texashuntingforum.com logo
Main Menu
Advertisement
Affiliates
Advertisement
Newest Members
nmmuledeerhunter, Dzia-Dzia, TraeMartin, Beatixre, MooseSteed
71989 Registered Users
Top Posters(All Time)
dogcatcher 110,788
bill oxner 91,416
SnakeWrangler 65,417
stxranchman 60,296
Gravytrain 46,950
RKHarm24 44,585
rifleman 44,461
Stub 43,769
Forum Statistics
Forums46
Topics537,041
Posts9,719,733
Members86,989
Most Online25,604
Feb 12th, 2024
Print Thread
Page 1 of 2 1 2
Load work up what do yall do? #6184324 02/15/16 06:00 PM
Joined: Feb 2011
Posts: 6,183
M
Mike Honcho Offline OP
THF Trophy Hunter
OP Offline
THF Trophy Hunter
M
Joined: Feb 2011
Posts: 6,183
So i typically start at min ladder up to max in 1gr increments. See what is the tightest between 2 charges and then bump up .3gr increments between the two. If nothing is satisfactory. depending on what showed promise, low end or high end i move to that range oustide of min/max by .3gr


“Two things that define an individual what you do when you have everything, and what you do when you have nothing."


Re: Load work up what do yall do? [Re: Mike Honcho] #6184374 02/15/16 06:22 PM
Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 39,481
R
redchevy Offline
THF Celebrity
Offline
THF Celebrity
R
Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 39,481
First step figure out where the bullet your loading likes to be seated in relation to the lands and then load from mid range up to max in .3 gr. increments and shoot.


It's hell eatin em live
Re: Load work up what do yall do? [Re: Mike Honcho] #6184376 02/15/16 06:25 PM
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 19,169
J
Judd Online Confused
#1 Creedmoor Fan
Online Confused
#1 Creedmoor Fan
J
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 19,169
I don't guns with large case capacities so my ladders are always .3 grains apart and I use a ladder. To me 1 grain is to big of a window for me to work in...example on a 6br 30 grains is fine but 31 and I could have a huge mess on my hands.

Only time I don't use a ladder is I know a specific range I'll end up in and I just work within that range.

Oh and I always shoot my ladders .010 jammed. I want to know where pressure is and look for nodes. So then when I back of the lands I'm actually lowering pressure (I know there is a point where I could build back up because I'm decreasing case capacity but I don't normally jump stuff that far).


Originally Posted by Phil Robertson
Don't let your ears hear what your eyes didn't see, and don't let your mouth say what your heart doesn't feel
Re: Load work up what do yall do? [Re: Mike Honcho] #6184399 02/15/16 06:45 PM
Joined: Nov 2007
Posts: 9,502
R
RiverRider Offline
THF Trophy Hunter
Offline
THF Trophy Hunter
R
Joined: Nov 2007
Posts: 9,502
When trying out an unfamiliar combination of components, I'll go through what I call pressure trials to see what I can determine to be a safe range of powder charges. I load two of each charge and shoot them over a chronograph. I use QL and published data to evaluate pressure, and watch for pressure signs too. If velocity begins to climb beyond what I think indicates safe pressures, I won't fire any of the higher charges. As I'm doing this I watch for signs of a load wanting to shoot---or maybe its better to say I watch for charges that DON'T want to shoot.

I usually see a charge or two that show some promise, so my next step is three or five round groups. If all goes well and a particular charge stands out, then I'll fiddle with seating depth. I usually start out about a tenth of a caliber off the lands, but by the time I've come this far I'll usually vary seating depth in 0.005" increments down to 0.003" increments, depending on bullet diameter.


[Linked Image]

"Arguing with you always makes me thirsty."

-Augustus McRae
Re: Load work up what do yall do? [Re: Mike Honcho] #6184402 02/15/16 06:46 PM
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 41,085
J.G. Online Content
THF Celebrity
Online Content
THF Celebrity
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 41,085
Find out "the" powder for the bullet I am running in a specific cartridge. This site is a good place to pick people's brains.

Find the rifling, and seat the bullet even with the lands. Check that the cartridge fits in the Mag. If it won't then I'm bound by Mag length.

Short action cartridges:

Research Hodgdon's max, as well as two books. Go with the highest max. I back off from Max in .3 gr increments looking for around 9-12 rounds. Shoot the ladder, shoot groups of the charges within the node. I like 500 yards better than 300 yards when it is a custom rifle.

Long action I do the same thing, start at max and back off, but in .4 gr increments.

If you give me a new rifle, same barrel length, with a cartridge and bullet combination I have loaded for I will skip the ladder test and go straight to group shooting. 6.5 Crredmoor, for instance, I'm going to shoot a 140 gr, H-4350, and load between 41.8 gr and 42.8 gr. Give me any .308 Win shooting a 175 SMK or 178 A-Max and H-Varget and I will group shoot 43.5 gr to 45.0 gr.

Chad doesn't ladder test because he is a walking loading manual. He can go straight to groups because he know about where they will shoot for a huge list of cartridges.


[Linked Image]
800 Yard Steel Range
Precision Rifle Instruction
Memberships and Classes Available
Re: Load work up what do yall do? [Re: Mike Honcho] #6184442 02/15/16 07:13 PM
Joined: Jul 2012
Posts: 15,606
6
603Country Online Content
THF Celebrity
Online Content
THF Celebrity
6
Joined: Jul 2012
Posts: 15,606
My approach, over the last 35 years or so, has been modified several times. So, these days, if one of you nice fellows gave me a new 243, which I don't now load for, I'd do a little research on best powder, which would include asking ya'll about it and checking manuals. I'd probably shoot a Nosler BT or Sierra GK, so I'd pick the one - probably 100 grains. I'd probably get some Norma or Lapua brass. I'd work up loads from about midpoint, rather than the minimum, and load them to factory COAL. I would pay close attention to what the Nosler book says is the most accurate powder charge, since their suggested loads for my other rifles are almost exactly what I have found to be my most accurate loads (can't be a coincidence). I'd progress in .3 gr increases and shoot 3 shot groups till I found the ones that look good and then I'd go to 5 shot groups. I'd clean the barrel often during work up unless I found that it didn't foul badly. I won't assume that a barrel doesn't foul.

Once I find what I think is my load, I'll wait till the next morning and shoot a 3 shot group from a cold bore, and I might shoot more than 3. And then, I'll fiddle with COAL.

I didn't fiddle with COAL for the 260, since I didn't really think that trying for a smaller one hole group was worth the effort. I'm still at factory COAL, whereas for the 223, 220, and 270 I'm closer to the lands.


Not my monkeys, not my circus...
Re: Load work up what do yall do? [Re: 603Country] #6184477 02/15/16 07:40 PM
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 41,085
J.G. Online Content
THF Celebrity
Online Content
THF Celebrity
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 41,085
Might I suggest, sir.

Book C.O.A.L. is elementary school. Join us in high school, get some bullet comparators, try the cut neck method we have talked about so many times, and learn where the rifling is in your chamber. Not knowing where your rifling is and using SAAMI specs means you could be handicapping your self some.

Just a suggestion.


[Linked Image]
800 Yard Steel Range
Precision Rifle Instruction
Memberships and Classes Available
Re: Load work up what do yall do? [Re: Mike Honcho] #6184596 02/15/16 09:04 PM
Joined: Aug 2011
Posts: 1,682
C
cmorsch Offline
Pro Tracker
Offline
Pro Tracker
C
Joined: Aug 2011
Posts: 1,682
It depends on the rifle and what its intended purpose is going to be. For my long range rig I decided that I only want to single feed it so I don't worry about mag length. I'm actually approx 1/3 of a inch longer then the mag box for it. But before that I pick the bullet, and brass I want to use. Then I pick the powder and primer. After this I check my chamber using a OAL guage and bullet comparators, followed by several groups in either .5 or .3 grain increments usually starting at 1/2-2/3 max load, working my way up to max load. Once I get a group that I like how its shooting, I check it for ES and SD with my chronograph, and if need be play with seating depth lastly.
Thats a short version of it anyways.

Last edited by cmorsch; 02/15/16 09:05 PM.
Re: Load work up what do yall do? [Re: Mike Honcho] #6184891 02/16/16 12:30 AM
Joined: Jul 2012
Posts: 15,606
6
603Country Online Content
THF Celebrity
Online Content
THF Celebrity
6
Joined: Jul 2012
Posts: 15,606
Fireman, if you are talking to me, try to not be so patronizing. It's offensive and unwarranted.


Not my monkeys, not my circus...
Re: Load work up what do yall do? [Re: 603Country] #6184944 02/16/16 12:51 AM
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 41,085
J.G. Online Content
THF Celebrity
Online Content
THF Celebrity
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 41,085
I started the post with a "sir"

Was trying to add some humor in the middle.

And ended it with a "just a suggestion"

I can't get any nicer than that. I will keep it all to myself when it pertains to you, if my gentlest attempt is still offensive.

Carry on.


[Linked Image]
800 Yard Steel Range
Precision Rifle Instruction
Memberships and Classes Available
Re: Load work up what do yall do? [Re: Mike Honcho] #6184997 02/16/16 01:12 AM
Joined: Nov 2010
Posts: 5,985
M
Michael W. Offline
THF Trophy Hunter
Offline
THF Trophy Hunter
M
Joined: Nov 2010
Posts: 5,985
Most accurate was always my goal. I started at the min. in the loading book and worked up in .3 gr. increments. I seldom got to the max before I found the most accurate. Groups would get smaller as I worked up the ladder and then would open up as some point. Once I found the most accurate I would then work up and down a bit to fine tune.



A clear conscience is often the sign of a fuzzy memory.
Re: Load work up what do yall do? [Re: Mike Honcho] #6185011 02/16/16 01:17 AM
Joined: Jul 2012
Posts: 15,606
6
603Country Online Content
THF Celebrity
Online Content
THF Celebrity
6
Joined: Jul 2012
Posts: 15,606
You weren't trying to be nice and you weren't funny. Just plain rude, and you know it. I notice that you get that way sometimes when you talk down to us ignorant mortals when we diverge from the approved 'fireman' method.


Not my monkeys, not my circus...
Re: Load work up what do yall do? [Re: Mike Honcho] #6185037 02/16/16 01:22 AM
Joined: Oct 2009
Posts: 563
R
rrflyer Offline
Tracker
Offline
Tracker
R
Joined: Oct 2009
Posts: 563
Measure chamber and setup sizing die to seat bullet .015 off.

Than i look on the interweb for what seems to be the most popular load for the bullet I want to seat and powder I want to use.

Then I use that.

Re: Load work up what do yall do? [Re: Mike Honcho] #6185045 02/16/16 01:25 AM
Joined: Nov 2007
Posts: 9,502
R
RiverRider Offline
THF Trophy Hunter
Offline
THF Trophy Hunter
R
Joined: Nov 2007
Posts: 9,502
Huh??


[Linked Image]

"Arguing with you always makes me thirsty."

-Augustus McRae
Re: Load work up what do yall do? [Re: RiverRider] #6185069 02/16/16 01:37 AM
Joined: Oct 2009
Posts: 563
R
rrflyer Offline
Tracker
Offline
Tracker
R
Joined: Oct 2009
Posts: 563
Originally Posted By: RiverRider
Huh??



It means I usually just copy what someone else's best load was and use that.

That and my last 3 barrels have been the same caliber.

After 600 or so rounds I'll re-measure the chamber and reset the seating die to get the bullet back where I want and maybe add 1/10 grain.

With a barrel that has a useful life of around 1000-1500 rounds I'm not gonna waste a whole bunch on load workup.

I hate load work up and I hate reloading.

Last edited by rrflyer; 02/16/16 01:40 AM.
Re: Load work up what do yall do? [Re: 603Country] #6185120 02/16/16 02:02 AM
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 41,085
J.G. Online Content
THF Celebrity
Online Content
THF Celebrity
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 41,085
Originally Posted By: 603Country
You weren't trying to be nice and you weren't funny. Just plain rude, and you know it. I notice that you get that way sometimes when you talk down to us ignorant mortals when we diverge from the approved 'fireman' method.


I really was not. When I am, you and everyone else that can read English will know it. Again, I'll not try to offer any help to you since you wear your feelings on your shoulder.

My suggestion is correct, though, accept that or not, your call.


[Linked Image]
800 Yard Steel Range
Precision Rifle Instruction
Memberships and Classes Available
Re: Load work up what do yall do? [Re: Mike Honcho] #6185124 02/16/16 02:04 AM
Joined: Aug 2009
Posts: 3,124
P
postoak Offline
Veteran Tracker
Offline
Veteran Tracker
P
Joined: Aug 2009
Posts: 3,124
I don't spend time trying to find the absolutely most accurate load out there. I am satisfied with 3/4 MOA at 100 yards for my hunting purposes. If I wind up with better than that then that's just gravy.

I will generally start with Sierra Game Kings as I think they're pretty accurate. Then, I pick the powder by seeing if one I use is loaded in that particular cartridge. Next I consult multiple sources looking for that powder behind a Game King. I'll back off some and work up to approximately factory ballistics.

For OAL, I do use the Hornady Lock-n-Load OAL gauge to determine what I want for OAL.

I modify this routine when I am going on a premium hunt by substituting some premium bullet.


Re: Load work up what do yall do? [Re: postoak] #6185156 02/16/16 02:20 AM
Joined: Apr 2013
Posts: 2,416
T
tenyearsgone Offline
Veteran Tracker
Offline
Veteran Tracker
T
Joined: Apr 2013
Posts: 2,416
Originally Posted By: postoak
I don't spend time trying to find the absolutely most accurate load out there. I am satisfied with 3/4 MOA at 100 yards for my hunting purposes. If I wind up with better than that then that's just gravy.

I will generally start with Sierra Game Kings as I think they're pretty accurate. Then, I pick the powder by seeing if one I use is loaded in that particular cartridge. Next I consult multiple sources looking for that powder behind a Game King. I'll back off some and work up to approximately factory ballistics.

For OAL, I do use the Hornady Lock-n-Load OAL gauge to determine what I want for OAL.

I modify this routine when I am going on a premium hunt by substituting some premium bullet.


I'm kind of like this (even using SGK bullets).

I want the fastest and most accurate round I can get so I simply load a few rounds at max load for several different powders and see which one is the most accurate. Once I got that narrowed down I may play with .1 increments down. I don't care to play around with .1 or .3 increments for multiple powders starting low. Way too time consuming for something that might be all for naught.

Re: Load work up what do yall do? [Re: Mike Honcho] #6185244 02/16/16 02:58 AM
Joined: Jul 2012
Posts: 15,606
6
603Country Online Content
THF Celebrity
Online Content
THF Celebrity
6
Joined: Jul 2012
Posts: 15,606
Fireman, I'll accept that you weren't trying to be a snot. But, do understand that I was not asking for your help, since I didn't need it. If I feel that I need help on something to do with forum topics, which I will from time to time do, I will clearly ask the forum.


Not my monkeys, not my circus...
Re: Load work up what do yall do? [Re: 603Country] #6185283 02/16/16 03:24 AM
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 41,085
J.G. Online Content
THF Celebrity
Online Content
THF Celebrity
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 41,085
OK, just thought it would improve your results. Some bullets are picky about their relationship to the lands, and can shoot much better when they are close, or in some cases, jammed up to five thousandths. And none of that has a single thing to do with SAAMI specs. Every rifle chamber is slightly different since we measure things in thousandths.

But, I won't offer anything you didn't ask for ever again.


[Linked Image]
800 Yard Steel Range
Precision Rifle Instruction
Memberships and Classes Available
Re: Load work up what do yall do? [Re: Mike Honcho] #6185360 02/16/16 04:29 AM
Joined: Jul 2012
Posts: 15,606
6
603Country Online Content
THF Celebrity
Online Content
THF Celebrity
6
Joined: Jul 2012
Posts: 15,606
I understand what you are saying, and agree with it. Note that only my Tikka 260 is loaded to factory spec, with the rest of the rifles just off the lands. That was the way I've always done it, just off the lands - for the past 30-ish years. I have come to believe, however, that it may be better in some cases to start with the Lyman or Nosler suggested length, work up your load and then tinker with minor variations in COAL. If that approach was terribly wrong, there'd never be a Weatherby that shot worth a darn - with the free bore.


Not my monkeys, not my circus...
Re: Load work up what do yall do? [Re: Mike Honcho] #6185470 02/16/16 11:36 AM
Joined: Nov 2007
Posts: 9,502
R
RiverRider Offline
THF Trophy Hunter
Offline
THF Trophy Hunter
R
Joined: Nov 2007
Posts: 9,502
I think that's as good an approach as any. I'd point out that many who have messed with Accubonds much at all often say that these bullets seem to like more jump than many others.


[Linked Image]

"Arguing with you always makes me thirsty."

-Augustus McRae
Re: Load work up what do yall do? [Re: RiverRider] #6185574 02/16/16 01:30 PM
Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 39,481
R
redchevy Offline
THF Celebrity
Offline
THF Celebrity
R
Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 39,481
Originally Posted By: RiverRider
I think that's as good an approach as any. I'd point out that many who have messed with Accubonds much at all often say that these bullets seem to like more jump than many others.


That's been my experience with partitions as well.


It's hell eatin em live
Re: Load work up what do yall do? [Re: Mike Honcho] #6185682 02/16/16 02:44 PM
Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 18,909
C
ChadTRG42 Online Happy
THF Celebrity
Online Happy
THF Celebrity
C
Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 18,909
It's interesting hearing how some shooters plan their loads. If a shooter picks 1 powder charge with 1 bullet and goes to shoot, how do you know this load will shoot well in YOUR rifle. You don't and it's a craps shoot just rolling the dice. Most cartridges have a sweet spot "window" where they shoot well. To get in this window, you have to load ammo in this area of the window to dial in your ammo, which usually takes several powder charges within this window. By doing this, you are tuning the ammo to your rifle. I see all the time guys "pick" a load like a craps shoot and are disappointed when it doesn't shoot well. The only thing they learned was this powder charge doesn't shoot well in their rifle, so in theory, you only know what 1 powder charge doesn't shoot well.

I've had several customers bring me a rifle and say, "Don't try this bullet, as it doesn't shoot well in my gun." So I tell them it's not the bullet that your rifle doesn't like, it's the load used with that bullet that your rifle doesn't like. Then they are amazed when we go with that bullet and I get it shooting really good out of their rifle.


[Linked Image]
Custom and Precision Ammunition!!
https://DallasReloads.com/
Type 01 and Type 06 FFL
Re: Load work up what do yall do? [Re: Mike Honcho] #6185690 02/16/16 02:49 PM
Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 18,909
C
ChadTRG42 Online Happy
THF Celebrity
Online Happy
THF Celebrity
C
Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 18,909
And a little note on seating depth. If it's a tangent ogive bullet, like almost all hunting bullets are, they will tolerate a jump just fine. Sierra Gamekings, Accubonds, SST, Interlocks, BTSP, Matchkings, Patritions, Ballitic Tips, all these bullets you can pick a seating depth off the lands and tune your ammo with the powder charge. Sure, some are a little more aggressive ogive than others, but all these above I seat to fit and function in the magazine first, and tune it with the powder. If accuracy is the goal, tuning the powder charge is the most important part of the ammo.


[Linked Image]
Custom and Precision Ammunition!!
https://DallasReloads.com/
Type 01 and Type 06 FFL
Page 1 of 2 1 2
Previous Thread
Index
Next Thread

© 2004-2024 OUTDOOR SITES NETWORK all rights reserved USA and Worldwide
Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.7.3