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#6188488 - 02/18/16 07:15 AM Axis Deer Kill Garner State Park by Contractor?
Stub Offline
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Registered: 04/27/05
Posts: 12407
Reading the Lone star Outdoor News and it states; Texas Parks and Wildlife used a combination of Fee Paid Public Hunting and FREE Contractor to kill 100 of the estimated 200 Axis deer in the park.

The Rub is they charge the public $$ to hunt, yet the contractor Pays Nothing confused2
It also implies that the contractor got to hunt first making it more difficult for the public hunters hammer

The contractor is doing the State a favor by Not Charging $$ but keeping the meat scratch Do you think he is selling the meat for a pretty penny?
I firmly believe they have it backwards, free hunt for the public (some type of draw) who already supports the park system when we buy our license, if more needed harvesting then charge a contractor a nominal fee to harvest the deficiency, they will still make $$ selling the meat!

What say you ?
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#6188495 - 02/18/16 07:20 AM Re: Axis Deer Kill Garner State Park by Contractor? [Re: Stub]
kdkane1971 Offline
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Registered: 01/30/14
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#6188504 - 02/18/16 07:27 AM Re: Axis Deer Kill Garner State Park by Contractor? [Re: Stub]
stxranchman Offline
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Registered: 08/04/10
Posts: 52092
I would think the contractor is going to use a silencer and shoot from a longer distance. The contractor must also have a cleaning trailer with a cooler, two or more people to skin/clean axis and pay a meat inspector(per day, everyday they killed) to be on sight for each animal harvested. He is able to sell the meat and make money if he is getting the animals killed in a timely fashion. I know when I went on one of the ranches that used to sell axis to a contractor like this, the contractor wanted a full ton of carcass weight axis deer per trip. He wanted to get that amount in one night of hunting to make it profitable. He then paid the ranch owner based off the amount he took and how quickly he took that quantity. IIRC it took about 30 axis spikes to make a full ton of whole carcasses. It will take more axis doe and less if using older bucks. The best carcass price was on the spikes/does because of quality. The contractor had no problem selling the prime cuts. The trimmings/hamburger(which he paid the same carcass weight price as loins/hindquarters for) was where he struggled to find the market for them. Back when I went with them in the early 90's to view the harvest, they had over 50,000 lbs of hamburger trimmings in cold storage with no market at that time. The contractor will make money, but that depends on how quickly he gets his 100 animals off. The first few hit the ground quickly then after that it will take more time. That time is costing him money. The contractor can get more deer off faster if conditions are good.
Same would be if they are trying to live catch and then to sell them alive. Lot of expense in the trap, baiting, man power, equipment to handle/move, etc. Shooting them could be faster than trapping them if it goes to raining or greening up. Both methods have expense on the contractor end, but they will make some money. They can't pay the help for without it. I would think that both methods will be faster than using public hunting to remove that amount of animals. I would also think the expense of running a public hunt vs having a contractor would be less with the contractor. One employee can be with the contractor whereas it would take many more to run the public hunts and more days to get the deer off. Not sure the park would have enough employees to do this in a timely fashion(days to shut down).
I am for the public hunting, but it sounds like they have a serious issue with numbers. Then I would say get the mouths off as quickly as you can. The habitat is getting hammered with that many excess deer on the place.
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#6188572 - 02/18/16 08:00 AM Re: Axis Deer Kill Garner State Park by Contractor? [Re: Stub]
Stub Offline
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Registered: 04/27/05
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stranchman: Good insight on the what the contractor has to do to make a profit and the time tables to make it happen.
I also realize it is more of a challenge for the Parks and Wildlife Department to deal with the Public than a contractor.

But the Bottom line in my humble opinion is that Garner State Park is a Public Park supported by our tax dollars and proceeds from our hunting license. The Parks & Wildlife Department should do Everything and I mean Everything possible to make it a beneficial hunt for the Public Hunter First, then take whatever ever actions they deem necessary after up


Edited by Stub (02/18/16 08:01 AM)
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#6188589 - 02/18/16 08:07 AM Re: Axis Deer Kill Garner State Park by Contractor? [Re: Stub]
z71dustin Offline
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Registered: 10/27/09
Posts: 11080
I went on a axis hunt there a few years back. It was interesting to sit in a popup blind in a campsite. I didn't get anything

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#6188599 - 02/18/16 08:10 AM Re: Axis Deer Kill Garner State Park by Contractor? [Re: z71dustin]
Stub Offline
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Registered: 04/27/05
Posts: 12407
Originally Posted By: z71dustin
I went on a axis hunt there a few years back. It was interesting to sit in a popup blind in a campsite. I didn't get
anything


You sat in a popup blind inside a campsite confused2 What kind of hunting/movement restriction did they have, were you the only one hunting in this campsite?


Edited by Stub (02/18/16 08:11 AM)
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#6188615 - 02/18/16 08:16 AM Re: Axis Deer Kill Garner State Park by Contractor? [Re: Stub]
stxranchman Offline
Obie Juan Kenobi

Registered: 08/04/10
Posts: 52092
You are only thinking of one side in this. How about the public side who wants to use the park for recreation/camping and not have it closed down for x amount of extra days while the rest of the public is hunting? Peak season for park use is here for camping. They can't have that amount of hunting and then campers in the park at the same time. They have to balance both. Who is going to scream the loudest wins this one. I am betting the camping/recreational use side has huge numbers and a strong voice in this. TPWD has to balance both sides, not just the side someone wants based on their own personal needs/wants.
So Stub start screaming very loudly if you want to win this one against TPWD. cheers
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#6188632 - 02/18/16 08:22 AM Re: Axis Deer Kill Garner State Park by Contractor? [Re: stxranchman]
Pitchfork Predator Offline
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Registered: 01/25/13
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Loc: Murphy, TX Dickens county
Originally Posted By: stxranchman
You are only thinking of one side in this. How about the public side who wants to use the park for recreation/camping and not have it closed down for x amount of extra days while the rest of the public is hunting? Peak season for park use is here for camping. They can't have that amount of hunting and then campers in the park at the same time. They have to balance both. Who is going to scream the loudest wins this one. I am betting the camping/recreational use side has huge numbers and a strong voice in this. TPWD has to balance both sides, not just the side someone wants based on their own personal needs/wants.
So Stub start screaming very loudly if you want to win this one against TPWD. cheers


Thanks for the perspective. I have to admit at first glance I was thinking this doesn't sound right. As much as I enjoy eating Axis though, I would of loved to hunt that beautiful park for them. up
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#6188654 - 02/18/16 08:30 AM Re: Axis Deer Kill Garner State Park by Contractor? [Re: Stub]
txtrophy85 Offline
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Registered: 08/12/05
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lets be honest here, public hunting is not the most efficient way to remove animals
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Originally Posted By: Nogalus Prairie
I think the deer hunting shows and "Bro' Country" are going to be the downfall of this once-great nation.

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#6188658 - 02/18/16 08:31 AM Re: Axis Deer Kill Garner State Park by Contractor? [Re: stxranchman]
Stub Offline
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Originally Posted By: stxranchman
You are only thinking of one side in this. How about the public side who wants to use the park for recreation/camping and not have it closed down for x amount of extra days while the rest of the public is hunting? Peak season for park use is here for camping. They can't have that amount of hunting and then campers in the park at the same time. They have to balance both. Who is going to scream the loudest wins this one. I am betting the camping/recreational use side has huge numbers and a strong voice in this. TPWD has to balance both sides, not just the side someone wants based on their own personal needs/wants.
So Stub start screaming very loudly if you want to win this one against TPWD. cheers


Dang you stxranchman you keep bringing up all of these valid points grin
Okay at the very least the Public Hunters should go first, then let the contractors do their thing.

On the hikers, campers and hunters there should be a balance. The hikers and campers would have it basically for 10 or 11 months, take one or two winter months say January or February when hiking and camping is not very desirable and have hunting only up


Edited by Stub (02/18/16 08:32 AM)
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#6188663 - 02/18/16 08:34 AM Re: Axis Deer Kill Garner State Park by Contractor? [Re: Stub]
EddieWalker Offline
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Registered: 08/06/14
Posts: 1175
Loc: Tyler, TX
Back in California in the East Bay there is a park called Coyote Hills that had too many blacktail deer. They are native to the area, but with a limited amount of land, they had to do something to control their numbers. The Park District hired a helicopter guy from New Zealand to come out and capture the does and sterilize them at a cost of a hundred grand. It was big news, front page stuff that made everyone happy.

A Game Warden used to hang out at my taxidermist and he told me that when the show for the public was over, they hired a pro to go into the park at night and kill most of the deer to get the numbers down where they needed to be. Their where some nice bucks in there, and I was upset that they where just wasted, but understand how things work in CA and that it needed to be done. The pro got it done in a couple of days and the Game Wardens hauled off the dead deer. I don't remember what they did with them.

My guess is that it's just faster and easier to have a pro who doesn't' have to fallow any hunting regulations go in there and get it done all at once. I'm just surprised that they admit to it.

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#6188885 - 02/18/16 10:09 AM Re: Axis Deer Kill Garner State Park by Contractor? [Re: EddieWalker]
txtrophy85 Offline
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Registered: 08/12/05
Posts: 22039
Originally Posted By: EddieWalker
Back in California in the East Bay there is a park called Coyote Hills that had too many blacktail deer. They are native to the area, but with a limited amount of land, they had to do something to control their numbers. The Park District hired a helicopter guy from New Zealand to come out and capture the does and sterilize them at a cost of a hundred grand. It was big news, front page stuff that made everyone happy.

A Game Warden used to hang out at my taxidermist and he told me that when the show for the public was over, they hired a pro to go into the park at night and kill most of the deer to get the numbers down where they needed to be. Their where some nice bucks in there, and I was upset that they where just wasted, but understand how things work in CA and that it needed to be done. The pro got it done in a couple of days and the Game Wardens hauled off the dead deer. I don't remember what they did with them.

My guess is that it's just faster and easier to have a pro who doesn't' have to fallow any hunting regulations go in there and get it done all at once. I'm just surprised that they admit to it.




also you have a professional who is doing the culling not joe hunter who may or may not be skilled in taking animals.

when we have to harvest does in large numbers we do it ourselves, sure we could sell doe hunts at $150/doe but then you have to deal with putting up the hunters, missed shots, etc. its not efficient in the least.

state is looking at it the same way.
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Originally Posted By: Nogalus Prairie
I think the deer hunting shows and "Bro' Country" are going to be the downfall of this once-great nation.

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#6189187 - 02/18/16 12:31 PM Re: Axis Deer Kill Garner State Park by Contractor? [Re: Stub]
oozzyy Offline
Tracker

Registered: 10/16/07
Posts: 552
Loc: Texas , Wilson
The question to ask is why did Garner State Park restrict the hunters from shooting the exotics during a payed hunt? They would only let you take 1 buck. If they are having a problem with axis why no standbys. I think they feel like they are there pets and do not want anyone to hunt them. Like the South Llano State Park. Why not let the park make some extra money by doing more hunts with standbys or just having more hunt because they only have a few hunts a year, again the park does not want anybody shooting there pets. This problem with axis did not just pop up over night but they have been restricting hunters for years and years now. They only have a few hunts a year with no standbys and I'm sure the wildlife biologist has been telling them for years about this problem. Garner State Park should have a management plan for the deer and exotics so this did not just popup. I know the state wants to keep everything native.

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#6191619 - 02/19/16 10:31 PM Re: Axis Deer Kill Garner State Park by Contractor? [Re: Stub]
BaffinBoy Offline
Woodsman

Registered: 01/02/12
Posts: 162
Loc: San Antonio
kinda a side question.... I live in San Antonio and have noticed a lot more venison on menu in higher end restaurants like at the Pear Brewery, is it more than likely axis? They say it's local but I thought whitetail was illegal to serve.

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#6191714 - 02/20/16 02:27 AM Re: Axis Deer Kill Garner State Park by Contractor? [Re: Stub]
kweber Offline
Woodsman

Registered: 09/03/15
Posts: 196
it's all about public safety...

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