Does this banny rooster talk actually work for you?

Sooner or later the talking stops and the action takes place.....I agree with you that you should hope our paths don't cross under those circumstances.

You guys just don't get it. Trespassing with your dogs chasing hogs on my property is a threat to my life, and that doesn't have to mean life and death for me, my family or my livestock. It disrupts what we work hard for every day....the life we build for ourselves. What did your parents teach you growing up?

Some years ago there was a pack of dogs chasing something on my place. I went to investigate. There were 4 of them, and they started at me. Lucky they were coming slowly enough. I got 3 of them and the 4th retired from the field. Since then I have been less tolerant of dogs on my place that I don't recognize as belonging to a neighbor. I still have a problem blasting dogs, though. Last year or the year before, I had two hog dogs (wearing tracker collars and red checkered cloth around their necks) running a medium sized pig, and they caught him in my side yard. Each dog had a grip on one end of the pig. I shot the pig from between the dogs. If I see them again, I can't say that I won't shoot them. An uninvited hunting dog is exactly that - uninvited - and I don't want to hear any BS about the whys and wherefores. I DO NOT want to shoot somebody's hog dogs, so don't put me in the position of having to make that decision.

Solves the problem now doesn't it......stay off my property and all of this is a non-issue.....

No reason you should be defensive about the lawbreaking perpetrated by your counterparts. I am sure if your dogs end up on someone's property and you contact the BEFORE making entry or go through the game warden to assist you, there will be no problem. You aren't the type of person people are complaining about. You just happen to be in a hobby that has fallen into his disfavor by a lot of people because your counterparts have not abided by the law. You are going to remain sick and tired of there being threats to dogs because your counterparts keep letting their dogs run illegally and keep trespassing after them illegally.

My first contact with a hog dogger was classic. Was in the local cafe looking at game cam images from my property when this guy approached me and said he saw the pics of hogs and that he could help me out. When I asked how, he said he ran dogs. I thanked him politely, explaining that my place was too small to run dogs effectively and that the hogs would be off the property inside of 30 seconds, crossing over to the neighbor's places where I don't have permission to go. The guy, straight faced, said to me something along the lines of, "Fences are no problems for us. We go through the wire [quads] and just fix it on our way back out." I said, "You cut the wire?" and he replied, "Yeah. How else do we get our quadrunners through?"

That is the exact wrong attitude.

Oh...that's nothing. Just go onto any number of Hog Dogging forums and search "tresspassing" or any other buzz word. Be ready to be astonished at the 'bluster' (or not) printed there. Unbelievable some of the attitudes. Talk about killing anyone that would harm their dogs, burning property, blatantly stating they WILL follow their dogs wherever they go and will just take whatever comes.

http://www.easttexashogdoggers.com/forum/index.php?action=search2

I know there are responsible Hog Doggers out there, I want to say that AGAIN, but I've personally met very few. If they don't get a handle on the BAD doggers soon, the sport is going to go the way of hunting deer with dogs, GONE!

Flintknapper...I did the search and you are right. They consider trespassing to be ok and just a normal part of their hunting. Pretty astonishing lack of respect for other people's property rights.

YUP

In counties with leash laws, a dog's owner is generally required to be in control of that dog. Either physically by leash or by voice command. If that uncontrolled dog trespasses onto another person's property, where permission has not been granted, then the animal is considered "Running at large", which is a criminal violation. Unauthorized entry onto the property to recover the dogs is also a criminal violation (trespassing). If the purpose of that trespassing has to do with hunting, then there are also additional criminal violations that apply under the TPW Code.

If your dogs are running or harassing livestock or wildlife on property belonging to another and without consent of the owner, then the owner, his agent, or designee has the right to dispatch that dog for depredation. And in this case, feral hogs do constitute "wildlife".

Best advise I can offer to hog doggers, keep your dogs where they belong or run the risk of the consequences...natural and/or legal.

Last time I checked feral hogs were considered livestock by the TAHC, and there are regulations about transporting live ones. As livestock, those dogs are harassing your livestock. Feral hogs on your property are considered YOURS, and belong to you. I don't think many landowners realize this.

You can read about TAHC regulations regarding feral hogs here: TAHC Feral Swine Regs

It is true that Feral Hogs have been re-classified as 'Exotic Livestock'...and as such are the property of Land Owner (technically).

http://feralhogs.tamu.edu/files/2011/08/Feral-Hog-Laws-and-Regulations-in-Texas.pdf



But the stipulation for 'ownership' is that the Hogs are under the 'care' or 'control' of the Land Owner/Lessee/Agent.

Fortunately, that requirement found in Texas Agriculture Code Section 161.002. is written rather broadly and tends to favor the Land Owner should an issue arise.




BUT.....until a case actually goes to court to lend supporting 'Case Law', I suspect we will continue to see this problem (Hog Dogs and Hog Doggers), with 'trespass' being about the strictest penalty.

Additionally, it is important for Land Owners to know WHO to call if they have a problem. Game Wardens typically handle game related offences (though they are fully commissioned Officers of the Law). They will be the persons most likely to harshly cite someone.

The Sheriffs department might be able to respond more quickly, but they don't usually involve themselves in game laws and are probably not well versed where the laws may overlap (game/criminal).

But...'Trespass' (in its various forms) can be handled by either the Sheriffs Dept or a Game Warden. Personally, I'd get a GW involved...since there is too much chance a 'local' might be the offender. I've heard of Deputy's exercising their 'discretion' and no meaningful charges being brought.

Lastly, the TAHC is charged with enforcing regulations related to the transportation, feeding and keeping of 'live' Feral Hogs. Generally, they would not be involved directly with a Land Owner.

Anyway, this issue with certain Hog Doggers will 'evolve' for the better IF there is an effort made to educate both Land Owners and Hog Doggers of the new classification and what it means to both party's.

Of course the simple solution would be for HD's to control their dogs, respect property lines and rights.... and maybe raise their 'ethics' just a tad.

Hog Doggers are quickly getting a Bad Name many places...because of the actions of a certain number of them.

I know I've had my fill of them!

Not to 'labor' the point, but this is why I don't want Hog Doggers running through our property without permission. Year 'round I am actively trapping hogs and more often than not, it involves an investment in time and bait.

It is not unusual for me to spend a week (or more) conditioning the hogs to go into a trap, only to have them run off the property by someone with no permission to be there.

I finally got this small group to start going back into the trap. I set the trigger wire last night and checked the trap this morning. Four small Boars and a Sow (Gilt).

Again, I have nothing against the 'sport' of hunting hogs with Dogs. I do consider it inefficient (when compared to other methods) but that is fine...as long as it isn't affecting me.

I prefer to take them out by the trailer load.

That top pig has some great color and spots

As I already said, I can count on one hand the number of times I have had a problem stopping my dogs before they got on property where I do not already know the landowner and have an agreement with them. What gets me are these dead on site attitudes. If I have ran my dogs for years down the road from you and my dogs have never stepped foot on your place, you think it's ok to kill them the first time they do. We are all hunters and if some of y'all would remove the plug from your butt and go hunting with someone that runs their dogs the way I do you may see we're not all the same. That's like saying all deer hunters use a spotlight and poach just because a lot of people do. How many of you guys would call in a tracking dog to help find your wounded deer? Do I have the right to shoot that dog as soon as it crosses on to my property trailing your wounded trophy? You guys that are saying the dogs are threatening your life, c'mon that's the dumbest thing I've ever heard.

I have hunted behind a lot of dogs and we never crossed onto someone else's property. Truly enjoyed it.

Comparing doggers and their attitude to deer hunters and spotlighting is just ridiculous. I have never met a hunter that not only justifies a criminal act, but advocates for others to break the same law.

Show me a thread where the whitetail hunters justify and advocate spotlighting, encourage others to spotlight, and ridicule anyone that says spotlighting is wrong because it is their "right".

They make a cream for that

yes shoot on sight

Bone I got this here hurt feelings report I need you to fill out

First off you have to have feelings to get them hurt. Second I am not the kind of hunter that does not care about crossing property lines. I'm not saying I am perfect or that my dogs know the property boundaries so yes there is always a chance my dogs may cross a fence. I can usually call them back fairly quick if they are not hot on the heels of a pig and I am not just going to cross a fence chasing them without permission. I do not hunt my dogs in daylight during deer season because I do not want to take the chance of messing up anyone's hunt. This is not because I intend on trespassing but rather just in case someone is hunting near by that I am not aware of. I have nothing to hide, every one of my dogs has my full name and cell phone number on their collar. If my dogs are ever on any of yalls property a simple phone call saying hey I found your dogs will solve the entire problem. Shooting my dogs and then telling me they were chasing anything other then a pig or posed a threat to you, then now you are just a pathetic liar because I know better. I do not run junk dogs, my dogs are hunted around deer, cattle, and anything else you can imagine but they are 100% hog dogs! In fact I run my dogs the hardest around my deer feeders the month before deer season to keep the hogs off my feeders and I have more deer traffic after I do. So I can say without a doubt my dogs catching hogs does nothing but increase my deer activity. Bottom line is y'all aren't mad at the dogs your mad at the handlers. All I was saying in my previous posts is to be careful how you deal with some of those guys. Laugh at me or try to push my buttons all you want! My skin is far to thick to give a damn! Good luck to you all.

You know, it never fails. When hog dogging becomes the subject there tends to be strong feelings on both sides of the issue. I've hunted behind dogs, and had a good time. I've even owned some of my own hog dogs, and enjoyed hunting them. I mostly hunted SHNF when they allowed hog dogging there. The group of guys I hunted with were very careful with their dogs, and had a good handle on them. We didn't have any landowner issues.

With that said, I've also owned a small piece of land and had some serious problems with dogs on it. I've had problems with both pets and hunting dogs. I've had similar problems on deer leases with pets and hunting dogs. On a few of the leases the unwritten rule was that if a dog, any dog, was sighted running on the lease during the deer hunting season they were to be taken out of the gene pool, period. While I never shot one, I am pretty sure there a few taken out of the gene pool. There were lots of issues in some area's with hog doggers running their dogs at night, and disregarding fences and property lines. Many folks had them on game camera's going by their feeders. Corn feeders are a favorite place for hog doggers to start their dogs.

The bottom line as I see it is that land owners have the right to be free from dogs running their land, and dog owners trespassing on their land. Hogs are classified as exotic livestock, and belong to the landowners to do with as they see fit. My personal feelings are that the charges and fines for trespassing should be much stiffer. Then these hog doggers who think they can go where ever they want to might think twice about it. And, quite honestly, if their dogs get shot on someones property where they didn't have permission to hunt it's the dog handlers fault. Stay on property where you have permission to hunt. And, if that property is not large enough to hold your dogs don't hunt there. Go where you have permission and the property is large enough they won't wander off of it. Period, end of story.

Yea, I prefer to take out a trailer load myself.


Sometimes I'll even take a friend with me. I'm on the right.

Gentlemen, please keep your responses 'civil'. Otherwise you are going to get this thread locked by attacking one another instead of talking about the issues. Once the tread is closed...we lose our ability to discuss potential remedies for the problem.

As I've already said, it is not my intention to disparage an entire group of people and I know there are responsible Hog Doggers out there. BUT in my part of Deep East Texas there DOES exist a lot of unprincipled guys running dogs.

If that doesn't change SOON....you might well expect to see legislation calling for much stiffer fines and penalties in the future.

This just doesn't have to be!

Certain Hog Doggers are their own worst enemy. I wish they could see that.

Flintknapper you are correct some Hog Doggers are their own worst enemy. It appears you are having to deal with the worst type, and I think if handled properly this would no longer be an issue.

I have been hog dogging for almost 10 years and i understand entirely where Bone is coming from. I can count on one hand how many times my dogs have gotten off the hunting property and onto a property i did not have permission to access. Most times they can be called back but if chasing a hog they will not stop. In every situation that i could not call them back I found the land owner or called the game warden so I could retrieve my dogs. Every time that has occurred I had no problem retrieving my dogs and was allowed to retrieve them any time after the initial incident after a phone call. Of course i did not approach the situation with any sense of entitlement and was courteous/apologetic for the inconvenience.

I can also understand where Bone is coming from a lot of blood, sweat, and tears goes into these dogs and to hear people say they will kill your dog and toss your collar just for seeing your dog will get under your skin pretty quick. if you will indulge look at it this way, if your dog got out of your yard and the neighbor down the street shot your dog just for being in their yard how would you feel?

In the end, some hog doggers are not worth much and i hate to be associated with that type in any way. Flintknapper i feel you have done them solid with your first encounter and now with repeat offenses you should do what you need to solve the issue, whatever that may be. Sorry to hear you are dealing with these people.

Yep. There are definately some bad ones out there. Those that cut fences, purposely hunt your property etc are real chit heads. I've been around and hunted with some of those and no longer associate with them. I hunt with a good group of pig doggers. I SMDH at some of you "shoot on site guys". You go ahead and do that to a real pig dog that screws up/goes long and crosses a fence. See how that works out for you.