lease. I slipped and fell coming out of the camper with my first cup of coffee. It wasn't the landowners fault. I guess litigate is the American way.


Riding your 4 wheeler/atv on ranch road and there is a bump or hole in the road that causes you to crash and be injured.

Deer stand on lease owned by ranch owner - rail on steps breaks and you fall and break your neck.

Can go on and on.
_________________________
You can't fix stupid

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#6248422 - 04/05/16 08:21 AM Re: Ranch / Lease liability waiver and insurance [Re: Scoop]
HS2 Offline
Woodsman

Registered: 06/26/14
Posts: 162
The laws in Texas are set up to protect landowners. Specifically, Title 4 Chapter 75 of the Texas Civil Code, "Limitations of Landowners' Liability," specifically says that if a landowner gives permission to someone to enter their property, the landowner is not assuring the property is safe for any activity. Legally in Texas, guests and tresspassers are specifically denied the right to sue if they get injured during the normal course of recreation or other activities on a landowner's property. The law specifically says that the landowner is not guaranteeing the property is safe for any activity and people cannot sue except for acts of "willful and wanton acts of gross negligence" which is rather hard to prove. It would have to be something like a toxic waste dump in a swimming pool with a sign that says "swim here" or something like that. Nothing in the normal course of any regular activity, including someone doing something stupid like falling into a cactus and getting their eye poked out, will give a right to sue. Falling off a deer stand, steps breaking and people getting injured, falling in holes, running into barbed wire........getting injured from all of that type of stuff is specifically denied the right to sue, even for tresspassers. The article I read quoted a lawyer that said that in all his years of practice in Texas, he had never seen someone sue a landowner for getting injured on someone's property. So your friend is welcome to try to sue for their son getting injured, but they won't win and their attorney knows it. The only one that will get any money is their attorney.

I looked all this up for the exact some reason. I looked up the law to make sure and keep a copy of it handy. Further, I don't live on the property and simply extended my homeowner's policy to cover the land for liability, which was very reasonable. I did make a list of rules of what people can do and not do on the property.....it's really a permission slip in case some neighbor or a game warden stops them.....and on it I mention that the property has all the risks of anything outdoors. I always mention to people that I'm not guaranteeting that the property is safe and I talk about how to not get hurt.....that's just the safe thing to do. But I don't worry about people suing me because they won't win. They can't in Texas. I'm more worried about losing a friend, and I never like to see people get hurt.

Don't make enemies out of friends for needless worry about legal matters.



Edited by HS2 (04/05/16 08:32 AM)

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